Following the Trigger Script Perfectly:

[IRedW77]

I'm not having a good moment right now, so I could use some feedback.

I'm sorry this post is long, but I wanted to lay out all the details.

I could just really use some neutral feedback:

I was eating lunch today while my wife was drinking coffee.

I had laid my plan out in advance that I was going to eat my food and then change my kid's diapers and put them down for naps. I had expressed this plan and been heard. I have a hard time making decisions and coming to plans and I've been making an effort to be more assertive and to stick to my plans.

I also staked out space for myself and my mental health to just have a quiet mealtime. It's hard at this point for me to set aside things for myself. I don't deserve anything that's about meeting my needs.

My wife got up before I was done and said she was going to change my daughter's diaper. I did not want her to do this and was upset when she got up and left to do it.

A. It was violating my plan.

B. We have been having trouble with our daughter this week and having major drama over diaper changes at nap time.

C. I could see the potential for drama and I asked my wife to just stop if it looked like drama was about to ensue because I just wanted to finish my meal.

Our daughter started running around as soon as she was asked to go lay down for her diaper change. My wife kept her cool with our daughter and just let her go for the moment. This ostensibly complied with what I had asked, but I was still already tense from the situation.

She sat back down next to me and vented her frustration with my daughter. She said, "if this is what she's going to do then we're done with diapers and she's just going to have to potty train".

We have been advised to take a break from pushing the potty training by our pediatrician. He wants our daughter to initiate the process of possible.

My wife has been too gung-ho, and I have been too resistant to the idea. I'm not ready for potty training. I wish we could just stick to diapers indefinitely because I don't want to deal with all the change involved. Also, most of the work and disruption of potty training will fall on me.

So, my wife made an absolute statement in a frustrated tone about my daughter (but also about me making major changes that I'm resistant to).

I immediately reacted and yelled at her that "I just wanted to have my lunch, I told you that!" She got up angrily and told me I was acting like a child, which I was, but...

I'm just starting to learn about C-PTSD and what my triggers are and working to avoid episodes of emotional flashbacks.

A small part of me saw the potential in this situation the second my wife got up, and I tried to warn her not to set me off. I didn't even clearly understand that was what I was trying to prevent and I didn't put it in those terms.

I tried to prevent the very foreseeable event of my daughter causing drama that I wasn't in a mind frame to deal with.

I did not foresee my wife PERFECTLY enacting something that would trigger me. Perfect tone, perfect type of statement, and perfect content to completely trigger me. I foresaw my daughter's behavior, and some drama between her and my wife, but not that.

We talked it through some, and she understands what happened for me and apologized. I apologized for losing it on her.

My wife said she could see how the diaper with my daughter would go and wanted to get it over with and that's why she got up in the first place.

From there I feel like she put something in my path that derailed my plans for the rest of the day. I feel that I now need to revisit potty training and figure out a new plan for that instead of the plans I had to work some ideas on how to do more things for myself and take better care of myself (plans my wife was unaware of).

My inner critic is yelling at me both to derail me and for being derailed. My outer critic is yelling at my wife for derailing me. And my inner critic is yelling again at me for letting my outer critic blame my wife.

Before I could really talk the whole thing out my wife had to go to an appointment she had scheduled. This nicely fulfilled the abandonment/rejection part of my script. Now I don't want to finish talking about it and it's buried in the back of my brain as far as talking to her.

How is this all possible?

Is my unconscious really THIS GOOD at setting up these situations to play out my trigger script?

I had an inkling of foreseeing something, but it went beyond what I had consciously imagined.

In general my wife have a great marriage. We have great communication, and we always work everything out. However, I feel like we're both uniquely gifted at setting each other off and fulfilling scripts like this for each other.

Seeing this all recently is the only thing that's ever made me worry about our otherwise great marriage.

Did I orchestrate this?

Did my wife orchestrate this?

Was it just perfect bad luck?

Did we do it together somehow?

[Andeza]

I'm not sure how long you've been married. Dh and I have 9 years coming up this month.  And I swear he knows the right buttons to push every time. I think it's a side effect of being married to a degree. I don't think there was any intent etc in your situation, from either of you. But it sure does feel that way sometimes.

I feel your anxiety over potty training. Kiddo is approaching that stage, but since I'm home with him, I've already decided we're going to let him lead and essentially let us know when he's ready. Sil did that with her kid and it was way less painful than the stories other people have told me. There are a ton of excellent resources online that might help with your anxiety, I know they helped with mine!

As for working on plans, I think it's important to remember that there is always the possibility that the plan may have to shift. This is normal.

I believe you do need to take time for yourself, and do things for yourself. These things are not only for your benefit, but for your family. When you are refreshed and chill they benefit from that frame of mind.

