Sense of entitlement

[11JB68]

uPDh mostly ticks all the OCPD boxes, but has some BPD and NPD traits as well.
I keep trying to figure out where this sense of entitlement comes from. According to him ,he was pretty much neglected as a child. I could see 'spoiling' a child to the point that they develop this sense of being the Prince/King of everything. BUT if he was neglected as he says he was then how did he develop this sense that HE is in charge, smartest, best, deserves to be cared for/waited on etc.
He accuses me of being too easy on our DS, yet DS will clear his own dirty dishes/rinse them/put them in the drainer etc., pumps his own gas, handles his own car repairs (for the most part) etc etc etc.
I keep feeling like SOMEONE at some point led uPDh to believe he is entitled.... or is this a defense mechanism that actually COMES FROM being neglected??
Or is he plain lying about the neglect..... (?)

[Andeza]

Well, does he have a good track record of telling the truth about other things in his life?

[Fiasco]

I kind of see how a sense of entitlement could come from neglect. When you're neglected completely, as opposed to having only your urgent or appropriate needs met, you never learn which of your needs were worthwhile. Does that make sense? Because when your needs are met as opposed to your wants you get reinforcement of the difference between the two.

On the other hand, a massive sense of entitlement could also lead you to think that anything less than 100% catering to your whims was neglect!

So yeah, I think Andeza's question about general trustworthyness of the source is the main thing to consider.

[11JB68]

Andeza - this is a tricky one.
He claims to hate lying. Claims to be a bad liar. Claims he 'cannot' lie. Has often been 'honest to a fault' when it comes to saying stuff to people that would be better left unsaid ('white' lies, to save someone's feelings etc)
HOWEVER, he has lied and hidden stuff in the past. Lying was / is a way of life in his FOO.
And, when I say 'lying' (about the past neglect) I don't know if I even mean LYING (consciously) or if I feel like he is construing an alternate reality...this has happened at times too (one time he looked in his full closet, no empty hangers, when packing for a trip and said 'I guess we haven't done laundry this week?' ???? this really freaked me out....)
I know his dad was abusive and can totally picture that. His mom was sweet but manipulative and quite narcissistic. But he also lived upstairs from a grandmother and great-aunt who seem to have taken a large role in raising him and he loved them...I cannot imagine them allowing neglect to go on. I honestly do not know what the rules were when we were kids but these days you cannot start school each year without your annual physical - so I'm thinking he MUST have gone each year for a physical (???)

[11JB68]

Fiasco - that's very interesting....
So - possible he ALWAYS had that sense of entitlement and so in his mind he was neglected since not all of his needs were met.
I still cannot wrap my head around the idea that he would have been 'completely' neglected. I mean...I've seen true child neglect...he may have been emotionally neglected (but even that is hard for me to believe, especially with gram and auntie there...)

[Andeza]

Oh yes, his disorder will absolutely skew his perception of truth vs lies. That's kind of why I asked, to get a measure on the likelihood that this is just another disordered aspect of who he is.

My gut feeling is that yes, he never learned to class needs and wants separately. I have a two year old right now that does the same thing. Wanting to have another yogurt in his mind is absolutely necessary. However, I recognize that what he really needs to do is eat his hamburger meat.

So it is possible, and ultimately you will have to judge for yourself, that your H never grasped the difference. Therefore perfect storm. His truth is that he was neglected, oh woe is him! *insert mental image of someone swooning from drama here* And therefore now, later in life, he deserves all the things to attone for this terrible crime.

When reality may very well be that he had the basics but never viewed them as enough. And that may be showing more as well, in actions like you describe with the laundry. If so much as one pair of socks he wanted was not available, therefore laundry didn't get done at all!

I'm only guessing at your age group, but it's possible that no, it was not required for him to have a yearly physical. The proof is in his old immunization records if you can get your hands on it though. May shed some light.

[11JB68]

Andeza, more interesting thoughts. I wish I could find his medical records. His mom was a bit of a hoarder, but when we cleaned out her stuff I don't remember med records... She kept every report card though.
Needs vs wants. Interestingly he is very judgmental on this subject as it applies to others, especially to me. He used to routinely ask me, if I said I needed to buy x, 'is it a need, or a want'?

