NPD Parents showed up in my parking lot: advice for restraining or C&D order?

[poetandpunk]

Putting a post on here to  vent and because it's the last straw.

I have been NC with my parents for eight years. They are emotionally, verbally abusive, demand an enmeshed family dynamic, and were physically abusive when I was a kid. My husband and I communicated our boundaries early in our marriage and when my parents ignored them, we had increased resolve and went NC.

I haven't seen or spoken to my parents in eight years. They have continued to try to get in touch by creating new email addresses, trying to contact me at my place of work, contacting friends and church pastors to try to get information about me and my whereabouts, etc.

They say they want 'peace' but they have never respected my boundaries at any step of the way. Nor have they ever apologised for the behaviours that my husband and I very clearly said we would not tolerate. They are incapable of reflecting on their own behaviours and WHY I might have gone NC with them. They just play the victim and say they are the ones seeking 'peace.'

Fast forward to this past weekend. I went to the grocery store with my daughter. It's walking distance away. On the way home from the grocery store my parents were sitting in the parking lot in their car. They tried to start a conversation and I told them they shouldn't be there. Before my mom could finish her sentences, I sprinted with my daughter in the stroller across the parking lot.

I don't know how they found my husband and I. I don't know how they knew I was at the grocery store and that if they waited in that part of the parking lot, they'd see me. We have not given them our address, our phone number, or our email addresses in eight years. I simply have no idea.

I feel stalked. I feel violated. This is the last straw. I am scared to leave my house now because I am worried they will show up somewhere and demand a conversation. Church, the store, a restaurant, preschool, etc. I want this to stop. I want legal protection. Instead of demonstrating that they are capable of a healthy relationship they have after 8 years done the exact opposite.

I know you can't get a restraining order unless there has been a violent incident.

Has anyone had success with a restraining order or a cease and desist order without having had a violent altercation? I would love to hear about it . Thank you.

[Starboard Song]

I am so sorry you are dealing with this.

The general guidance is to avoid restraining orders -- avoid lawyers and police -- whenever possible. But yours is not the general situation and you may be at that point.

[Lisa]

Wow Poetandpunk, that is so disturbing!  I can only imagine how much adrenaline started pumping through you in that moment, it makes a lot of sense that you are now afraid to leave the house.  You have a right to your privacy and a right to your boundaries.  If they ever show up again you can walk away just like you did today, you can tell them next time "I'm going to call the Police because you are stalking me".  You have power and you have options. Take good care of yourself.

[The Inner Light]

That must have been very disturbing for you.  I hope your parents don't continue with that kind of unsolicited attempts at interacting with you. 

A friend of mine estranged himself from his abusive FOO many years ago and went NC.  His parents hired a private investigator to track my friend down.  Perhaps your parents went to those lengths which would be additionally disturbing.

[poetandpunk]

Thank you for your comments Starboard Song, Lisa, and The Inner Light.

You are right that it was very violating and disturbing. I took my daughter for a walk this morning and again I was nervous my parents would be lurching around the corner of a tree or something.

I wonder if they did hire a Private Investigator. I just don't know how on earth they'd be able to find our address? We haven't even been living here that long. My license and my voting registration are not linked to this address. I really don't know.

After all these years, and especially having a child, I have wondered: maybe NC is too extreme, maybe we can have some relationship. Maybe maybe maybe.

For anyone struggling with 'maybe,' I can say now that the answer is usually NO. My parents have proven that every single one of our precautions and boundaries are necessary.

No normal person would do what they did. It's not normal.

Not only that, but no person who is capable of a healthy relationship would do that.

I just wish that the law was different. It seems like you have to have a violent incident to qualify for a restraining order. We want to prevent one. That's the whole point.

If anyone has any information, that would be helpful.

If anyone has dealt with their NPD/PD relatives showing up at their home or place of work after going NC, I'd love to hear how you dealt with it.

A friend of mine said if they had my address, they could have written a card or a letter. They could have apologised. But no. That's not what they chose to do. They chose to act in a violating way. Again.

I would love to hear how anyone else has dealt with this kind of thing!

[moglow]

My mind says: This is not "peace." Maybe their idea that if the family were together it would be peaceful, on their terms. One would think they'd have long since bought a clue that your peace is not the same thing. You'd also think the silence alone should be clear, but no. The message continues, you're not allowed (in their minds) to be an individual and decide right from wrong for yourself.

