Am I the narcissist?

[Gemmaxx]

I was wondering how many people have thought themselves to be the narcissist after being told they are by the narcisstic person in their lives ?

[livinginmyhead]

I've wondered myself if I might be a narc.  I think we all have some mild narc traits built in to preserve our self interest.

But if a person is questioning themselves and their own motives enough to wonder if they are a malignant narcissist then IMO he/she could not possibly be one.

From what I've read, true narcissists are incapable of considering the possiblity that they might be less than perfect or wrong.

[escapingman]

I am thinking this all the time, but it is easy to dismiss the thoughts as I never had an issue with any other relationship. It's only since I started coming Out of the FOG I have started to question myself.

[SonofThunder]

It's common and it is part of a PD's manipulation.  Visit the top 100 traits section here on Out of the FOG and read about 'projection' and 'gaslighting'.  Links below.

SoT

https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/projection

https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/gaslighting

[Starboard Song]

We read Stop Walking On Eggshells, and my wife was all like, "oh crap! I am a borderline!"

This is a common feeling of confusion, sometimes reflecting fleas, sometimes induced by gaslighting and complaints, other times just reflecting the dissonance of telling someone else they need to pay more attention to you because they are paying too much attention to themselves (that is, we can easily feel guilty about seeing these faults in others).

Here's the deal: a good sign you are not disordered is your genuine concern you might be.

[Sheppane]

Yes agree with the other replies. The fact that you are even questioning it shows an openness which IME a true NPD would not possess. Its more likely if you relate to the issues on this site and identify with feelings of FOG in relationships that it may be a combination of things as Starboard Song said. Strong feelings of self doubt, questioning my reality, doubting my perceptions can easily lead me down a road of ....maybe its actually me? Maybe I'm the problem all along? I say that with the knowledge that 50% of the relationship is up to me.  But when I look closely and see what my 50 % is like ( not perfect but we never are ) and I look at the other 50% - it sometimes makes it clearer. IME it is gaslighting and other forms of projection which make me doubt my reality. And that can include whether I'm the narcissist.

[carnation5]

I ask myself this question all the time. Maybe I was the narcissist because I kept feeling like he didn't give me any attention in the relationship? Wouldn't a narcissist think exactly that?

We are trying to find some reasonable explanation to the insanity we have been through. The other person is so steadfast sure about themselves that maybe I'm the problem?

However, if you find yourself even remotely curios about other people and sometimes doubting yourself, you are probably not a narcissist. I try to hang on to that. I was always curious about him, I wanted to know everything about him and his background. He never asked me a single question until I pointed it out and then he made some half-hearted attempts. That in itself makes me not the narcissist.

[1footouttadefog]

I had su h thoughts and questions when I was coming Out of the FOG.  I found it useful to take the 100traits list in this website and mark the ones I did and the ones that pdh did and indicate of they were done habitually or occasionally as well if they were done in reaction to other things on the list.

I got A Lot of clarity with that exercise.  I did also see I had some bad habits I needed to address, some of which had crept in as a response to abuse I was receiving. I decoded to own my part and get to work on it so in the end I would know I had tried from my side of the equation to make things the best they could be.


The list is basically a lot of things that can be subtle or not so subtle forms of abuse. 

[SonofThunder]

I had su h thoughts and questions when I was coming Out of the FOG.  I found it useful to take the 100traits list in this website and mark the ones I did and the ones that pdh did and indicate of they were done habitually or occasionally as well if they were done in reaction to other things on the list.

I got A Lot of clarity with that exercise.  I did also see I had some bad habits I needed to address, some of which had crept in as a response to abuse I was receiving. I decoded to own my part and get to work on it so in the end I would know I had tried from my side of the equation to make things the best they could be.


The list is basically a lot of things that can be subtle or not so subtle forms of abuse.

1foot, I believe your exercise in going through the 100 traits is excellent, as well as your comment regarding "...crept in as a response to abuse I was receiving".  I am currently in a stage of the IDD abuse cycle with my uPDw where she has been attempting discard since February of this year.  Now that I'm fully aware that her cycles span about 2-3 years (from idealization-to-discard), I am, for the first time, trying to show indifference to the discard.   

It is a very fine line between indifference and actually discarding her in a 'fleas' kind of manner (your crept-in comment).  I am trying to make sure I am not proactively being vengeful in my indifference but rather not giving any attention to her purposeful discard and occasional step back into devaluation in her attempts to catch me off guard.  It's SO not my nature to be indifferent. 

For example one of the ways my uPDw silent-treatments is to totally ignore me during a meal and spend her total time/attention on her phone.  In the past, I chose to MC that behavior and sit there quietly and eat my meal.  She is very aware that I am sitting there quietly, without my phone and eating my meal 'alone' with her 3ft from me.  During this attempt at 'indifferent', I simply mirror her actions, by using my phone when she is on hers.  She is now well aware that I am not sitting there phoneless and will put hers down on occasion.   When she does this, I silently put mine down as well and pick it back up when she does.  It's a ridiculous game and It is SO hard for me to do this, because it's against my nature. 

Now I do not do this with every action/reaction she does, as I will not return fire with fire in verbal devaluation, but rather back to noJADE and MC.  But when I can shut down the discard with indifference, I will.  As I stated, it's a very fine line in which to operate, but I believe I'm now educated, trained and aware enough to pull this off and it's throwing my uPDw in a tailspin, as she cannot perpetuate the IDD cycle as she's used to doing. 

