Do most pds have difficulty making conversation?

[CagedBirdSinging]

Reflecting on the 5 years of my marriage, a problem that was present from very early on was sheer lack of conversation. Once the love bombing phase was over, pdH just seemed to lose the ability to talk to me.

I'd tell him stories, anecdotes, funny/interesting things, only to be met by... a half hearted "hmm," or else silence. In an effort to jump-start a conversation, I would try asking him questions..but this visibly irritates him. He doesn't like being asked anything. Perhaps he worries about being caught out, because he exaggerates and lies a lot.

The only time pdH will talk at length is about HIS issues or interests. So, get him talking about his racist, anti-immigrant attitudes and he will talk for hours. Likewise he will talk for hours about his health. But this is not really a conversation, it's just a one sided lecture.

At times in my marriage I would spend an entire weekend without a single conversation. Without a single meaningful exchange. The loneliness of it was almost unbearable.

I guess it has got worse over the years, because I have realised he uses any kind of disclosure against me. So, while I used to sometimes fill the void of silence with anecdotes or stories, now I am very guarded. I try not to tell him anything he could later twist and use against me.

All this is very selective of course. He can talk to the kids, or to his friends on the phone if he chooses.

Would this be a common experience with PDs?

[square]

My thought reading your post is that maybe the conversational issues are secondary to other things.

- If he uses disclosures against you, he may feel vulnerable himself.

- If he is narcissistic in nature he may not be interested in conversation that doesn't feed him.

- If he has discarded you, he'll want you to know you are not valued.

[Lauren17]

Do most PDs exhibit this behavior?  I don't know.
Does mine? Yes.
I've been married more than 20 years and his lack of conversation has gotten worse over the years. Most days, our conversation consists of "Dinner is ready"
This is partly because I've stopped the anecdotes and funny stories as I've come Out of the FOG. They just gave him another opportunity to belittle and invalidate.
He once told me that he hates to be asked questions because he assumes the questions are meant to show that he is wrong or has failed in some way.  Really, what do you do with that information?!
A response to a post of mine a year or so ago included a wise observation that PD are often like small children in this regard.  When you pick up your kindergartener from school, they will rush to tell you all about their day--who they sat next to, what snack was, the picture they painted.  But it doesn't occur to them to ask what you did all day.  I've kept that in mind dealing with H and it has helped me to cope.

[ploughthrough2021]

Yes, my uNPDw is the same.  Funny you should mention racist and anti-immigration, we are both visible minority and immigrant to our country of naturalization.  However, she would talk as though she was a white European person.  The kids and I don't even touch that subject and I normally quickly change the subject if we get there...

[Cascade]

A million times yes! Well at least my husband has problems making conversation. I could have written your whole post. We've been married for over 25 years and it's getting worse. Mealtimes are the worst. My husband dislikes questions too, and what Lauren said about questions really makes sense.

[IcedCoffee]

Yes, all of this. Conversations are either about my uBPDw's interests or rants about how everyone hates her. Yesterday one of my adult sons who I don't see often at the moment asked me a question about me, I was taken aback and thought how nice it was that someone was interested in me!

[CagedBirdSinging]

My thought reading your post is that maybe the conversational issues are secondary to other things.

- If he uses disclosures against you, he may feel vulnerable himself.

- If he is narcissistic in nature he may not be interested in conversation that doesn't feed him.

- If he has discarded you, he'll want you to know you are not valued.

Yeah he is diagnosed with NPD, so it's a case that he is unable to empathize or show interest in anything not directly related to him. But I don't think he feels vulnerable. The discard thing- yeah maybe, but not sure- as I said, this lack of conversation started very early on, when i don't think I'd been discarded yet. Actually during the true discard phase, he probably spoke to me more than usual, but this was just to berate, criticise and rage at me.

It's been interesting to hear of others with similar experiences. Here's a quote I came across which I thought you might love:

"A bore is someone who deprives you of solitude without providing you with company." - Oscar Wilde

This describes life before I left pdH.
No solitude- no time to think, breathe, relax
No company either - no chat, laughter, emotional connection.
My heart goes out to anyone living this reality. It is so tough.

