Checklist

[Prototypian]

I've been here a long time.   I am looking for a checklist for leaving.   At first i wanted to avoid any crises and or horror stories.   But now I truly want to be happy.   I'm so tired of anger and violent behavior and worst case scenarios.  I have blessings; money, family, a place to live and support.   I just dont have the strength to deal.aoth the FOG.   How do I stand against that?

[Poison Ivy]

When you say a checklist for leaving, do you mean "how to leave" or "reasons to leave" or something else?

[pushit]

Like Poison Ivy I'm a little confused by your post, not sure what kind of checklist you're looking for.  There are certain things to get in order prior to filing, there are things to brace yourself for (accusations of abuse, alcoholism, etc).  We can help you with checklists for those, but...based on your last sentence, I'm assuming you're asking for some tips and tricks for how to deal with the FOG once you file. 

Here's the best checklist I can come up with for that.

1. Time
2. Space

Honestly, you will deal with a lot of garbage once you file.  Accusations, loss of friendships, attempts to turn the kids/friends/neighbors/family against you.  The best advice I can give is be strong and stop giving even one damn about what others think of you.  Keep your eye on the prize and forget about everyone except you and the kids. 

For me, the first 4 months after I filed were a living hell.  I lost a lot of friends, doubted myself A LOT, and struggled to retain my sanity while dealing with my ex and her lawyer and young kids acting out because of what they were going through.  But I would do it all again to get to where I am (we are) today.  I wake up every morning with a smile and positive thoughts about my future.  My kids are full of life, jokes and laughter like never before.  The FOG will fade bit by bit over time, and with limited communication with the problem maker.  You just need to create the separation and stick to it.

[notrightinthehead]

Js from what you have told us, you live in constant fear. While you might not be in fear of physical abuse,  you live in fear of just about all other abuse we can think of.  What would you tell a dear friend who lives in constant fear?  Your answer does not lie in more advice.  Your answer is to follow that advice. Feal the fear and do it anyway.

[Free2Bme]

As you said, it takes strength to stay in the FOG.  It takes exponentially more energy to stay in these types of situations.  I was so weak, scared, exhausted when married/divorcing my updH.  Just trying to survive the day to day.

When immersed in this type of relationship it's hard to fully gauge how far I had drifted away from myself  Things I enjoy; smiling, lightness of heart, spiritual connection, peaceful sleep, true relaxation, laughter, singing, hope, creativity, ...these things returned, and much faster than I would ever have imagined.  This gives new strength to handle life's challenges.  I am not the mentally/emotionally anemic person I was in my abusive marriage, and didn't realize it until I had time and distance.

Is all the strength you are expending resulting in something beneficial for anyone?

Sometimes good medicine tastes terrible, but the end result is healing and quality of life. 

Make a simple checklist.

[GettingOOTF]

My check list was just to leave but I don't have kids. Hopefully someone with kids will chime in. The lists I've read from people who leave abusive situations with kids usually include things like birth certificates, getting the kids rooms ready etc. I'd also consult with an attorney. I left and then later consulted with attorney. I didn't tell my ex I wanted a divorce until I had the papers drawn up and ready to go. If I were to do to again I'd get the best attorney I could and serve my ex ASAP.

[Prototypian]

I can cover myself emotionally.   I have friends, foot and support.   What I seem to be looking for is a "what to do" list like a checklist.   If I'm taking a trip somewhere I make a list of what to take, what to pack, times, dates, steps, schedules, things I need.    I once had an appointment with a counselor who helps people in PD relationships get away or change things.   Unfortunately I rescheduled with her twice to avoid my wife knowing and didn't get to meet with her and she dropped me.  I had hoped that her plans and work would be the steps I'm looking for.   I want to do the following:. 1) prevent any upheaval with my kids, 2) have a very minimum amount of reaction from my spouse and 3 make this go as fast as possible.   But I'm finding it's easier to start a new company or buy a building than to do those things.

[Poison Ivy]

It is unlikely that you can prevent upheaval for your children. But based on what you've told us about your situation, I think the changes for your children will be for the good.

Similarly, it is unlikely that your wife will not react or will have a minimal reaction. But that's her business, not yours.