[SparkStillLit]

I feel as though updh keeps an enormous double standard in this way. Everything of his is a "need", and everything of anybody else is a "want". Also the thing about lying. Hates lying, "never" lies...except when it suits him. But woe betide anyone else he thinks is lying (with no concrete evidence or reason to lie). It's all very dystopian alternate universe crap, I tell you.

[11JB68]

Spark, yes!
Re: lying. He lies to his dad all the time. In fact when he called fil yesterday re medical issue I'm assisting with, he started telling him something untrue. I think just out of ease...I said to Updh: do not lie to him. Updh quickly stopped but said I'm not lying to him, but then told him the correct thing...
Ugh

[SparkStillLit]

That's another form of lying he'll do. If called out on crummy behavior, "I'm not doing that thing". Like that makes it so!
Also on the want/need bit, this way he gets to rage at everyone about their wants. Us, strangers, society, whomever.
This from the dude with the incessant Amazon orders. AND NO JOB.

[ploughthrough2021]

My uNPDw also has this trait and was neglected and abused by his uPD dad as a child.  Her mum was too weak to stop the abuse.  I had read something somewhere that when a NPD person who had been subject to abuse and neglect as a child, can develop this 'sense of entitlement' or 'power over others' to make sure that they are never abused again.  That explanation made a lot of sense to me.  It is basically a defense mechanism that a person with a PD develops.

[11JB68]

Plough through that makes sense. Very sad.

[square]

I wonder if NPD might be rooted in an odd combo of neglect and spoiling. The combo might take different forms.

- Parents neglect, but another person spoils (grandparent, later adoptive parent, etc.).

- Most powerful parent abuses/neglects, the other quietly spoils.

- Same parent neglects in some ways but spoils in others. Such as abusing/neglecting, but teaching the child that OTHERS aren't giving their fair due (poor grade = mean teacher, etc.).

An abused/neglected child will internalize a low self worth, but spoiling from another source can offer a layer to paint over the broken self worth: they are victims that deserved so much better.

But spoiling means the child is not taught healthy boundaries. Instead of learning that they were in fact maltreated and deserved better- but still that they have limits - they live in a state of some type of fundamental deprivation while tantalized by the alternative of unlimited treats, pity, etc.

I can say that deprivation is often completely invisible and unseen by physicians, teachers, or society.

[SparkStillLit]

Blah blah blah blah updh is so often ranting at or lecturing the teen now. Has he never noticed that it has ZERO effect on the teen's behavior?
Some of the behaviors are ordinary teen things and should just be ignored or redirected IMO. Quit dying on every molehill.
If it's really a problem, a constructive address might work rather than predictable rants and rages that do nothing. Somebody said somewhere about their grades, and he actually did that, threw a fit about a lower A. Are you effing kidding me. THE KID HAS AN AAAAAYYYYY. Are you really going to throw a shitfit because he could have a 99 and not a 95 if he didn't game??????? He told me his mind doesn't work like that, he just doesn't understand that. I said it didn't matter if kid had a B. Life balance mattered. He got mad and said if kid put gaming effort into school he could have 100%. I said he doesn't need 100%. He needs happiness and mental health and acceptable grades.
Updh thinks everyone has to be just like him or they are no good. Or, no, everyone has to be perfect.

[11JB68]

Spark, I get so tired of hearing that from Updh... About how his brain is different, wired a certain way, etc

[SparkStillLit]

YES. I hear about that and how he "knows things". Not like Tyrion Lannister. Like knowing things in a special sense. Like he can sense things about people, particularly if they are doing wrong.
How his mind just "works differently". Uh huh. It sure does.
In fact, I often think about this psych test I took years back, and I think if he took it now, he'd fail it. I think of the crap he says and how it is quite a few of the questions on there.
But I'm straying off topic now.

[LiftingFog]

Spark, I get so tired of hearing that from Updh... About how his brain is different, wired a certain way, etc

Omg YES!  Mine told me once (actually several times) that he'd like to donate his brain to science so they could study it.  Because, apparently, his was wired differently and was special and soooo complex.   

[square]

My H thinks he can sense bad intentions without fail and that the other 7 billion people on the planet who might have a different take are "deluding" ourselves.