What Is The Point

[Hepatica]

Do you ever think, what is the point of having had all of this pain? I'm getting thru a pretty triggering week here and sort of staring up at the sky asking, what? What for?

It's like many of us have experienced such a backwards experience. The norm is that parents are meant to love us. Instead they act like we owe them, or they actually can't stand us. Part of why it's hitting me so hard this week, is conversations with a few people who talked about how their parents have gotten everything in order in their lives, financially, so they don't leave their children with anything to clean up after they die, and that they leave their children an inheritance. Because they love their children. Huh! Wow! What a concept. Parents who actually love and care about their children and grandchildren.

I found out this week that my parents are selling off property, at a massively inflated price, presumably to pay off the seven different overdrawn credit cards they've maxed and loans and probably a reverse mortgage. My mother's gambling and my father's hoarding has eaten up everything, so this means a family property, that was given to my father by my grandfather as a gift to him is going to be sold off and the $$ pocketed by my father.

There's nothing I can do about that and I certainly imagined this possibility over the past five years, but still it feels like a shock.

My father talked so much about family but in the end, his words were completely hollow. He could have had a cottage that was a central hub where memories were made with his family and grandchildren. Instead he filled the property with his hoarding and if we tried to make it habitable, he got angry. It was all for him. No family memories. I so wanted to pretty that place up and have big family dinners there and watch the kids grow with their grandparent's proudly smiling as they watched them. One of the thing that burns about this, is this was given to him by my grandfather, who seemed to care about legacy and passing on good things to his kids. My parent's selfishness just goes on and on.

It feels petty for me to complain about it. My God. There are people in the world who have nothing and I'm complaining because my parent's have addiction issues. It's loss nonetheless, and it hurts.  It's what's underneath it. I don't have a family. I don't have a family because my parent's toxicity and addiction sucked the life out of everything. The lack of care is not a money thing. It's a soul thing. Families who have little can be way more loving than my family was. And maybe that is the point? Maybe we need more balance and equity in this world? Maybe I have learned compassion and empathy because of the pain I've experienced and that is a good thing.

I know that we all feel that here. And I'm sorry. The pain of it can be so overwhelming sometimes. Sending love to all of you.

[square]

Sending love to you as well.

I grapple with the "why" every single day. I'm aware I may be looking for meaning where there may be none, but I look anyway, not sure I can help it.

[Poison Ivy]

I'm sorry you're feeling this pain. I would be, too, if I were in a similar situation.

I often wonder what the point is of my life, particularly my marriage (which ended by divorce 5 years ago). My ex eventually contacted our daughter (see my recent post regarding "ghosting"), and now he is here, at what used to be our marital residence. We get along okay, but I continue to look at and listen to him and think, why did I marry him? We have two wonderful children, but I feel as though nothing else good resulted from our marriage.

[notrightinthehead]

Hepatica - I don't see the point of all that pain. To me it's unfair and I feel sorry that it hit you, or me for that matter. It's like we are being tested for no reason at all.  However, we are surviving. In spite of all the obstacles we are trying to be the best person we can be. We refuse to get stuck in bitterness and resentment, or depression and hopelessness. Every day we get up again and limp on, spreading kindness and joy, being grateful for small signs of love, joy, and beauty all around us.

[Boat Babe]

Our brains are pattern recognizing organs of perception (in part). It's a function of our amazing cognitive capacities. This means we look for patterns in EVERYTHING. and sometimes, there is no pattern, only chaos. In other words, we are meaning seeking creatures in a universe that has no intrinsic meaning in and of itself. It's purely a human mental construct. Problem is, for us, it's central to our well being. We know this as the loss of meaning in our lives is a key factor of depression. When we are engaged in something that feels meaningful to ourselves, we are full of energy and feel good brain chemicals.

IMO, there is no meaning to be found in our childhoods. No overarching and meaningful narrative (usually constructed from religion). The understandable, and probably biological, search for meaning breaks down when it comes to our childhoods. We are adrift with meaningless pain and damage.

It all sounds pretty bleak, but is actually very liberating.  Allow me to expand. When my four year old was diagnosed with Leukaemia, I resolved not to waste time and energy asking "Why?". I realized I would never find a satisfactory answer. The search for meaning here would drive me crazy.  Instead I concentrated on the here and now, doing my utmost to support the treatment and give my son the very best childhood possible in these gruelling circumstances.  He is now 25 and I am unutterably proud of him.

Shit happens in human affairs and it happened to us. We may find aspects of it utterly baffling and meaningless, but we can, using the alchemy of self awareness and self compassion, supported by loved ones, professionals and gifted amateurs (Out of the FOG members!) find meaning in our lives now. We can look at our story and build a narrative of a survivor, a thriver, a fucking hero!

[ploughthrough2021]

Hi Hepatica, thanks for sharing your story.  I am a parent to 3 wonderful kids (teens to twenty).  My uNPDw actually has zero plans or wishes to have anything with them and their kids in the future which baffles me.  Your story kind of struck me as being my future if I stay with my wife.  That is why I am trying to get out NOW.  Her Dad has uPD and her mum stayed with her and basically none of the 3 kids do anything with them anymore.  My point here is that if one chooses to stay with a PD partner, the family WILL suffer the consequences.  I am now convinced (after 30 years of experience) that it is always best to leave

[Hepatica]

Thanks to each of you for responding and giving me support. One of the things I learn each time I fall into that rut of pain that follows a shock involving the real time dysfunction of my FOO, is it passes. As well, I have realized that I no longer need to put myself in the middle of the chaos, and see that pain on a weekly basis, or daily, as I did when I was growing up. i have distance. That certainly helps.

