Don't understand mothers behaviour

[Hilltop]

I know I really shouldn't even bother trying to understand but there have been times that I simply don't understand what my mother was hoping to achieve.  I saw a post about a cousin which led me to remember when I ran into my cousin who I hadn't seen for a while.  I caught up for coffee with her.  It was her birthday shortly after and I was fairly sure of the date however my mother is really good with birthday dates, remembers everyone's as she has a diary, so I sent her a text to confirm I had the right date.  My mother told me it was a different date.  I sent my cousin a happy birthday text only to be told that it wasn't the right date, the original date I thought it was, was correct.  I felt so stupid.  Understandably this made me look bad to my cousin although we had not usually exchanged birthday messages, this was new for me, I was trying to connect.  I felt like my mother sabotaged me.

I told my parents I was doing a health challenge and then they started telling me they had been eating the fat off the meat and how good it was and that I should definitely eat the fat on the meat.  My parents have always cut the fat off their meat for health reasons.  Why would they encourage me to do something they have never done as soon as I mention I am doing a health challenge.

The most bizarre is I was reminded of an accident my mother had when I was 12 years old.  I drove past someone who had done the exact same thing as my mother which led me to remember the accident. No one was injured in either accident, it really was a minor accident. At the time I was embarrassed about the accident and when I was reminded about the accident I made a comment to her that I wasn't very supportive of the fact that she had just crashed the car.  The story was in a light hearted manner, I didn't think much of it.  A couple of weeks later she came up with this bizarre story from no where.  When I was a kid she had walked past my bedroom and heard me crying and kept walking.  I have always remembered it because of the circumstances as to why I was crying.  I never knew she heard me but have always guessed she had heard me and ignored me.  This story by her confirmed she heard me.  She told me she heard me crying and was tired but now felt bad and she should have shown support.  The story she told was so close to my talking about the accident and it has since stuck in my head.  It just seems so bizarre.  I don't know if in her mind it was sharing but the story creeped me out.  I just don't get it.  I had a reason to bring my story up, I saw someone do the same thing and said "oh funny story, I saw blah blah blah".  I mean its been 30 years since that accident, where no one was hurt.  Then she comes up with this random story where she reminded me of where she had done something hurtful to me and then confirmed it to me.  She had nothing to say as to why she suddenly remembered this story she told me. If I didn't know any better I feel like this was her reacting to a narc injury.

I don't get these behaviours or what she would get out of them.  What am I suppose to make of this?  Has anyone had anything similar happen and what do you think it is?

[Andeza]

I'll begin by saying it is good you do not understand these behaviors. It means you are a kinder, more genuine person, and this sort of nonsense is not in the scope of your nature.

And now the not fun part...

That was sabotage concerning your cousin's birthday. I'm sure you asked something like "When is cousin's birthday? I'd like to wish them well." Most likely she views herself as the gatekeeper to your relationships with all other family members, hence the wrong date to embarrass you and discourage you from pursuing that relationship. Did it work? (As an aside, I had somebody get my birthday wrong two years in a row. I just smiled at them and said "Hey, let's get this updated in your calendar for next year." Normal person response.)

The fat on the meat, also sabotage and gaslighting. They don't want you to do "better" than them at anything. Had you then started eating the fat, I've little doubt they would have called you out the first time they saw you doing it and said "What are you doing? Don't you know that's bad for you!?" The opportunity to gaslight and put down is irresistible to them, even if it requires a few weeks worth of ground work.

The accident? I'm assuming your mother is the kind of pd that is wounded eternally by anything they view as shaming or embarrassing. Most likely that accident 3 decades prior stings her pride as much as the day it happened. The story of you crying may have been her attempt to directly injure you to get even or some such nonsense. They never forget anything that can be weaponized I'm afraid.

Right, now I'm going to extract my brain from that false version of reality. Ugh. Now I could be wrong. These are just the reasons that seem most obvious to me and it's all conjecture in the end. Ultimately you have to decide how to respond to the behavior and move forward.

[Blueberry Pancakes]

I sometimes think as long as we have people in our lives we believe have PD, we will always be noticing things that do not make sense.     
   