It feels like they're demanding to be seen, demanding that you respond. I'd probably have to dig down deep inside myself and just NOT. At this point, any response is probably not a good one. They'd have to swim in their frustration and disappointment, and my continued silence.

I know it can't be easy, but their demands change nothing. You're an adult, no longer under their control. You keep doing what's best for you and your family - those people are not your friends and don't have your best interests at heart. If they did they'd have gone about this in a whole different way. Stalking and demands don't tend to feel warm and fuzzy for anyone, even less so after eight years.

[Andeza]

It can be shockingly easy these days to get access to someone's known addresses and such online without ever paying a dime. We just moved, and I was curious how easy it would be if someone wanted to find me. The answer was a single search. We have NOT even applied for our new licenses yet! Our information is out there, who we are, where we have lived, people that we have been known to associate with... It's terrifying in a way. It's also a good reminder that distance, moving, changing phones or addresses, etc, are not necessarily a guarantee of privacy, or even safety. I'm not saying this to scare anyone, but as a reminder that we need contingency plans. I encourage everybody here to sit down and think through what you would do if your NC person/s showed up at any of your regular places.

Poetandpunk, what I recommend is sitting down with a lawyer (virtually if need be) and at the very least talk through the options you have for an hour or so. They'll know the law in your area, what you can and can't do, and can offer region specific advice that we can't... really give. May be the best hour you ever spend money on. May buy you peace of mind, or at the very least get you started on an action plan. Your parents definitely have that "we will hound you until the last nail is in our coffins" kind of mentality by your own description, and that cannot go on without consequence.

[The Inner Light]

No normal person would do what they did. It's not normal.

Not only that, but no person who is capable of a healthy relationship would do that.

^ Thank you again for sharing your story.  My wife and I just recently discovered that my dad and sister are uNPD.  What you said above really hits home for me because for YEARS, my wife and I both have said those exact words about the behaviors of my dad and sister and how they treat other people but we never knew why.  Countless times my wife or I would say to each other:  "That's just not normal!" , "A normal person wouldn't say/do that.", etc (regarding my dad and sister). 

I certainly hope you're able to go back to living the life that you've been living as your own family these last years that you have.

[poetandpunk]

Moglow and Andeza,

Thank you heaps for your comments. They really help.

Moglow, you seem to especially get the frustration about 'wanting peace.' It's so stupid because I know they just want control, and access, and everything on their terms. It's the whole reason I Don't want a relationship with them - everything is on their terms, they can't see other people's needs, boundaries, valid responses, emotions, etc. They just see themselves. The whole time I've been NC I KNOW that they think they've been mistreated and that they have been hurt. It's all about them. That's narcissism.

It was just confirming and affirming in a way that they did this. They are such violating people and it only furthered my resolve.

What is so weird is the complete inability to reflect. Like, if someone I really cared about refused to speak to me, the first thing I would do is wonder about my own actions and how I might have hurt them. It's like my parents are incapable of this. They have never attempted to apologise in all of their attempts to get in touch. They just say 'we want to talk to you, we want peace.'

If someone flat out refused to speak to me, I wouldn't say, 'come on! i want peace!' I would think, WHY? DID I DO SOMETHING? And I would own my mistakes, apologise, and leave it at that. No demands.

I go back and forth between whether I want legal action. It feels like anything I do will cost more money than we have to spend and will require seeing my parents in court or a legal battle.

That's why the Cease and Desist would be amazing. They receive the letter as a warning and if they violate the terms, they are arrested. I never have to see them. But they are hard to get!

[Starboard Song]

Early in our crisis, I contacted a family attorney to plan for whatever may happen.

They advised us to -- as a first step -- have the attorneys write a letter to my in-laws stating our demands to be left alone, and what expectations we had. They said they can cram in all kinds of scary sounding language with with zero legal force.

The good thing about this was that they could crank it out for a few bucks, and we won't really have engaged the family protective services and domestic safety machines. That can be the danger, they said, is that you can be inviting the state into a place you really don't want it. And a judge who doesn't understand personality disorders can send things sideways.

Now, that's just one legal opinion. But they said the bogus letter on the letterhead usually got people to stand down pretty well, and they thought it was a lower-cost and lower-risk solution.

It is certainly worth discussion with a good local attorney before going big with restraining orders and such.

As this thread matures, please remember that none of us can or should give actual legal advice.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I agree that a consultation with a lawyer is an excellent idea.

