How do you navigate the endgame of aging parent when you are NC?

[My New Life]

I went NC with my uNBPMom over two years ago.  She will turn 80 soon and is not in great health.  I believe I have worked through a lot of the guilt of removing myself from the toxicity of an enmeshed relationship with my mom, but as she ages, I wonder what's the end game?  My brother's response to our family's disfunction was to be remote and distant - no blame, I think he was the wisest of the two of us.  I played the enmeshment/abuse game for decades and now can no longer be near my mom.  There are not many people, who will deal with her on any level- she can be very mean.  Now that I am NC, what does this look like if she is hospitalized?  Needs assisted care?  Dies at home and no one knows? 

My brother and I discussed it a little and came to the sad conclusion that even if either one of us were willing to talk with her, advise her, or help her navigate the next chapter, she would not accept it.  She would be rebellious, angry and abusive.  She would fire, anyone we tried to get to help her.  She would refuse to be hospitalized and would definitely refuse assisted care.  She would not take any advice given, unless she decided it was her idea.  We decided it would have to play out through the system.  Meaning if she called 911, social services would most likely be called in and they would take it from there. 

I know going back in relationship with her is not an option for me.  I just don't know how to navigate the end game.  Does anyone have experience with this topic?

[Call Me Cordelia]

Hi. I do not have experience directly with an aging parent, but my grandparents were like this. Both sides. One died relatively young of cancer, but the rest had an uglier-than-it-needed-to-be decline. That was sadly their choice. I don’t feel all that sad about it though, just more of a, “Well, you reap what you sow.”

My own parents are not yet old age, but I am NC for 4 years and that is not going to change for me either. I can only imagine they will follow in their own parents’ footsteps as far as aging goes. As we say on here, I fully intend to stay in the shark cage.

You and your brother have outlined the only plan that is realistic, seems to me. She’s an adult, in charge of her own life. You are likewise in charge of your own life, and for you that means you need to choose NC. If social services does get called in, they can do their jobs. If they try to have you take responsibility, you don’t have to accept that. You can repeat ad nauseum what you wrote here, that you would not be able to be of any meaningful help to her. You can simply not answer their calls. Others on these boards have navigated lots of situations with poorly aging parents, if you dig around the Elderly Parents board. It looks like you’re approaching the future eyes wide open, and that’s good.

It is hard not knowing exactly what’s going to happen, but none of us ever do, really. Personally, I find it comforting that none of us can have control, and being grounded in that reality helps me from chasing the illusion of it. If you have the conviction of your boundaries, you can do this.

[JustKathy]

I know going back in relationship with her is not an option for me.  I just don't know how to navigate the end game.  Does anyone have experience with this topic?

Both of my parents died while I was NC, though the circumstances were different for each one when the end came.

My NPDmother died of cancer about seven years ago while I was NC. To be brutally honest, I had zero f*cks to give. I went NC for a reason and had no intention of breaking it. I had been warned by others who had gone there before me that taking care of her at the end would only give her another chance to hurt me, so best to not break NC. She had my enabling father and GC sister to take care of her so I stayed away and let them deal with. No regrets on that one. As Cordelia said, you reap what you sow. My enFather passed a few weeks ago, something I discovered from lurking on GC sister's Facebook page. In the end, she was his caregiver, and it doesn't sound like she gave him much care. I do experience episodes of guilt over that, but again, you reap what you sow. If he had reached out even once, told me he was sorry, told me he loved me ... well, he didn't.

If going back into a relationship with your mother isn't an option, then it isn't an option. She hurt you and you're no longer responsible for what happens to her as she ages. It sounds like you and your brother have a good relationship. If you're both in agreement on this, I'd stick with that decision. In the end, no one can hold you responsible. If your mother becomes ill, I don't think a hospice or hospital would try to contact you unless your mother asked them to, and if she's rebellious and angry, she probably won't, unless it's with the intent to guilt you.

When I went NC I changed my phone number. It's a hassle, but it stops anyone from contacting you. Stick to your guns. You spent enough years of your life on the receiving end of her abuse. I can only speak from my own experience, but I'll never regret remaining NC as my parents aged and eventually died. Do what is best for you. Sending hugs your way. You'll get through this.

[Sidney37]

Thank you for posting this.  I'm wondering this myself right now.   I could see that the last time I saw my enD (who I'm discovering is possibly PD as well), that his memory and health were getting much worse.  That was over two years ago.  Pdm is still alive as well. 

I'm an only child who lives many hours away.  I don't intend to break my NC, but I do wonder if relatives, church members and social workers will start calling me for my assistance at some point.  I can't give in and break the NC, but it's going to be more than a challenge.