That said, here are some tips based on my experience: 1) If at all possible, break the news to your children when you are with them and they are with each other. I was not able to do this because my children are adults and live out of state in separate locations. What I did instead was to call them in turn on the same afternoon and tell them that I either had just talked to the sibling or that I would be talking to the sibling momentarily.
2) Some experts recommend that both parents be in on the breaking-the-news conversation to the children. I was not living with my spouse after I filed for divorce because he had left years earlier (to take care of his elderly parents). I think it was okay that I broke the news to our children without my spouse.
3) Accept that your children will have their own reactions. Support and console them as necessary, but avoid telling them how to react and how to feel.
4) Accept that your wife will have her own reaction. Try to not get into conversations about feelings with her. Save your energy for the conversations about the mechanics of the divorce.
5) Before you file, make copies of all vital documents, whether paper or online: birth certificates, financial account statements, marriage certificate, property records, passports, health insurance, credit card statements, etc. If you have any concern about your wife destroying documents or records, you keep the originals and be prepared to let her know that you have made copies and will give her the copies.
6) Decide whether you want to hire a lawyer to represent you during the divorce.
7) Whether or not you decide to hire a lawyer, do some research about your state's divorce laws. It's helpful to be aware of the typical procedures and timeline.
8) If you don't have one already, open your own bank account.

[Stillirise]

 

After following your situation, I would highly recommend you hire an attorney, maybe even before you tell your wife and children of your plans.  That way, you have that buffer person, who knows what they are doing, to handle the mechanics.  That may help take some of the anxiety off you, and even strengthen your resolve.

For your reference, my steps were:
1. Gathered documents, made a spreadsheet of assets
2. Met lawyer, and handed over documents
3. Lawyer drew up divorce paperwork for me to look over.
     It then sat on her desk for months—I don't advise that one!
4.  I made plans for an extended trip with just the kids
5. I called the lawyer, told her to dust off the paperwork, and then I actually signed.
6. The next morning, I left town with the kids. Once I was an hour out, I stepped away from the kids, and called stbx.  I told him what was happening.  Reaction was as expected from a PD.
7.  I told the children later the same day.  I really believed it was impossible to do the sit down together thing in my case.

I had a strong fear for my personal safety, which ultimately overrode the cowardly feeling of calling stbx up, and telling him over the phone.  Your checklist will be unique to you.

[GettingOOTF]

Honestly you have no control over 1 and 2. Especially 2. For 3 the best way to get it over as quickly as possible is to work with an attorney and to remove yourself from feeling any responsibility for your wife's reaction.

We can plan and make all the lists we want but at some point we have to take action. I spent years wanting to leave and trying all sorts of things to avoid the hard parts.  It's true that the only way is through.

They don't magically become supportive, reasonable and rational people when we leave. They actually become worse as their worst fears have been realized and they are desperate.

I went through hell when I left. There are stories I won't even tell my therapist or detail here. My ex should be in jail for some of what he did to me. Every single second of it was worth it for the life I have now.

[pushit]

I will echo what GettingOOTF wrote and add some.  #1 and #2 will be whatever they're going to be and you can't do anything about it.  For #1, just let the kids react and be there for them.  You don't have to be perfect, there is no way to be a perfect parent during this time.  Just be as emotionally stable as you can and be a rock for them.  To hopefully give you some comfort on how to break it to the kids, I'll say it can't get worse than how I had to do it.  I never even got the chance to talk to them about it until a week after I left.  You've read my Annie Wilkes Misery-style story of my ex waking me up at 3am and threatening me.  I left the next morning, she got served, and my kids came home to a house with Dad gone.  I hated doing that to them, but everything has worked out fine.  All it took was me remaining in their lives and wanting to spend time with them, they probably don't even remember that dramatic day now.  #2 - Just let her react however she wants, and don't feel or take any responsibility for it.  I think you absolutely should hire a lawyer, for reasons #2 and #3.  My lawyer acted as a huge buffer to my ex during the process, I can't begin to describe how helpful that was.  Instead of trying to negotiate things with my ex, all I had to do was talk to him.  It became my ex's attorney's job to reason with her, I'm sure that was not an easy task.  Having a lawyer involved helps immensely with #3, they know the process and how to move things along.

For a checklist:
1.  Copies of documents - But don't stress if you can't find them all, the courts will force the other side to provide them if necessary.
2.  At the beginning of the divorce process you should recommend therapy for the kids.  It's not a silver bullet, but it gives the kids a space to talk about things which helps them process it.  It also helps you to come across as a parent that cares about the emotional well being of the kids (because you do).
3.  Open your own bank account and have all your income routed there instead of the joint accounts.

That's about all I did.  I packed up that morning with a week's worth of clothes, my computer, and a few items that I didn't want her to throw in the lake.  Ten days later I moved into a rental house and through our attorneys we agreed to sell our home and split our belongings.  Five months later, divorce finalized.  Less than a year after leaving, I became a homeowner again and the peace in my house is deafening at times but I wouldn't trade it for the world.