My parents are very much like yours. Harassing relentlessly after NC. They put all that you say about their perspective in writing: I am wrong, they are hurt, they just want what's right. Zero responsibility or reflection. I'm so familiar with the feelings of dread upon leaving my house, or making contingency plans of what I would do if they came or I came home to their car in the driveway. It's the worst thing I've ever been through in my life, and I'm so sorry you are in that place too. It sounds like you handled that confrontation in the best possible way.

My father brought in the flying monkeys and slandered me in a very threatening manner, such that I was sure that the plan was to have abuse charges brought against me. Simply ignoring it was no longer an option, as now my children were being threatened.

Here's what the lawyer I visited suggested. And the consultation was completely free. I wrote a cease and desist letter on my own. It was very short. Just I do not want contact with you, including through any third parties, and you are well aware of this fact. Your behavior constitutes harassment and is illegal. If you continue, I will take legal action against you. I sent it certified mail so I have my uNF's signature on the receipt, and I also sent copies to the flying monkeys. So there's no possible denial of my position. I'm sure it hurt them, these were people whose respect they were relying upon in their campaign against me. And probably served to help further justify every evil false thing they ever said or thought about me.

I don't care. I had to protect my kids. In fact I hope I helped them to discard me. I've had blessed silence for two years since then.

[poetandpunk]

Call Me Cordelia,

Thank you for your post! That is so helpful. I was wondering about doing something along these lines. I saw a template for a 'Cease and Desist' letter online somewhere. You can make them look and sound very official so that the offenders back off with the threat of legal action. It acts as a threat for legal action in a way that silences most people.

I will talk to my husband about it and perhaps this is the best way forward.

The fact is, like others have said, my parents do not accept that I am capable of forming my own boundaries and opinions and values. They simply won't accept my choices. They think I've been brainwashed. Yet everything that they do out of 'love' and 'wanting peace' is violating, ignores basic social norms, is anti-relational.

We can't really afford a lawyer and to be honest we don't really want a court case. It's expensive, we don't have the time or money, and I don't want to be in a courtroom with my parents or family members.

The Cease and Desist 'official looking letter' sounds like a really good option. I might send one to my brother and older sister too. My brother emailed me right after my parents showed up at my house. He's blocked on every social media account and email address but he just creates new ones to get in touch somehow. He said how he was 'so mad at mom and dad for doing that' and that i should call him. Once again I felt really annoyed. at first someone might think, 'oh wow, that's great, he's mad at your parents for being dicks so he sounds like a good ally.' But I know him. He didn't ask a single question. He didn't ask if I was ok, if I felt safe, how my family was doing. Nope. He said how he felt and that I should get in touch with him and call him. He didn't say, 'if you want to call, feel free, but I understand if you don't feel safe.' Weirdly his message felt a lot like my parents anyway - the same 'on my terms' dynamics, the same making it about themselves instead of asking questions of the person that was shaken up.

Families like this are just so narcissistic and incapable, truly incapable, of seeing other people. Like even in that fairly dramatic situation, my brother still made it about him (about his feelings, about what he wanted).

It's no wonder I don't want anything to do with them.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I'm glad to have been able to help. I 100% hear what you are saying. I never want to be forced to see them in court either. Who in their right mind would want to be suing their parents? But that was the risk that in the end I was willing to take. The alternative was to accept their behavior and attempt to negotiate with the terrorists. And if I know them at all I could never have done enough penance for my wrongs to have any semblance of peace with them. If it does come to a legal battle, your parents and mine have absolutely no prayer of winning in my opinion. The evidence is all against them. Especially if you document everything. I think it was very wise to send copies of the cease and desist to someone else who would act as a witness, although in normal circumstances involving third parties in a conflict is bad form. They had already been roped in by my parents and I was setting the record straight.

I'm really sorry about your brother's response, and I have been there as well. I sent copies of both my father's threatening letter to a would-be flying monkey and my cease and desist to my siblings. They never responded at all, but my SIL responded via email on both of their behalf after a long time, much like your brother. If she were in my position she would be absolutely livid and sibling and I would NEVER... You can absolutely trust us and let's get together sometime soon. Gaslighting me and rugsweeping all the conflicts I'd had with her and brother.  And like yours, never expressing empathy or concern for us whatsoever or even asking how we were holding up. My own message had been very dispassionate, these are the facts, please see attached.

No wonder I dropped the rope with the whole FOO.