[square]

Oh WOW, what a quote. I love Oscar Wilde, what a beautiful man.

I feel the same. I feel lonely but would not be lonely if I were alone. I'd have the space to fill up with my interests and projects. Sure, maybe with another person occasionally too.

Having a disconnected human being's shadow over me is far lonlier than being stone cold alone.

I've said before that the lonliest number isn't one, but one plus a corpse.

[Simon]

Yes, when I think back, for the last 6-8 months of the "relationship", there really wasn't a lot of conversation from her end.

Yesterday one of my adult sons who I don't see often at the moment asked me a question about me, I was taken aback and thought how nice it was that someone was interested in me!

You know, you just made me remember something I'd long forgotten.
My Dad was ill, in hospital for a while, and thankfully recovered and I got him settled back in his house.
During all this, my BPD gf at the time hardly asked me how he was, how he was doing, etc, stuff you'd expect from a normal person who was concerned about their partners Father.
Not her though.
But, just like you, I was taken aback when a woman I work with came up to me and said "How's your Dad doing now he's back home? Is he OK?".
It was such a shock that she was interested.
Not because she isn't a nice person, because she is, but because I'd apparently started to believe that the way my gf was acting was normal, and that everyone would be the same.
Looking back, it's amazing that I'd ended seeing things that way.

"A bore is someone who deprives you of solitude without providing you with company." - Oscar Wilde

Never heard that Oscar Wilde quote Bird.
Love it!
Must get that put on a T-Shirt. 

[Free2Bme]

I've said before that the lonliest number isn't one, but one plus a corpse.

Sorry square, I'm compelled to plagiarize you on this one.   
I guess I could cite you but it would be as 'square', not sure that counts lol

[Andeza]

I'm going to make a broad generalization and say they fall in two camps. Either they have a hard time making conversation, or they never shut up. In the latter case, if they let you get a word in at all, it's only because they're planning what they want to talk about next, or how they can twist the conversation to be about them. I could be talking to my uBPDm about my job, and the first breath I paused to take we'd be back to her and her problems.

[square]

I've said before that the lonliest number isn't one, but one plus a corpse.

Sorry square, I'm compelled to plagiarize you on this one.   
I guess I could cite you but it would be as 'square', not sure that counts lol

Lol, if it's gifted to you it isn't theft

[CagedBirdSinging]

Another aspect of this - pdH also hates his own company. When he has to spend time alone, he is miserable and moans about how awful it is. Yet he doesn't really like talking to people (not in any depth). He was off work recently, home alone for a couple of days, and he was moaning the entire time about how he 'just had to get out of the house.' So basically he doesn't like sitting in his own stink. He doesn't like the atmosphere he creates. So he wants to drag his dark cloud over here and inflict it on us?!

By contrast, I'm happy in my own company (the Wilde quote- so so good!). Nothing wrong with a bit of solitude... unless you're a pd.

Simon, you're right about the lack of normal conversation. I've also been floored by kind, considerate questions from co-workers. This is part of the problem; we can lose sight of 'normal.'

[Cat of the Canals]

I'm going to make a broad generalization and say they fall in two camps. Either they have a hard time making conversation, or they never shut up. In the latter case, if they let you get a word in at all, it's only because they're planning what they want to talk about next, or how they can twist the conversation to be about them. I could be talking to my uBPDm about my job, and the first breath I paused to take we'd be back to her and her problems.

Laughed out loud at this. It's so true.

My immediate response to the question was NO! Both PDmom and PDmil will talk, talk, talk.

However, the more nuanced answer is that the PDs I know can make conversation, but it isn't quality conversation. There's often little attempt at connecting with the other person. It's more like they think they're at a podium giving a speech, and everyone else present is their audience.

Any conversation without PDmil at the center, she simply tries to talk over. She launches into long stories about the time Sheila did XYZ, and everyone else will be looking at each other wondering, "Who the heck is Sheila?" The answer is usually someone she worked with ten years ago. But she just expects us to follow and be completely enthralled.