I do believe the incorrect date of the birthday and the urging to "eat the fat" are likely attempts to take you down a peg. They like to make us look bad to extended family and friends so they look better than us. They like to derail our attempts to be our best selves because if we are unwell, we are then weak and perhaps more compliant and again there is a chance others will see us less favorably. I have been told to wear things I knew did not look good on me, and I always believed they did it so I would look bad to others. I think it is appalling behavior from those who have our trust. 
 
As for the story about her walking by your room as a kid when you were crying, I think it may have been an attempt to inflict injury or put you in your place. I am only guessing but perhaps all those years ago, that circumstance exceeded your mother's skills as a parent to effectively support you. Instead of recognizing her own limits, she instead projected those feelings onto you. She carried that situation with her as proof of how right she was in her thinking. Perhaps then at present day something was said or done that triggered that feeling, and she pulls out that story to shut it down. 

I have experienced similar, and this has been my opinion about it. I do think it will ever make sense to me, and I do not think anything my FOO does ever will. I guess I am OK with that. I do not believe you are responsible for any of this. You get to decide what makes sense to you, and how you deem best to process it. 

[Hilltop]

Thanks Andeza and Blueberry Pancakes.  In all the stuff they have done this is somewhat minor.  For some reason it has stuck with me and I am not sure why.  I think your explanations make sense.

It's interesting you have had the same things happen.  I know my mother has also had a habit of withholding certain information and then checking to see if I knew or had found the information out.  I guess I just don't understand all the games they play.  In the end I don't think it matters I really want to move past it, I am just not there yet. 

Perhaps what I haven't processed is how to deal with the games they play.  I am still VVLC however not NC.  I think underneath I have been moving forward with a belief that VVLC would protect me, that there wouldn't be the opportunity for them to insult or mock or play games. 

As you both say I really need to work out how I will respond and move forward if I am going to stay VVLC.  At the moment my head is in the sand and I now see that the risk will continue to be there.  I think I need to accept I am not going to understand them or their motivations.  That any contact will carry this risk no matter how low the contact is.  Most importantly I need to let go of understanding why they do these things.  I don't think I can move on if I am stuck in trying to understand them. 

Thank you for helping me clear my head and thoughts.

[Andeza]

Hilltop, I've got a confession to make.

It is possible to understand their motivations and why they do the things they do. But it exists outside the realm of REAL logic, and therefore it's a trip down the rabbit hole every single time because I have to sorta hotwire my brain (which is already neurodivergent) to momentarily malfunction and discard standard logic. There is a set of governing rules in the PD world that can be used to interpret actions, motivations, and even predict future actions. It's a different version of logic. Not real, but false, with the emotions = facts built into it. But it's really, really messed up and no one should try to wrap their heads around it.

To put it briefly, they are the center of the universe and all things revolve around them and their desires. They are in pain and desire not to be. Therefore they require someone to carry their pain for them. But no one can carry somebody else's pain, and they find no satisfaction in the effort, save fleeting moments of respite as they dump it all on the chosen target. When that fails, and they're left angry and confused, they will take that anger and pain out on that same target. It's the targets fault, after all, that they couldn't permanently remove the pain.

Vvvvlc is useful for some people, but I encourage you to look at it like building a dam. Lowering contact builds a dam along the river, blocking the flow of negativity out of the pwPD. And just like a river that's been dammed, all that flow begins to build up, forming a lake of endless pain and negativity that cannot be excised. Every time you engage in contact, the spillway of the dam is allowed to open and they dump gallon after gallon of negativity out of themselves and onto you. At some point, the dam may burst altogether, inundating you in a wash of PD rage that dwarfs previous outbursts. All without warning.

[Boat Babe]

Great analogy.

[Hilltop]

Thanks Andeza I appreciate your analogy. I am not going to see them this Christmas or New Year.  I guess I just need more time and I'll see how it goes.  I am not sure I want to go down that rabbit hole  but your analogy does explain their behaviour as I started to go VLC.  They seemed to go overboard when I saw them, it was quite obvious.  I guess I will have to see how it goes, I think I'm just dealing with a little bit of disappointment as the holidays come around.

