Feeling the need to have empathy for the PD trauma

[Socialsunshine]

In several things I've read it talks about having empathy and even sympathy for people with PD because their disorder is a result of a traumatic experience. My initial reaction is that just because they've experienced trauma doesn't mean I need to allow them to cause trauma in MY Life  but then part of me does wonder- is there a healthy way to have empathy for someone with BPD? Like, I'm genuinely sorry for the trauma my uBPM experienced, and it does explain her behavior, I just don't think it should JUSTIFY it.

[blues_cruise]

You're entirely right, it explains the behaviour but it doesn't justify it. I've been visiting some NPD support websites recently in an attempt to gain some clarity and understanding of the condition. It's been a big surprise to me that those who are officially diagnosed are far more capable of self awareness than we tend to commonly be led to believe. Those who don't feel emotional empathy for others can still choose to practise cognitive empathy and general respect for others, it's just that more often than not antisocial tendencies also exist in the person and they choose not to.

I think it's easy to get stuck on seeing someone's character as being entirely made up by their personality disorder, when there is also an individual somewhere under it all. I think you can both have a personality disorder (or multiple) and be a naturally unpleasant person character wise. Even without a personality disorder being present, some people are just generally abrasive, self entitled and not nice to be around! Along with this, there are those out there with a personality disorder who do manage some self awareness and choose to try to treat others better.

With this in mind, my own thoughts on it are that I can sympathise to a degree about how my father came to develop his disorder and I can have some compassion for his own trauma. What I can't forgive though is his insistence to keep the status quo in place and to continue his dysfunctional, damaging behaviour. He's capable of researching and taking responsibility for his own mental health and gaining advice and clarity from others online just as much as anyone else.

[Cat of the Canals]

A trick that helps me is to separate the person from the behavior. I've pieced enough family history together over the years to see that my grandmother was very likely unBPD, just like my mother. When I think of my mother as a child, I feel a lot of empathy, because I know exactly what it feels like to be in that position. To be scared and confused and lonely because the most important person in your life seems incapable of unconditional love.

I can even feel some of that empathy for her now, knowing that she is still that lonely child, on some level. But the empathy stops when it comes to her behavior. No amount of inner pain would give her a right to treat me and my other family members the way she has and does. I expect better for myself and better from her. The abuse she's suffered does not give her carte blanche to perpetuate the same abuse on others.

And I think what blues_cruise said is especially important: "He's capable of researching and taking responsibility for his own mental health and gaining advice and clarity from others online just as much as anyone else."

My mother often expresses disappointment at our lack of closeness. But she never takes the step of asking herself what her part in that might be. I suppose I've come to expect a certain amount of personal responsibility and self-reflection from people, especially if they look around at their lot and said, "something about this is wrong." If they refuse to look at their own part in it, then I can empathize with the pain they feel, but I do not have much empathy for the misery they seem hellbent on wallowing in.

[Amadahy]

When my anger at how Nmom has treated me threatens to become self-destructive, I try my darndest to practice empathy for the hellish childhood she had from her own Nmom.. In some ways, my Nmom did better than her Nmom and  telling myself this keeps me from seething over what I will never have (unconditional love and care).  It is small consolation to have bad vs worse, but that's about all the rationale I can muster when compassion is needed to keep my own sanity.

Interestingly enough, before the dementia progressed, Nmom learned I would no longer allow her abuse and she could behave herself for long periods. It certainly is a balancing act to hold one accountable while extending empathy, but I sadly could never let her know I felt for her -- the mere suggestion of intimacy or genuine affection would put her on the attack.  My feelings of empathy, then, were internal and to help me cope, primarily. It's all very sad and frustrating!

[Socialsunshine]

I appreciate all of the replies! And I completely agree that it doesn't help ANYONE (including uBPDm) for me to enable her and enmesh out of "empathy". And I truly believe that! I think what got me was reading a review for one of the books mentioned on this forum, and like most BPD books, there were negative reviews and comments about needing to view these people with compassion and empathy because of their trauma/mental illness. And while I don't disagree, I don't think their victims are the ones that need to do that  . I also agree about her having the same resources to be able to get help and even the DESIRE to want to work on herself, and that is obviously lacking...

[moglow]

I think you can have compassion and empathy for what someone has been through, and *still* hold them accountable for their behavior. Maladaptive though it may be, behavior is still a choice for the most part. That doesn't means someone gets blanket forgiveness and you have to overlook what is clearly deliberate on their part. Or even for that matter, that we're not all responsible for responding rather than reacting to the world around us.
Sometimes the best we can to is just continue to model better behavior ourselves.

[Lisa]

I think it's possible to eventually get to a place of empathy. In my opinion we first need to feel our own feelings, the hurt, the sadness, the anger, the grief, suffering and damage (etc) caused in the relationship with the PD person.  We have the right to our feelings and our experiences are valid.  It's so important to first feel that for ourselves before exploring empathy.  Empathy might even come more naturally once we have engaged in our own healing.
Of course some people may be able to feel empathy and their pain at the same time!

[AlisonWonder]

Isn't empathy about feeling with the other person?  It seems to me that the problem is, PD people have not *yet* experienced their trauma.  They may be able to recount it verbally, intellectually, but the feelings that belong with the situation have not yet "arrived" or "caught up with" the person.  And they are working their hardest to prevent that.

"Hurt" and "wounded" feelings are different, they often make no sense so they seem fake.  Do we show empathy for those, while still observing that we are not the cause?  If so, that would mean we have to avoid the person in future so as not to cause pain.  And we all know that does not work.

Thank you for the opportunity to think this through, it clarifies NC for me.

[Ladymm]

I was thinking a lot about the nature of narcissism and how it develops. I also found some parts of me which were hidden to my conciousness and then i had a realization about them and found out i wasnt behaving in a healthy way. But always it happened. I have no idea how is not b ing able to have that and being a narcissist. Sounds like a nightmare. But then the question is, a person with a PD has no ability to do that or doesnt even come close to a situation of self introspection?

I accepted that i will never really know. I feel like the divine hid this aspect from me. Also what really is empathy? How much does it have to do with forgiveness? Is it just a religious construct? Even one of those who is used sometimes to feel bad on how immoral you are if you cant feel and act from it in an expected way?

I am ok for not feeling empathy. I can somehow imagine, scientifically. What i can feel is my emotions,they are many and often uncomfortable.the atmosphere of a disordered upbringing made me such and really at this moment i feel this is all i can offer my attention and space to.