But it was a shock nonetheless, and makes me wonder how to tighten my protection around, why do I even allow a few of the reasonably good family members to contact me, when it is always, always something distressing about my parents or sister? I keep thinking I should be able to handle it in small doses. I don't know why I can't?

BoatBabe, I read your comment and it's so true. We look for patterns. I always do this and then when I become face to face with the realization I am looking at chaos, or something that seems the opposite of love, I get thrown. I am down on the ground sad again. Thank you for that perfect cheer. We are survivors, thrivers and fucking hero's! That's brilliant. I love it and will write it on my wall.

I'm sorry to each of you who have responded and who are also in this mess of confusion. But we do have this and each other to lean on, on the bad days, and that's better than most of my life, when I lived with this alone in my own head. I am incredibly grateful to all of you.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Hepatica

It's a rough thing to realize and I'm glad you posted here so we can share and others have shared a lot of helpful things already.

There is no point to it in the sense that it was not what others got because they were better. They were just lucky. And I do wonder - most people I've ever met who had parents who loved them do not see it as lucky. They either have no analysis about their luck or they subtly say something that tells me they think they deserved it. If I talk with that person for too long their ideas infect me because they don't see how random it all is. We don't choose our parents. We are dealt a hand.

Yes there are folks who have suffered more than you / us. That does NOT mean your experience was not painful. Or is not painful. I feel this misdirection harms us in our recovery process. We need to know our pain is seen.

Our empathy for others who have suffered can make us feel bad for needing that empathy ourselves. We all need empathy. We all do.

Selfish parents leave a lot of painful losses. It is hard. You are wading through some deep things.

Trees

[Andeza]

We explored this topic pretty heavily in the religious section a while back, but if you're not religious that's obviously not going to be very helpful. My personal belief is that there is a point. To quote Obi-Wan "there's no such thing as luck, in my experience." I suppose I take comfort in the thought that there was a higher purpose to my suffering. That it equipped me in some way to handle life. Perhaps it did.

We are, to some degree, the sum of our experiences. Once you inject will into the equation, that truly determines the outcome. That is to say, we live through this crap, and there was no guarantee we'd get here the way we did. We could have ended up like our pwPDs. We could have become hateful, horrible people. That would have been a fairly straight forward 1+1, right? But there was another element to our experience. That element is our determination and willpower. We decided to do better, to be better. And so, 1+1 became 1+1+x.

Had we been brought up in "normal" homes, we may have become far different people. Perhaps entitled, clueless, happy with the status quo, emotionally immature... there are many possibilities.

[Oscen]

We don't choose our parents. We are dealt a hand.

Yes there are folks who have suffered more than you / us. That does NOT mean your experience was not painful. Or is not painful. I feel this misdirection harms us in our recovery process. We need to know our pain is seen.

Our empathy for others who have suffered can make us feel bad for needing that empathy ourselves. We all need empathy. We all do.

[Oscen]

Hi Hepatica,

Just wading in with my 2c. I agree with Boat Babe & Trees Grow Slowly; I don't believe in a greater meaning. Just our human instinct to find one to make sense of it all.

To believe it all had a purpose, I'd have to ignore too much of what I already know about the world. I won't go into that - it would depress us all - but we live in a world where sh*t happens, and happens frequently, and all too often to people who couldn't possibly be considered deserving of it. I'd have to stop reading the news AND history books if I wanted to convince myself otherwise.

I don't believe what happens to us has a meaning; it is what we take from it that creates meaning.
We need a life philosophy that is positively life-affirming, clear-eyed and honest; it must be robust yet flexible to keep us going and adapting.
It can't be nihilistic or it will sap our spirit; it can't be pollyanna naïveté or stubborn denial or we will struggle to navigate life's ups and downs.

So make your own meaning, one that you can live with, and then live it.

[1footouttadefog]

Sometimes I feel very cynical and think that none of it has any meaning.

I was even pondering the fact that love itself is merely brain chemistry, and we only fool ourselves to believe it's special.

Brain chemistry in reaction to stiluli influenced by the brain chemistry and other physical reactions to stimulus. Could another person be substituted and cause similar chemistry.

Could in any given relationship, a different set of memories and past experiences have made that particular live not possible.

Could it be knowing what we know now, would have made falling in love with our spouses impossible.  All that majic and falling in love that seemed so special impossible with knowledge, just hard dry facts tossed in the mix?  Perhaps it's not very meaningful.

While this is a cold way of looking at things it find it reassuring at the same time.  Once healing has taken place, and brain and body chemistry reset, new love is possible.  With knowledge and experience and memories in the formula different things can be found attractive and relationships can have different things in the love recipe.   New, different, better, more complex, gourmet even.

My cravings, appitite or what ever we call biochemical drives for relationship are certainly different now than they used to be. Additionally healing has taken place and much of my pain is gone. Memories take its place but they don't bring all the pain.

I suppose the memories and the lessons have meaning in that they serve to guide away from repeats.