Demand for list of what they did wrong - typical Pd request?

[Sidney37]

For those who don't know my background, I've been NC for almost a year and VLC for a year before that.  The issue that still leaves me in the FOG and unsettled was the insistence that I provide a list of what she has done because she has "no idea".   

We had provided a list of visit boundaries a few years before.  Sometimes she managed to keep up with them.  The last visit before LC, she didn't.   

I didn't give her a list when she insisted on it almost 2 years ago.  Now a year later, I'm still wondering if they truly don't know and if a list would have prevented the smear campaign? Does anybody have examples of how it helped or hurt to provide the list?

[GettingOOTF]

Sidney37 have you read this?

http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/why-estranged-parents-forums.html

I found it very helpful in understanding the situation with my estrangement and why my father refuses to “understand”. I have explained countless times in countless ways over the years. It’s not about giving them a list or explaining. Then simply won’t or can’t hear you.

[JustKathy]

I think they know. My guess is that they want you to put things in writing so they can pass the list around and use it against you.

When I went NC with my Nmother, she had spent years acting like she had amnesia and couldn't remember things that had happened to me as a teenager and in the decade after I left home. I asked my therapist if this amnesia could be real, and my T said that narcissists are so convincing there was no way to tell. On the last phone call I had with Nmother, I called her out on all of her bad behavior and she went infantile, crying like a baby and pretending she had blacked out everything and didn't know what I was talking about. I told her I never wanted to talk to her again and hung up. A few weeks later, I guess she realized that I was serious, so she sent a four-page screed that ripped me for everything I had done to hurt her, all events that had happened during the years when she allegedly had amnesia. She remembered every single detail of every incident of abuse. In the case of my enFather, it really does seem like he doesn't understand why I went NC. But my Nmother knew.

My advice would be to ignore the request for this list, especially if she's asking for it in writing. It will end up being weaponized; held up as proof that you're troubled/unstable/vidictive and making false accusations. I also doubt that sending the list earlier would have prevented the smear campaign. If anything, it would have been the opposite. It would have been used in the smear campaign. Poor Nmom would have proof that she was being victimized by your lies, lies that you took the time to write down in a list.

If your mother is anything like mine, she knows what she did and is setting a trap. Be careful not to fall for it.

[JustKathy]

http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/why-estranged-parents-forums.html

Wow, GettingOOTF, that article is excellent. Thank you for sharing it.

[GettingOOTF]

http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/why-estranged-parents-forums.html

Wow, GettingOOTF, that article is excellent. Thank you for sharing it.

Yes it's really great. Someone posted it here a while ago. I bookmarked it and go back to it occasionally. It's so helpful to me.

[SunnyMeadow]

Very typical request from a PD person! My uNPDmother has done this to me, and to others. She wants it in written form too so she can nitpick each and every item on the list. She will send a HUGE reply to negate everything said and throw in a bunch of (made up) horrid things that have been done to her.

When my mother asks me to list out all she's done wrong, I say no. I'm not giving her anymore ammunition to put me down.

[moglow]

Familiar to me too - mine would indeed nitpick down the list, shooting holes wherever it suited her. She'd likely focus on wording rather than facts, call me out on petty details she felt were important in order to excuse her behavior.

Then there'd be the "you never mentioned xyz before ..." and "you have a vivid imagination, that's not the way xyz happened at all..." Or even "you didn't mention xyz from the last list, guess you finally admit it never happened the way you claimed." You know, discount anything she could and thereby discount the list as a whole.
And yes, provide an actual list and she'd share it with any and everyone, only not mention that she demanded said list. It'd be another opportunity to play victim for her.

In a nutshell, that's a lose-lose situation she's setting up and you'd be better to not participate at all. A list just provides ammo for a new and expanded smear campaign, twistung and turning your words against you.

[Deb2]

My dBPDsister demanded this from one of her Adult children. When that child complied with a short list, it was then used as a means to attack that child. Horribly attack that child. It's a trap. Don't fall for it.

[Janeite V]

I fell for this once. It didn't go well. Despite all of the evidence to the contrary, I wanted to believe that perhaps the request was sincere and that we would finally work towards improving our relationship. It wasn't sincere. John Emerson's poem on narc-pologies sums up my experience:

    A Narcissist's Prayer

    That didn't happen.

    And if it did, it wasn't that bad.

    And if it was, that's not a big deal.

    And if it is, that's not my fault.

    And if it was, I didn't mean it.

    And if I did...

    You deserved it.