Thank you for your support.

[bee well]

Wow hilltop. I'm sorry you have been dealing with these things, What you have described is  behaviour that is very slippery, and at times hard to pin down, I think that's why it stuck with you.

You wrote:

"I sometimes think as long as we have people in our lives we believe have PD, we will always be noticing things that do not make sense."

I am know this to be true. And these things are very subtle, and seemingly absurd at times, that they wouldn't be understood by, or at least would be very difficult to describe to people who haven't been subjected to them. But we know the effect it has on us, and it isn't good.

I have had lots of similar things happen, I won't go into details but In my case they had the cumulative effect of undermining me. I would try to describe these episodes to other people close to me and mostly the response I would get is something like "oh, that's odd but you are probably are making too big a deal of it." I think perhaps because my FOO has a very good "public" face. Things I would describe seemed anomalous. Taken singularly  might seem that way but when it builds up over time the effect can be very erosive, like a continuous drop of water that makes a furrow in a rock.

I am of the opinion that some people behave as you have described  because, whether consciously or instinctively, they know where to touch a nerve, and in certain cases conceal uN injuries for years before bringing them up, seemingly out of nowhere.

It doesn't make sense but  this "subtle nonsense" (which I too see as a form of gaslighting) invokes a state of confusion that is real and can keep us frozen, even when there are other things that are clearly wrong, it keeps us doubting ourselves.

How to deal with the games they play? They will never cease to boggle the mind. Reduce or eliminate exposure when possibile.

Sometimes we determine that eliminating exposure, or NC, is not possible, so then we are on to deciding how to respond (or not).

When we doubt ourselves and then respond to nonsense as if it makes sense it can leave us feeling extremely compromised. Responding by saying our truth (but not explaining or justifying it) and leaving it at that feels uncomfortable, and will not lead to them coming clean, but it can do a lot to protect our sense of self worth.

I also find, personally, what Andeza wrote to be very relevant:

"Vvvvlc is useful for some people, but I encourage you to look at it like building a dam. Lowering contact builds a dam along the river, blocking the flow of negativity out of the pwPD. And just like a river that's been dammed, all that flow begins to build up, forming a lake of endless pain and negativity that cannot be excised. Every time you engage in contact, the spillway of the dam is allowed to open and they dump gallon after gallon of negativity out of themselves and onto you. At some point, the dam may burst altogether, inundating you in a wash of PD rage that dwarfs previous outbursts. All without warning."

This is why it's important to be careful of getting lulled into thinking things have been resolved when they may have actually been temporarily lessened by time and or distance, or they are in a dormant phase.

It's good to hear you are taking some time out for yourself. Having that time can give some clarity and a respite to gather strength to better reinforce  dams that may or may not eventually burst. Either way it's a tough position to be in but in my view it's better than the constant erosion. I think your observing and seeing where it goes so you can gauge how you will take it from here is also wise.

As you are aware and reflecting you will be less likely to be blindsided by the back of up toxicity that Andeza was referring to.

[j.banquo]

I know I really shouldn't even bother trying to understand

I don't think it has to feel it's useless trying to understand motivations, if you feel the pull to that's okay. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out "why do they love and support me but also not do it ever." I didn't mean how did they develop a PD; just simply why. My conclusion went from they did it all by accident, then it was only because they didn't have a frame of reference to understand me, to they definitely did it on purpose, finally this is both on purpose and obviously automatic and by accident.



I had to wonder where the thing that wasn't making sense was coming from in reality, not in their minds.

I recently heard from my parent that my other one "always had a hard time" with my being transsexual, and really just never accepted it (brand new news to me, and they passed in 2016, and it has been something they've known about both my whole life and since 2006).

I think that was done because they'd just felt attacked on those exact two fronts. I thought back and it was obvious they'd perceived I'd made an attack on the other, and that I'd revealed a vulnerability about my relationship with them, and with myself.