PDmom has better social skills. So she has lots of "friends" to communicate with, unlike PDmil. Again, I'm not sure about the quality. Inside the family, she has a tendency to give lectures vs. have conversations. I really don't know how much meaningful conversation she has with my dad at this point. He's often her preferred SG, and I have trouble imagining them just sitting at the dinner table talking like friends. There was a time where I was the clear SG, and there was very little communication between us. I either got some version of the silent treatment, or she was snarling out criticisms.

[yarlanzey]

Maybe this explains some of the behaviour of my ex-friends. Nights out always had to involve lots of other people. It couldn't be just us few guys chatting. There had to be girlfriends, sisters, other friends/colleagues/acquaintances. If we were in a more "local" place they'd have to talk to half the people there.

I get doing this type of thing if I'm out on own, but if I'm already out with a "friend" or two, hey, I can talk to them. I don't need to invite ten other people out as well lol.

[square]

Conversation with H used to be wonderful.

Now he is in his own world. But one day a week (on a day off) he will come into my room and stare at me.

I would invariably be reading. I put my book down because it would be rude not to.

Then the waiting begins. I stare off into space. He stares at me.

If it's a good day he will eventually say something like, any news? Then I can say how I read this or that, and pray I don't hit a landmine. Conversation might go okay.

Or if he's in a wretched mood he will say something like, I guess you're not going to talk to me.

What do you respond to that?

I haven't figured out the MC response to this. It's checkmate. I could shrug and say mildly, guess not, and then enjoy the explosion. Or shrug and say mildly that he isn't saying anything either, and then enjoy the explosion. I don't really care to try an MC excuse like, oh, I guess I was just lost in thought, because I would then be accepting full responsibility for conversation, and while it may be a stupid hill to die on, I can't seem to break myself down even more to that level.

I stopping initiating conversation years ago because I never knew what I was going to walk into. If me initiating carries that level of risk, no thanks. If he wants to talk, he can initiate. He has zero risk, I'm always MC.

This is the most malignant thing he does - meaning he is almost entirely reactive. But I don't think he is actually trapping me. I think he is literally insane. He gets paranoid, almost like people get headaches. He can wake up one day in a stupor of paranoia. So he sees dark and disturbing things. Like his wife plotting against him. When he is like this, he says he thinks I set out to destroy his life, married him as a set-up. Like I'd ruin my own life just for the pleasure of ruining his. So I guess in addition to being a narcissist, I'm a sociopath too.

So when he is very dark, he can approach me and if I don't just scoop him up in a cloud of motherly smooches and love his BPD radar will see rejection and get angry.

Instead of, like, walking in and saying "how are you?" Or "Hey, I was just reading this interesting article." Like normal people.

Ughhhhhhhhh.

[CagedBirdSinging]

Thinking about this a bit more. Watching pdH pretending to make conversation, it looks exactly like that- a fake conversation. He will sometimes ask a question, but shows no interest in the answer. Doesn't follow up with another question or a comment. It's like a token gesture, so he can claim that he tries to talk to me. He is currently gaslighting me, saying I have been giving him the ST and not talking to him. I have to keep reminding myself that I have great conversation with other people- he is the only person it's difficult to talk to. Partly because there are few 'safe' topics of conversation. I don't feel emotionally safe talking to him. There are so many landmines.

[pianissimo]

I have this problem with both of my parents. They are very different from each other. It leaves me unheard and not understood. When I found out about personality disorders, the description about the characteristics about conversation with them helped me a lot to understand what was going wrong when I talked to parents. Because, there were times they appeared to pay attention. Apparently, they pay attention to what you say when they think it will be of use to them, and, when they listen, it's not about getting to know you but collecting information about you to manipulate you later. This is not always done in a negative way, it also becomes a part of love bombing. Like, if they want to be on your good side, they will buy the flowers you mentioned you like, take you to the restaurant you praised, or, they will talk about your interests as if they care. If you don't know what's going on, you take this as "making effort" so you don't mind when all this ends up with a spoken or an unspoken request. If they think they got you through this process, they become abusive again (because that's the way they interact with the world around them).