I sure miss the advice of our friend Woman Interrupted.  She would have the right words for us about this, with some humor, sarcasm and love mixed in. 

[JustKathy]

 

I sure miss the advice of our friend Woman Interrupted.  She would have the right words for us about this, with some humor, sarcasm and love mixed in.

No one can replace our dear Woman Interrupted, but I can offer some humor.

First of all, there was one attempt made by my mother's hospice to contact me. They didn't have my phone number so they called my dentist. I read that this is a common narc tactic. Having the hospice reach out only to have the NC child ignore it gives the narc one more chance to malign the scapegoat child. Anyway, the dental office called and said they were only calling me as a doctor-to-doctor courtesy, but my mother had once been a patient of that dental office and they knew she wasn't right in the head and apologized for bothering me with it.

The humorous part. The day after my birthday I got an email from my socially awkward GC sister with the header, "Happy Belated Birthday." When I opened the email it said (paraphrasing), "Happy Belated Birthday! BTW, Mother died yesterday."
Happy freaking birthday to ME!

[Call Me Cordelia]

That story always baffles me, JustKathy. The hospice people went along with calling your dentist. I just can't even. What did they think they would actually accomplish with that move? If no one in the family had your number, there was likely a reason for that...

[xredshoesx]

i haven't seen or spoken to my biological mother since i was 21-22.  i'm 50.  whatever happens to her is not my problem and i'm pretty sure in my state i'm not responsible to see to her end of life needs.

there's a reason we all went NC.  just because we sprung forth from the loins of someone else doesn't mean we have a covenant with them to help them return to ash and dust.  blood is not thicker than water.

[JustKathy]

That story always baffles me, JustKathy. The hospice people went along with calling your dentist. I just can't even. What did they think they would actually accomplish with that move? If no one in the family had your number, there was likely a reason for that...

Cordelia, I wish I could remember where I read about that being an problem for children of narcissists, but I did see somewhere that it's a very common tactic with narcs nearing the end of their lives. The hospice workers don't really know what to do. They have a dying person who is probably feeding them a sob story about how their child isn't speaking to them and they don't know why, it's their dying wish to see their child again, bla bla bla. So someone at the hospice will agree to call the child (if they have the number), or if there's no number, they'll call someone who can get in touch with the child. The latter can place the NC child in an uncomfortable situation if the person chosen as a middleman is unaware of the reasons for NC.

I was actually lucky that my mother (or possibly enDad) had the hospice call my dentist. My parents started taking me to that dental office when I was a child and my father had vented to the dentist about some of the nonsense my mother was pulling, so the dentist knew she was nuts, and the nurse who called me knew they were being used as pawns. I share the story to make others aware that it's apparently quite common for this to happen. I don't think an ER doctor or nurse would make that call, but the job of a hospice worker is to comfort the dying person, so they'll do whatever the patient asks them to do.

I think I may have read about it in an online article. If I can find it I'll post it here.

[moglow]

It seems many a narcissist, borderline or mix of whatever PD can charm most anyone. A lifetime of it, stands to reason they can and will do same in extremis. Whatever they're selling, I believe they bought into it with everything they have. Mother believes every ounce of the victimhood, anger, paranoia etc she's nurtured all these years. That's truly what she's chosen and nothing outside that either matters or is remotely comprehensible to her. So yeah, other people buy into it. They don't know until they adk plus unless you've lived it, doubt you see it at all.
Hospitalized? They provide care I cannot. I'm not sitting at her bedside waiting for some epiphany. Assisted care? I'll help set it up if needed. Moving her into my house/ me into hers to provide care or more like a conduit to more abuse? No. One of us would not survive it and I'm not real sure which that might be. Animosities run deep and I'm already on anti-venom. I get a call she's gone, someone found her? That's actually what I expect. I hate it but she built this monster. I'm depleted where she's concerned.

I don't wish her ill or to do without but I'm not inserting myself there again. Choices have consequences. Always.