I want to go back to item #2 real quick.  Expect her to explode, just like my exPDw did.  My exPDw threw every accusation at the wall to see if it would stick.  I didn't even realize it at the time, but having a lawyer to buffer that and deliver the information to me in a sensical manner was such a gift.  I had to respond to her accusations, but my lawyer knew what would fly with the courts and what wouldn't.  For about six weeks the noise I dealt with was crazy, but it slowly got quieter.  While I was freaked out about it, he knew that nothing she said would stick unless she had some proof, which of course she didn't because it never happened.  It ended up working to my benefit.  The more she shouted and it didn't work, the crazier her accusations became.  Ultimately, her lawyer steered her hard towards a settlement at mediation, and I got everything I wanted (a fair split of things).  So when it comes to your concern #2, remember that the best thing you can do is sit back and let the PD expose themselves to everyone else.  You don't have to react and justify your actions, let them do their thing and let other people witness it and make their own decision.

So, that's my sort-of checklist for you.  The reality is no amount of lists and preparation will make it all go smoothly.  Sometimes you have to walk to the edge of the 10m platform and jump.  But trust me, you'll get through it.  It's just a storm to weather, and then things will calm down and life will go on.

[ChillNow]

Dear Jsinjin,

Unfortunately, as several others wrote as well, in terms of having a minimum amount of reaction from your spouse, that is highly unlikely.  Honestly, you can't avoid that by being ultra-prepared.  In fact, you'll want to brace yourself for some really out-there reactions from her. 

But it will be worth it.  Keep your eyes on the prize. 

People who are much less educated than you are and who have a fraction of your resources have done it - so you can get through it as well if you really want to.

[GettingOOTF]

People who are much less educated than you are and who have a fraction of your resources have done it - so you can get through it as well if you really want to.

This sounds harsh but honestly it’s so true. I stayed stuck in my role as a victim of my circumstances and of things I thought of as outside of my control for years. With a lot of self work, these boards and therapy I see now that the only reason I stayed was that I didn’t want to leave. I wanted things to magically “get better” so I didn’t have to do the hard work. I also saw that I was so enmeshed with my ex and the drama of my marriage because it was a good distraction from dealing with my own issues.

We can make all the lists we want and have all the resources in the world. We protest as much as we want but at the end of the day we don’t make moves until we want to.

I read a forum for alcoholics. Often someone will say “you’ll stop drinking when you really want to”. This usually gets a lot of people upset and they protest about how much they want to stop drinking. The truth is that they don’t want to actually stop drinking, they just want to stop the negative consequences of drinking. That is a major mindset change as those are two totally different things.

[Lauren17]

Jsinjin, it sounds like you and I are in a very similar place. I've finally decided I cannot wait until DD is on her own to leave. I'm also a planner and live by checklists. But the whole process is overwhelming.
My top three wants are similar to yours.
1) keep DD safe, emotionally and mentally
2) protect myself against H's retaliation
3) get it over with as quickly and as cheaply as possible
Everyone here has made excellent recommendations. I'll just add what I consider to be a biggie.
Educate myself. I just finished Splitting, which I learned about here. Next up is a book about planning finances before during and after a divorce  and then a couple about helping the kids through the process. I've also been searching online for divorce laws where I live.
As I learn, I'm able to flesh out that checklist a little more.
It's a huge effort looming, but I'm thinking it's just like the old phrase about eating an elephant.

[Kat54]

Jsinjin, there is no way around the difficult hard work it will take to achieve happiness for yourself.  It will, will, I promise be worth it.  But, its going to be like ripping off a band aid on a terrible wound and there will be pain. I know your fear like it was yesterday for myself.  I think you are so close and ready for that leap of faith in YOURSELF!  Your kids will make it through this and you will be there for them as you seem like a very devoted and loving father.  And, one day I'm telling you, your life and relationship with them will be stronger than ever.   

Unfortunately you must must walk through the fire of dealing with your spouse, and there is no way around it.  Every time I see you post, I'm rooting for you and hoping you are making progress to a happy life for yourself.  I have been there and today, I'm a woman who is single, owns my own home, has a great job, also working on my art and not an ounce of regret. I have been so incredibly fortunate and my family and friends have propped me up at my lowest points.  I hope and pray you can get there.

Love This Life, its the only life you have, make it count.

[Free2Bme]

Jsinjin,

This is what my list looked like.  I was a SAHM and updH controlled everything, so my list will be different in certain ways.