Shows how well that one knows me. Doesn't think I knew that? They had a hard time with every single thing with any emotional content,[/i] including what kind of takeout they wanted every time. If they had a harder time than was already usual with all things, it was because the other inserted themselves into every one-on-one relationship we had with one another in my family. I'm more highlighting the disconnect from reality than complaining. Noticing what the disconnect was helped me to see where the motivations were. It also helps knowing the motivations when trying to handle and deal with these people.

The most bizarre is I was reminded of an accident my mother had when I was 12 years old.  I drove past someone who had done the exact same thing as my mother which led me to remember the accident. No one was injured in either accident, it really was a minor accident. At the time I was embarrassed about the accident and when I was reminded about the accident I made a comment to her that I wasn't very supportive of the fact that she had just crashed the car.  The story was in a light hearted manner, I didn't think much of it.  A couple of weeks later she came up with this bizarre story from no where.  When I was a kid she had walked past my bedroom and heard me crying and kept walking.  I have always remembered it because of the circumstances as to why I was crying.

I don't get these behaviours or what she would get out of them.  What am I suppose to make of this?  Has anyone had anything similar happen and what do you think it is?

I'm so sorry that happened about her just walking past. I've seen that happen to really dangerous extremes, actually. Must have been horrible.

So yeah, I see this happen. I tell my experience, or remember an event. It's usually something that seems wholly positive or funny. If neutral, or if I guess in advance it will be taken bizarrely, I talk about it in a way that almost no one would find to be confrontational. I'll even say (in normal human language): "... this isn't about you and definitely not your fault, you were just involved in this way that was painful. In fact I am telling you because I am not blaming you in the slightest." And then the next day or within a week, something true but hurtful is dredged up, but they might even pretend the circumstances were different. They were likely thinking "HA, well two can play at this game..." They felt hurt about the neutral thing, so hurt you on purpose via the same method.

Or tried to. Often they try with me, but they often have guessed wrong about what my weaknesses are, or where I'm vulnerable. I think that's when it feels the most bizarre. It doesn't connect to anything emotionally, but they think it is.

[Hilltop]

Thanks Bee Well and  jjffhh, I really appreciate you taking the time to post.  Bee Well I do think some of this is to undermine and make me doubt myself.  I like the thought of simply speaking my truth, perhaps its time to simply be myself and accept that.  I really feel like I am someone else around them and although I get in the future I will need to protect myself I also see that maybe its just time to be me, unapologetically. 

jjffhh, I am so sorry you have gone through something similar and had such hurtful things done to you as well.  I found what you wrote "Noticing what the disconnect was helped me to see where the motivations were" really interesting.  I must admit I struggle to see the disconnect.  They seem to want me to struggle or fail.  I suppose I have felt that I am the scapegoat so struggling and failing would be required for them to be happy.

I have had the same thing happen as well when things are said about something that doesn't affect me emotionally and you are right that this is when its the most bizarre, because it doesn't hurt but just comes across as so weird that they would say or do something like that.

I found some youtube video's by Theramintrees about Narc's, double binds and rumination.  I found them interesting.  I have definitely gotten back into ruminating which isn't helping me.  The videos showed me how I am not helping myself at this point.  I have gone into victim mode, which at the beginning is ok but now I have found its limiting.  Its not helpful or useful for me to keep reminding myself about what happened.  I get I need to process the hurt but I think now I also need to start turning toward myself and my life.  The video's reminded me that I can't fix it and talked about how rumination can eventually bring you down.  I feel like this is where I am at.  I have spent so much time looking at them, analysing them, trying to fix things, trying to understand.  I seemed to get lost under the weight of it all.  I spent so long believing their narrative.

I guess this comes back to what Bee Well says.  Speak your truth.  I need to accept myself and turn away from my parents narrative.  I bought it hook, line and sinker.  Its time to stop blaming them for that and start changing my own narrative. Its just a small thought at the moment but I no longer want to live being defined by them.  What I really want is to simply accept myself and if they can't accept me, then I want that to be their problem.  I think this is what I need to work on.

Thanks for helping me muddle through my thoughts.  I get stuck but thank you for unsticking me and moving me a step closer to letting go.