[My New Life]

Thank you so much for your sharing your thoughtful, hard-earned wisdom and experience. It is healing to just be able to talk about this with people, who get it, without a 4 hour explanation.  I am new to this forum and this is my first post, so still figuring out how to respond to individual answers.  So this time, I am just responding in one post:)

Call me Cordelia - Thank you for sharing your thoughts.  You are correct, it is difficult not knowing what the future holds.  It is not the future I imagined.  It never is, and there is a strange comfort in that.
Just Kathy- Thank you for sharing your story. I am sorry for so much of what you experienced and the learning of a parent's passing by FB seems especially heartless.  On a separate note, Dentist Office.  Really!  I never would have seen that one coming.  Thanks for letting me know that was even a possibility.  Yikes!
Sidney 37 - I empathize with your situation.  It takes strength to maintain the ultimate boundary of NC.  When I went NC, I gave up any hope of controlling what others would think of my choice.  I guess this will one day include Hospice workers, etc.
xredshoesx - Yes, there is a reason we went NC and thank you for your words about the unspoken covenant, that somehow, regardless of how mean and destructive a parent is, the child is somehow expected to aid in the dying process.
moglow - I so connect to your words about your mother believing fully the victimhood, anger, paranoia, she has nurtured.  The hardest part of going NC for me, was realizing I could never make her understand why NC was necessary for me.  In her world, none of what I experienced was real.  Only the beliefs she nurtured existed.

[JustKathy]

Interesting. I found an article in "Social Work Today" that advises hospice workers on how to treat personality disordered patients, including those with BPD and NPD. It recommends that workers take a "respectful, nonchallenging position" around people with NPD. In other words, enable them a little if it makes the patient more comfortable and less combative. There's also a case study of a female patient who was estranged from her children and had only a partner. At one point they mention being concerned that the woman might fire them. That might be another reason they indulge the narcissist by calling people who don't want to be called. Hospice care isn't cheap and they might fear losing the patient to another facility.

https://www.socialworktoday.com/archive/090208p28.shtml

[Sidney37]

JustKathy

I can't believe they called the dentist, but I guess you were fortunate that they called someone who knew the situation.  And that email from your sister.  Wow.  I think I remember you posting about that when it happened.  I'm so sorry!

I'm hoping if I get a call from anyone, it's a social worker at their nearby hospital.  I went to college with several of them.  It would't take much to remind them of the time our fellow classmates walked me over to the counseling center after my PDm didn't tell me that a relative passed away for weeks and threatened to stop paying her small portion of my tuition because I didn't call her for 2 whole days when I was very, very busy.  Threatening not to tell me about a death in the family seems to be popular with PDs, too.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I'm afraid we're getting a bit away from the original question, so I'm sorry My New Life if this is a derailment. I can see the point that the professionals may also have their own reasons and self-interest at stake. As Woman Interrupted of happy memory has pointed out, it's certainly easier for them if you're there to do their jobs for them. And for our dysfunctional families, they only "work" if everyone stays in his or her assigned role as the dysfunction happens to require in the moment. Those of us who went NC broke the system.

I didn't read the article JustKathy posted, but a "respectful, non-challenging position," could be Medium Chill/Grey Rock just as easily as enabling. We estranged adult children don't care about being fired, but we don't have to DO much of anything to simply hold our ground in the face of challenges to our NC generally speaking. I think the hardest part for me has been dealing with the emotional flashbacks/C-PTSD part of it. Which is 100% my stuff. And much better dealt with far, far away. 

[JustKathy]

Cordelia, I apologize if my post strayed from the original question. I would never intentionally try to hijack a thread. We can't delete posts in this forum, but I'll try to stay more on topic in the future.

[ShyTurtle]

This topic pops into my mind every now and then. I was adopted by a ubpd woman. She stunted me as a human and in more recent interactions, continues to disrupt my life. I've been pretty much NC for the past couple of years.

I don't see breaking NC going well, nor do I see my ability as an end of life caregiver going well... so to avoid ending up in jail, I suppose I will keep to the plan, and keep well away from her.  I have suffered quite enough in my life, and I feel like my self-care (to stay the f away from her) is non-negotiable.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I think your experience is certainly relevant here, JustKathy! I'm the one who focused the conversation on the dentist thing.  I'm hoping it was helpful to the OP.

[JustKathy]

I think your experience is certainly relevant here, JustKathy! I'm the one who focused the conversation on the dentist thing.  I'm hoping it was helpful to the OP.

If anything, it's a warning that PD parents never stop the hoovering and guilting of the NC child, even when terminally ill. The child who chooses to remain NC will most likely be hunted down and shamed. I'm guessing my Nmother's first choice would have been to embarrass me at my place of employment, but I was working per diem at the time and didn't have a regular employer. The dentist was the only name/number at her disposal.

I suppose the message here is to expect some bumps near the end, even if you're NC. It would have been a million times worse for me if I had broken NC, but she still managed to get to me. If they can't twist the knife one more time in person, they'll find a way to do it remotely. The need for revenge doesn't die until they do, and if there are surviving enablers, they'll pick up the torch where the PD parent left it.