Be kind to yourself. In your words...I could be wrong, but I feel like you're coming down on yourself very hard. Very hard. All of this, the recovery, the growing, it takes time. And that's okay. And there will be bad days, and good days, and that's normal.

[IRedW77]

Thanks Andeza

I really needed to hear some of that.

I've been on the boards a lot trying to help other people (which I know isn't always healthy either). I've also posted a bunch of things I wanted to discuss and learn about, but today I really felt like I was triggered and could use some help.

My daughter asked me twice today, "Daddy, are you happy?"  Both times I answered, "Daddy's ok." It breaks my heart that she saw me struggling.

So thank you

We haven't been married as long as you, but we've been together a similar amount of time.

This has been hard for me. I'm still at the seeing everything and figuring out how everything works before I can really fix it stage.

I'm completely sick of thinking, talking about, and being myself (whoever that actually is). Also, I feel guilty for talking about my own sh** every day and know that she's legitimately sick of hearing about it on some level.

I've always been aware that my wife is high-strung and that she loses her cool too easily—and that her propensity to lose her patience is familiar. It's something my wife has worked on a lot in the years we've been together and made a lot of progress on, but she still has a gift for triggering me with her temperament.

Just seeing what I've set myself up for is upsetting and disturbing for me. I also started to see ways in which I'm very well suited to re-enacting her childhood issues once I began looking at everything.

I appreciate that's what people do. And I know we've both worked incredibly hard on our relationship over the years and have always had amazing communication. If I'm being optimistic, we actually provide each other amazing balance for two unbalanced people.
It's just scary to see the bad side as well.

I'm also in a weird place where I can't trust my own mind. I'm aware of the inner and outer critic now, and that framework makes amazing sense for me. However, I can't always tell who's actually talking in my head or what opinions are valid anymore.

As far as the potty training, I think it's just inherently stressful. My wife deals with that by exerting a lot of pressure to get it all done now, now, now. That's just how she is with her anxiety. I was very relieved when the pediatrician advised us to just let our daughter come to it on her own.

I'm not ready for it. My wife told me today that she's worried our daughter might be picking up on that, and she might. At the same time it's obvious that my wife is struggling with mentally biting her tongue.

It's hard for me because I don't do well with change in general. It's also hard because I have a majorly hard time with structure, and that's something kids need a ton of.

It's not something that was modeled well for me. I also have the issues with time management and organization inherent in ADHD.

It takes a lot out of me to give them what structure they have now, and potty training will clearly blow my routines all to hell.

As far as plans, I'm just working on decisiveness. I have major problems with indecision. I've realized through this that a lot of that is self-doubt. I'm also aware that I can be easily pushed into abandoning my plans—even when I know that's a mistake. I'm trying to be confident enough to make plans and not second guess them or let them be derailed.

I am very hard on myself. It's somewhat validating to have you pick up on that without me saying anything.

I'm hearing those critical voices now as something separate from myself, but they're loud (especially when I'm triggered) and there really isn't much of anything in terms of counter programming to listen to. I realize I need to create that, but it feels too embarrassing to do it.

I've managed everything better today than I historically have, and I almost stopped it happening in the first place. I see it all now, and that helps, but yes, big journey ahead.

Thank you again for reading my long message and giving me support. It helped.

[1footouttadefog]

Wow, its been a while but I can remember the stresses surrounding potty training.

My spouse came from a very pd family. Better yet they were 2-3 generations older than I am.  They of course all had kids walking at 10 months and talking at a year and reading and quoting shakespear at three etc etc.  So potty training was an issue from one year of age and on.  External pressure and fake histories and all that.  Enough to make you cringe everytime you saw a droopy diaper.  Lol

I always had faith in my kids that it would al work out.  There was still a sort of messy bunch of emotions in tue back of my mind however and my pdh was especially vulnerable to the outside opinions and wanted to push things. 

I would tell him her fiance could finish where we failed with potty training. Lol

If your marriage is otherwise a good ine and if your child has developed normally otherwise, make a family pact to disregard the outside messages and enjoy your child.  Maybe even talk candidly about your feeling sand where they come from regarding this.

My kids both trained to the potty chair reasonably quickly for uninating but the poop issue drug on and on.  Mercy.  We resorted to bribery ajd it worked like a charm.  I put the potty sest in tue hallway the prize of a shiney foily bag od skoopy doo fruit chewies high on the wall with a push pin. They were all hers if she would leave a poop in that potty.  After that we awarded the smaller lunch box sized skooby chewies bags. Then later let her have two out of a container.

We came to the same stopping point with the youngest and used another prize and smaller prizes afterwards. 