[TwentyTwenty]

Here is my 'list'...

It is my decision alone who I choose to interact with in my life.

I choose not to interact with you.

Because.

If I ever decide that I wish to interact with you, I will contact you. Do not contact me.

So, now you have my list of reasonable boundaries.


Aside from this, as mentioned in other posts here, a list is just an argumentative checklist that they can twist to prove that they are right, and hold you accountable to.

The more information that you give a narcissist, the more you will regret it.

[Maxtrem]

My doctor has already mentioned it to me; these people don't consider that they are doing anything wrong. Writing them a letter = a great waste of time and energy. Especially since they are very manipulative and will turn everything against us. Moreover, the writings remain and they will present this letter to everyone to show what a bad and ungrateful child you are. My uBPD/Nm every time she says hurtful monstrosities or goes too far, she always ends up saying: but I wasn't well, it's normal that someone who is not well says hurtful things... And she also likes to play with amnesia! Sometimes she says how her brother said mean things to her when she was so nice and polite to him and how she is a victim. In fact, she has been obnoxious with her brother (he was the scapegoat in the family became an alcoholic and drug addict, yes he is a loser but he is basically not a bad person).

For me it would even be difficult to write a precise letter since I do dissociation and a lot remains unclear and I know that many of us do it here! On the other hand, a Narc will not miss a single detail. My father (he's not PD) recently mentioned to me how my uBPD/Nm would have a phenomenal memory for past events, it's not that she has a good memory it's that she reinvents everything that happened in her favor when everyone else has forgotten!

[Honey_B]

I was LC with my mother for several years. Now I went completely NC.
She has been forever baiting me to communicate with her in writing, so we could "sort out our problems" ("our" problems  )

I did not fall for it. My sister did and everything she wrote to my mother has been passed around to family to show what an ungrateful daughter she was.

The writing is clearly a sign that she has ulterior motives.

I would have a verbal conversation with my mother IF she was able to listen and make an affort to understand my experiences. IF she was able to just listen without justifying herself, interrupting or raging against me. But she is not able to do that, ever, so we simply can't have a relationship.

[tigerstripedsky]

I also provided a list a few times and was met with exactly what Janeite V mentioned with A Narcissist's Prayer. One thing I did do was write a list for myself. I found this helpful because part of me always wants a different ending which makes upholding boundaries difficult. The list is kind of a reality check when I doubt myself.

[Fortuna]

It's very common. I had more than my fair share of talks before we went no contact to 'hash things out' where I told her what bothered me with her behavior and attitude. Then a whole bunch of DARVO happened, and nothing changed other than that we set yet more boundaries. I've been pretty careful to make sure I don't read anything she sends me, but I'd bet real money that the first let had something along the lines of "I don't know why/don't know what/ didn't know ho bad things had gotten..." I think some of the problem is the horrid behaviors that keep us up at night are just how they treat people, so to us it's a major life event and to them it's just a Tuesday. THe rest of the problem is, since they can't be wrong they want the list to invalidate each and every item to prove they are right.

[Sidney37]

I read this a few years ago.  Thank you for posting it.  I needed the reminder. 

Sidney37 have you read this?

http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/why-estranged-parents-forums.html

I found it very helpful in understanding the situation with my estrangement and why my father refuses to "understand". I have explained countless times in countless ways over the years. It's not about giving them a list or explaining. Then simply won't or can't hear you.

[Sidney37]

Thanks everyone.  I kept telling myself that the list wasn't going to help, but now a year NC, the holidays, COVID social distancing (and very lonely) and stuck in my house for much too long had me wondering if it was the right decision.  Did they really know why?  I didn't explicitly tell them.  I've explicitly told relatives who have asked.  My dad has been told why.  He is still married to and lives with my mother.  He could have told her.   They insist her non-apology that just blamed others and me was an apology and that I should just forget about everything and go back to how things were.   

I wrote an 8 page letter than I never sent last year.   For a short time I thought about sending it, but deep down I knew not to and I'm glad I didn't.  WOW to the Narcissists Prayer.  That says it all, doesn't it?  Just Wow. 

[Justme729]

In addition to what others said about they can't or won't hear the list....they use it as ammo to hurt you.  My moms favorite is saying that never happened and that we are stuck in the past. 

[Kiki81]

The only thing PDs need is to keep you participating, (enmeshed). They fear you dropping the rope because when you do that, it's over for them.

That's why there's a lot of "Let's talk about this," " Tell us what we did! " and rugsweeping.  Gotta keep ya on the hook.