A realisation

[Associate of Daniel]

I twigged the other day, on why co parenting with my uNPD exH is impossible.

If I put forward an idea, or take the initiative on anything, he might be thinking that me bringing it up first shows a sign of weakness in him.  He therefore has to disagree with me in order to make himself look like the better parent.

If I disagree with something he puts forward, or if I accept it but with a request for a slight change, he takes it as a personal offence.  Therefore, he either refuses to change his original idea or puts forward an alternative to my requested alternative.

Mixed in with that is his annoying tone: Condescending and demanding.

Is it any wonder that I rarely request a change and that I rarely refuse any of his requests, which are many.

Oh, and let's not forget how he drags ds14 into the middle of it.  Both by having him plead with me to do what his uNPD father says, and by dressing up his (uNPD father's) idea as being "in the best interests of the child" and something really exciting and wonderful that he (ds) doesn't want to miss out on.

AOD

[athene1399]

I remember when we had to communicate with BM that she would rage if we did not do what she asked. I am not sure why she acted like that, I just know she was not happy if we didn't do exactly as she said. It is so stressful and difficult to deal with IMO. I am so sorry you are going through this. It is especially heartbreaking when the kids get pulled into the middle. 

[oak_tree]

Hi AOD,
That's a very interesting epiphany. I'm certainly seeing that dynamic with SO and his uNPD ex. And what's interesting is that SO and their two kids have been trained in this "what she says goes" mentality. Like you, they know the consequences of objecting. And presumably as a defence mechanism, the kids (well, DSD especially) convince themselves that what their BM says is what's right for them. SO is slowly un-learning, but it's a really tough road. I guess you have to pick your battles.
One example: when SO put his first Separation Agreement offer forward, I assumed BM would be celebrating. It was a ridiculously generous offer (SO's L kept saying "are you sure?!"), but she refused it and asked for way more. I guess that because she didn't come up with it, it had to be rejected, regardless of how good it was.
We're right with you, AOD.

[Associate of Daniel]

Classic case in point happening right now.

We'd arranged to meet at a certain place and time (in half an hour).

I came about 45 mins early in case ds14 wanted me to pick him up early.

I've now received a text from his uNPD smother telling me to meet at a different venue, literally about 50 metres away from the original agreed venue.

You can't make this stuff up.  smh.

AOD

I can see her car parked closer to the original venue!!!

[Associate of Daniel]

Never mind.  I'm spending the extra time sitting by the river, watching children feed the ducks and emjoying a cool breeze...

[sevenyears]

AOD - you described my Ex UNOCDP exactly. The other thing mine does is let me do all the research/work, and then object to it. Our DD needs to see an orthodontist, so I researched and got recommendations and then suggested two to him to choose from. He wouldn't because he doesn't know enough about them (ahem - do the research!! And go to a consultation!!). So, I chose one, and now he doesn't like that one.  This is a pattern with everything.

[Associate of Daniel]

Sevenyears, same here!!!!

Ds14 has on occasion over the years needed various "specialist" appointments.

One scenario:  I choose a practitioner, advise uNPD exH of the appointment day and time.  No response.

I take ds to appointment.  UNPD exH doesn't show up.

I email details of practitioners report to uNPD exH.  No response.

A week later, ds informs me that he has since been to see/is going to see a different practitioner.

Under the guise of a "2nd opinion".

The 2nd practitioner gives exactly the same report as the first but according to uNPD exH, the 2nd report is "better".

I've also tried the thing of researching and finding 3 practitioners/schools/whatever for uNPD exH to choose from.

Yeah. Na. That didn't work.

I've asked him to choose 3 for me to choose from.  He found one and told me that's who ds would see.  No discussion.

When I said no to that one (due to logistical difficulties and the resulting stress to ds, he found 2 more that were inappropriate.  One of them didn't even see children.

It's so infuriating and frustrating.  For both me and ds.

AOD

[Whiteheron]

Oh my yes to everything above.

On occasion I have been able to plant a seed and let uPDxh think something was his idea. That takes so much time and energy though. I just wish he would stop the PD control games.

One example is our drop off/pickup site. I had suggested a certain busy shopping plaza that goes by the name of the grocery store located in the plaza. He refused with no explanation and proposed several secluded out of the way options, which I refused citing safety concerns. He then decided the farm store at the farthest end of the plaza (about 100 yards away) was the best place to do the exchange.  In typical uPDxh form, he even texted me a birds eye view photo of the parking lot and circled the exact spaces where I was to park for the exchange. It was his idea, he was "in control" so he was ok with it. 

And yes - uPDxh also has me research things constantly, only to reject it as not being worth his time, or telling me it's no longer important. I do know that fun little trait isn't personal though, he's done it to his direct reports at work. He must be such a fun boss. 

[athene1399]

This is kind of a funny spin on things, when SD needed oral surgery, BM didn't want us picking the surgeon so she did. She asked us to call to make the appointment so I did. Then they told me we couldn't make the appointment because BM owed them money. So we let BM know we couldn't take SD there. So she got very upset with me for calling. The funny thing is, we were going to call someplace else. So the only reason we found out BM owed money was because she suggested the place. Lol