Some would call me a failure for using bribes but neither of my college kids wear diapers, and neither has ever had a dental cavity   

I write all this to say, yes you are triggering each other but there are external pressures at play here so award each other that extra measure of mercy, and take a step back and regroup as needed.  You are not alone, and much of this may be normal parenting whether or not there is a pd person involved.

[Phoenix Rising]

I don't have too much time to write at the moment but I wanted to let you know that you aren't alone with this. This is no one's "fault".. being married comes with some things that are just not present in other kinds of relationships. You know the other more intimately and yes, they tend to know how to set us off. And it's often not done maliciously in the way that abusers from our past have eroded boundaries. The potty training stage can be so testing of us as parents. So can be making all these connections and realizations about ourselves in relation to CPTSD and trauma and wanted to change things right away before taking a breath. It's a lot to work through.

My kids are much older now but I remember potty training being quite stressful. I learned to follow their lead and to try to not make it stressful for them. Keep my composure as much as possible, watch for signs of interest and act accordingly. If it's OK to share... Something that worked for both of them (when they started showing interest) was to make observations on the times they had bowel movements and place them on the potty around those times.. They would face backwards and had some cars to run along. I found that they really responded to a reward system as well. In fact, the reward system and token economy systems are still useful for them today.

In some of your posts, I am reminded much of myself. I don't say this to be mean (I'm feeling so worried about offending you, yay anxiety and CPTSD).. I say this because I too am incredibly hard on myself and I think A LOT about all scenarios and what *I* could/should have done and a lot of self-doubt over what I do. This is because of all the programming by abusers during my lifetime and the survival mechanisms that I've had to use to get through it. I know how hard it can be to believe and to say, but make time for you. You deserve it. Be kind to yourself. Even if it's one thing you do each day to start. Build on that. The self-discovery right now is a process and while it may feel like there is a rush to know everything and fix everything right away, it is still process. Rome was not built in one day. You are allowed to assert your needs and remind anyone that the needs/boundaries are there. You have the right to walk away to calm down or to think things out.

I assume that your wife loves you, continue to open up to her. Have that uncomfortable discussion, lean on her and keep on that good communication. I know it can be difficult when I feel confusion, embarrassment and shame over things that happen when I am triggered or have a flashback (and my husband or other people witness it). We have survived a lot and no one is perfect. We work toward improving ourselves and caring for ourselves.

[IRedW77]

In some of your posts, I am reminded much of myself. I don't say this to be mean (I'm feeling so worried about offending you, yay anxiety and CPTSD).. I say this because I too am incredibly hard on myself and I think A LOT about all scenarios and what *I* could/should have done and a lot of self-doubt over what I do.

It's so funny to hear you talk about that specifically.

I pretty much NEVER get offended by anything someone else says. I get hurt and feel rejected at the drop of a hat, but never offended.

Maybe if I'm that hard to offend then everyone else is too.

But yes, that fear of saying the wrong thing lives large at all times.

Some of that is being raised by parents with no social skills that didn't teach us any social skills. We have all those painful memories of having to learn basic social graces the hard way every time. Some of that is being constantly abandoned, rejected, dismissed, and generally neglected.

I read rejection into everything.

My friend only calls me two or three times a year, so they must not like me much. We didn't get their Christmas card, that must be intentional because we're no longer worth wasting a stamp on. We didn't get invited to something we would have loved to do and there are pictures of them with other friends on Facebook. They obviously didn't want us there because we're such a burden to have around.

I'm also super sensitive to everything my wife says and does at a party because I'm paranoid that she might get us rejected too.

I can't continue telling my wife about something that's bothering me because the kids are being too loud to talk. We agree to give up for now, but to me that's rejection. Whatever I urgently wanted to talk about immediately recedes in my mind. It's not important anymore. I don't deserve to be heard.

I have to actively dredge it back into my consciousness when it is finally time to talk about it. I no longer want to talk about it and feel guilty when I do.

Beating yourself up is a lot of work. I sometimes wonder if it's worth the effort 

I also definitely rehash what I could have/should have said for a long time. I'm perpetually retroactively embarrassed for who I was 6 months or 6 years or whenever long ago. I'm embarrassed by everything I ever said or did like a kid when I was a kid.

As far as self doubt, I justify everything I do and the way I've chosen to do it down to minute details in case I ever need to explain it I guess.

If I figure out a certain way to do a routine task I invest a ton of mental energy in perfecting it. Then I understand exactly what I'm doing, how I'm doing it, and why I'm doing it that way, so I don't have to think about it anymore. 

Do not get me started on decision making...

It's good to hear you and others say not to rush myself. That implies to me that it's normal to want to try to fix everything all at once right now yesterday.

As far as self care and feeling like I deserve that, it's hard. I have two very young kids and I'm supposed to drop whatever I'm doing whenever it's physically possible to meet their needs. My wife works full time and helps with the kids, so I need to make sure she's properly supported so she can help support me and the kids.