*Stash cash & copy financial files, etc.
*Open safety deposit box- important doc's, jewelry, etc.
*Stored personal/sentimental items at trusted friends home (updxh has history of destroying my belongings)
*Placed a few days worth of essentials at friends house
*Met with attorney
*Prayed, a lot
*Wrote a "don't look back"  letter to myself reminding me how dire the situation was (incase I second guessed myself during process)
*Packed up kids & left without notice (for safety reasons), while H was out of town
*He was served & assets frozen
*I did not answer his calls, only texted minimum info
*Opted not to go to court, H pulled ridiculous stunts and demands anyway
*We had an agreement in 4 months, marital property division took another 2 years to finalize
*I let him 'win' on many things. I came away with a sub-par settlement, my life, and my sanity
*I remained in our home, bought him out


These are things I would do differently~

*Kid's in counseling PRIOR to leaving
*Documented his instability & abuse (police reports, photos, texts, recordings, etc.)
*Psych profiles
*Gone to court, (4) kids wanted to talk to judge
*Pursued full-custody, I had grounds
*Insisted on a specific counselor for children put into agreement (updH blocked my efforts to get them counseling)
*Communicate ONLY through attorneys until finalized (afterward, only through email/text)

My kids (10-17) weren't really shocked, considering the state of our household.  They expressed relief.  The divorce stuff didn't phase them, however visitation was the terrible for them. 

If your children are over 16 years old, they may be given the choice as to where to reside and visitation wishes, depending on your local court. 

Make your list, and think of what your non-negotiables would be. 

Prepare your thoughts and how you will tell children, ex., 'I care about you mom but our situation is not healthy for any of us, I am taking this difficult step so that we can heal'.... (or whatever your sentiments are).

Going through it was hell, no lie.  But staying in the cyclical madness we were in was WORSE than leaving. 

Take heart, you will get through this.

[PAY]

the only reason I stayed was that I didn't want to leave. I wanted things to magically "get better" so I didn't have to do the hard work.
GettingOOTF, I related so much to this.  I felt inertia.  It felt easier to stay than it did all the upheaval to leave.  Until it didn't. Until staying was clearly harder work than leaving.
PAY

[ploughthrough2021]

I ve read your past post and I'm in a similar situation. You sound like you ve overcome the fear and determine to be happy which is where I m at as well.  Yes, I know what you mean by a checklist. Separation needs to be carefully planned. Get good legal advice.

[JustKeepTrying]

jsinjin,

There is some excellent advise here.  hard to top it but I will share an outside resource.  https://www.thehotline.org/plan-for-safety/. I noted that your initial post was 1/31 so I am not sure where you still stand in the process.

What you take and how plan are dependent on your overall goal.  If I wanted the stuff, I would've stayed in the house and asked him to leave.  But for me, that led to an increased of physical violence.  He had already demonstrated an escalation in the physical intimidation the few days leading up to my last day - and I was very worried it would escalate further.  After 32 years, I am sure he thought I would never leave.

I stayed up nights the days leading up to my exit making copies of all documents I could get my hands on.  Everything from my marriage certificate, birth certificates, a year of bank account records, tax documents, house papers, school documents for the kids.  I also video taped the rooms of the house so I would have evidence in case he raged or items I wanted.  Don't forget the safety deposit box. 

I packed the car with items that were significant to me that I would miss if broken.  Items of monetary importance that were from my parents, etc.  Clothing and meds.  Then I left.  It took about two hours to pack the car and take the video and leave.  All together only three days of sneaking and two hours of packing once I made the decision.

I moved into a hotel (after two days with friend so I wouldn't be found).  I had budgeted for two weeks in a low rate I negotiated.  I told the desk clerks my situation and they kept a copy of his photo at the desk for safety reasons.  I found an apartment and moved in at the end of the two weeks.  I bought a sleeping bag and slept on the floor for the first few months while we negotiated.  I left planning on having no money to my name and ready to live in subsidized housing.  I would be poor but happy.

I found out months after thousands and thousands of dollars he had hidden.  it's been 20 months since I left and I have since discovered a significant amount of money unfortunately I can't access it for many years due to my age without great penalty.  But it was all a surprise.  I had lived with him under the impression that we were dirt poor.  We lived on buttered noodles and aging produce.  Butter was actually a luxury.  I still get angry thinking of all those years worrying that we were going to be homeless with little children.

I am writing this to tell you that everyone  has an exit story and it is different for each person.  Also there will be surprises along the way.  Some good and some bad.  But your resilience for surviving this long (good on you!) will do you a great service now.  You have the skills and ability to do this and the end result is magnificent.

What do I mean by magnificent?  Well, I do wake up most days with thoughts of him and the harm he did.  But more and more I quickly pull myself away and focus on the peace and joy I have found.  Even in a pandemic.   As for the children, mine are older and we struggle.  Really struggle.  But my youngest, who has harmed the most, is in therapy and working through all of it as best he can.  Therapy for all of you is critical.

So in the end, determine what you want.  Mentally, physically and the stuff.  Work from there with a good attorney.

There are better days ahead.