SoT

[Lavender123456]

I'm not sure if this will be helpful as a lot of people have already addressed this comment but I have also wondered and investigated my own possible disorderedness.
After having seen 3 different psychiatrists and regularly seeing a psychologist I have still not been diagnosed with a PD.  I know that it is very difficult sometimes to get a PD diagnosis because specialists are reluctant to give people a PD label, especially because some of them have very limited treatment options.  I have decided that whether or not I am disordered, I have a lot to learn about being in healthy relationship with other people. I am on a mission most of the time to learn how to treat others as best as I can.  I fail often.  I isolate to avoid hurting others and myself often. 

I think I'm going to stop trying to get diagnosed for a PD because as I'm writing this.... I don't think I have one.  I have some traits but I think what really got me wondering is because  I was attracted to and ended up dating someone with a PD and over empathized with them.  I also have mental health struggles so sometimes it's hard to know how to categorize and treat them even with professionals.

[SonofThunder]

Lavender, I'm sorry you struggle with mental health, and I hope you find awareness and the improvements you desire,  in the very near future.  I have three uPD's in my life and none of them show the desire, capability nor compassion of self-awareness that you demonstrated by your written paragraphs above. 

In addition, in my experiences, when any of my two uPD's have been required to have extensive interaction with each other, it quickly escalates into a battle of attempted manipulation of each other, ending in distance being put between them, just like two magnets repelling each other.   They do not empathize with the other, but rather, go into manipulative overdrive, because they are interacting with another skilled manipulator. 

I'm also glad to read you are aware of PD behaviors to recognize you were attracted to one.   Many of us here, like myself, grew up in households or were married long term (or both) to PD's so we become normalized to that behavior (before we came Out of the FOG), and humans have a tendency to gravitate toward what they know.  I many times consider living (in the fog) with a PD person, to being in a cult, and many cult members were unaware they were indoctrinated into cult behavioral groups until they are removed from that situation and become educated and self-aware. 

SoT

[Hazy111]

The narc in your life may well be "projecting" but you can  be a self aware, insightful perceptive and still be a narcissist . Doesnt necessarily make  you a malignant narcissistic socio/psychopath ! All PD is a range of traits and behaviors.

I know a person (i wouldnt call a friend, i would say is a pyschopath. Some of the stuff is very scary .)  He seems to lack any sort of empathy , except of course for himself. His treatment of others is always justified including that of his wife.

I was diagnosed with schizoid ( not schizophrenic) traits, nowadays some call avoidant. I definitely have some narcissism and no its not the healthy type! I obviously disagreed with this diagnosis at the time, but that was my narcissism  .

My PD i believe  came from being raised by my uBPD mom (hermit/paranoid type) . My father was uNPD and i believe my sis is uBPD and numerous family work etc etc.  I dont believe PD is in anyway genetic. 

I would say i know plenty of schizoids/avoidants  ( some extreme loners, some social animals (me) , but all have a lack of real intimate relationships, some were married ) overwhelmingly male, known of whom have had a diagnosis. Society calls them "commitment phobes " . I know some "successful ? (sic)" narcs.

I believe PD is the norm not the exception. I know this is uncomfortable for a lot of people, but once you know the tell tales you cant unsee it.

Dont put up with any "***" and dont dish "****" out (no they didnt deserve it. Your better than that arent you?)

[Lavender123456]

Thank you SoT!  It is like a cult isn't it?  I saw someone wrote that the other day on a forum and it really resonated with me.  With family and close ones it can be so difficult to break out of the cult or hold at arms length because it feels like I'm betraying my tribe.  But I've never fully felt a part of that tribe.
It can feel isolating or lonely but I'm feel very thankful for the healthy connections, though few, that I am working at maintaining and doing well with. I appreciate your kind words.

[TooLiteral]

My uNPDh accuses me of this all the time. So much so that I often wonder if it's true. Especially when it comes to sex. He says that I "withhold affection" because I'm a narcissist and I'm just teying to punish him and manipulate him into doing what I want.

But the truth of the matter is that I can't be intimate with someone that devalues me every day. I know this. I know the truth. Narcs twist things around to make themselves the victim. The best way to do that is to project onto you.

[WearyHusband]

Yes. I wondered if I was a narcissist. I was filled with so much pain and shame and disappointment in my marriage, and I experienced so much drama and verbal and emotional abuse, I began looking for any solution. One of those solutions was, "Something is wrong with me," which I was told from my spouse. I was told on multiple occasions things like, "All our marriage problems are because of you. All my pain is because of you!".  I began to internalize false-guilt and shame. In my attempts to empathize with my UPDw of 20 years, for a season I internalized every accusation. I began to think, "I am totally broken. I am responsible for all her pain. I just can't see it. I must be a narcissist." It drove me to the point of suicidal ideations. That is a place I don't ever want to return to.

It was only after I went to therapy that my therapist began to help me see the reality of the situation I am living in. I am living in an abusive relationship and my uPDw has significant unresolved trauma that she has not yet been willing to face. She has projected her trauma on to me.I am not faultless, and I continue to work on ways I need to deal with my past, grow, change, etc. But what is shocking is that I started therapy thinking I was a narcisissist. After a year, I'm realizing that I have been a recipient of gaslighting, boomeranging, and other behaviors that are typical of those on the narcissistic spectrum. I haven't labeled my wife, and she is undiagnosed, but I have experienced repeated patterns of those in relationship with BPD and NPD. I joined a CODA group and am learning to take responsibility for my Codependent beliefs and behaviors and change. Setting boundaries. Rebuilding my self-esteem, etc.

WH