It's just easier and more natural to try to take care of anyone else first. I am trying to take care of myself here and there, but I still feel guilty every time. Also, if I get derailed from trying to take care of myself I feel like it was foolish to try to.

I also feel like I'm whining here and being overly dramatic. I don't know how you separate out the voices of the critics. More accurately maybe I don't know what MY voice sounds like, so I don't know when I'm hearing it.

When I write these posts, all I want to say is "wow, I'm really a mess, huh?"

I'll close with sorry (in case), and thanks. 

[SparkStillLit]

It's hard when there's outside drama, and internal issues, and....well. It's just hard. Remember to be nice to yourself. Treat yourself how you might treat someone on here. You deserve it just as much.
Regarding potty training. Such to do about nothing!!!!! Don't let other people's nattering get in your ear. Your pedi has got the right of it. Let your kid lead the way, don't get all excited about it, it will happen. Nobody goes to high school in diapers. We did different things. My DD was most freaked out about flushing and using the big toilet, so we had a little potty chair that I did disposal for when she was out of the room. In FACT, she remained kind of funny about pooping other than at home until now that she's in the military!!!!! DS began with peeing outside like Dad (SIIIIIGGGGHHHHHH. We lived very rurally. ) One day he asked if he could "poop on the rocks" and I said "NO. GET IN HERE AND USE THE TOILET LIKE CIVILIZED PEOPLE!!!" and that was pretty much that. DS LOVED to use EVERY. SINGLE. BATHROOM. wherever we went.
For him, we had a little seat that fitted over the big seat, and a step stool.
It was all fairly...smooth. Not much stress, NO yelling. I tried bribery in the beginning with DD but it didn't really work. I stopped and waited for her lead.

[IRedW77]

Thanks SSL.

I hope it's that simple. DD is very stubborn. She's SO much like me in a lot of ways, but that particular trait comes from both her parents so it's overwhelming. She was in Early Intervention if you have that or know what that is. It's basically PT or OT or speech therapy or whatever kids under 3 need if they have developmental delays.

DD has a minor connective tissue disorder that causes hyper-flexibility. Up until age 2 or so her comfy going to sleep position was with both her arms folded behind her back. She learned to sit herself up by putting her hands together behind her back and pushing up. If you take your arm and stretch it behind your back to reach the highest spot you can reach, that was her comfy sleeping position. Her elbows looked like they bent the opposite way (and actually kind of do if she wants them to).

Anyway, because of this she had great difficulty learning to walk, so she got EI. The 20 year vet that supervised her regular therapist said that my daughter was the most willful child she'd dealt with in her entire career. It is me that she's most like, so I can't help being perversely proud of that. She's so stubborn that she gets in her own way. She's also overly cautious and can be fearful outside her comfort zone.

If she can't do something HER own way she won't do it. MIL got the kids a Gator (electric ride on car thing) for their birthdays. I showed her how to use the reverse to back up. She insisted on getting out and pushing this thing that is bigger and weighs twice as much as she does instead of just using reverse. That is 110% my child.

We have legitimate reasons to be fearful about potty training, but it's still encouraging to hear everyone say it's not really going to be that bad.

The good news for us is that when she does actually start potty training that baby brother will get trained for free. He follows her around and does EVERYTHING she does. When he was an infant he'd watch her much more than us.

She taught him to talk. When he was saying his first words my wife and I would hear him say something and get excited and try to get him to say it again. He'd just stare at us. My daughter would say "brother, say X" and he'd do it every time.

[SparkStillLit]

That might be challenging, yes. Still, though, they take a cue from you, so try to be as nonchalant as possible. It is just a regular part of human development and not the aliens taking over like modern society makes it out to be. Parents have enough stress. My DD is also ridiculously stubborn and clever and velociraptors her way out of things she doesn't care for. It was always best to let her think things were her idea (even if they weren't, you know, "do you want to wear your red coat or your black one?"). It might be more work than some, but be calm, be gentle. It will happen.

[1footouttadefog]

I used to replay things alot and worry about what was said and done and how I would answer if questioned etc etc.

Then as I learned more about pds and how my interactions with them varied from thise with none, I saw that much of this was my trying to please or be ready to JADE for the sale of a narc or other pd.

Later as I separated from some and disengaged emotionally from other pds in my life, I was able to see that this mental and emotional tumbler in my head was not necessary with nons.

All that to say, I spend less time with ods, and there fore spend less time preparing and staying in the ready to interact with them. Its freeing and less mentally and emotionally exhausting to be sure.

Now if I feel that stuff going on in my thoughts and feelings after meeting and interacting with someone new, I see it as a red flag and proceed with caution.