Manipulation Using "Friendly Reminders"

[j.banquo]

Anyone else? I don't think I've seen this written about anywhere.



For as far back as I can remember, my PDP has had a knack for knowing exactly when I am about to do or say something.

About to thank my friend's parent for having me over, after she arrived to pick me up? Just as I am about to, she would jump in with a command to thank them.

About to start doing my homework, she'd say "have you done your homework yet?"

Did you remember it's trash day?

Did you get your vaccination yet?



Saying "please don't remind me," "you don't need to worry about that," "of course I remember, I've remembered every week for several years, when haven't I remembered?" is pointless, since the reply is always "I'd want someone to remind me."

The effect is disorientation, even an impulse not to do the important thing, feeling shame about not doing the thing, feeling like I can't even control my own time.

[bee well]

I don't know what is at the root of this behaviour, but I have experienced it, where the person would actually see me starting to do or preparing to something then and remind me to do it.

And yes, that is the effect that it has.

It sort of feels like a form of aggression.

[j.banquo]

It sort of feels like a form of aggression.

Does it ever feel that way... it is, it must be, and pinpointing it... I'm going to put on my philosopher/eccentric professor (I'm neither) hat:

My thought/emotion experiment here:

In my imagination, I picture this, which is the normal way to do it:

My friend and roommate comes home just after me, and sees me walking into the kitchen, with my coat on. He says "taken out the trash yet?" I laugh at his joke, I respond "long day too?" or "I know, too much on my plate too." I'm thinking of someone specific, and our dynamic, and I'm sure of it.

So the humor is based in an assumption that we both know I'm about to do that. Otherwise I'd feel a little weird, look and see he was smiling, and realize what he meant. Or say "yeah, about to."

That's all weird-sounding anyway, since he would never do that, he'd just say "hi."



The other way to do it is to use it humiliate you. This is slightly different, but close enough:

I actually was buying a car once, I was staying at home, and told my my parent. They immediately got tense and said "but how will you register the car?" I cocked my head and said "you go and you register it. You just do it. It's very simple." We went over it three times. That it's actually less than a non-issue, how to register a car. If you don't know, the information is always available to you 24/7, and you don't need to know until the car has arrived.

They still couldn't stop from following me outside when the car was delivered, and asking the man driving the truck how I could possibly accomplish registering the #$%@#$ car. As if he, as a man who delivers cars for a living from state to state, would have special knowledge about a random state's DMV rules. By that point in my life, all I felt was that she was embarrassing themselves in a major way; I felt vicarious embarrassment.

But wow I just remembered, at restaurants, even when I'd long been an adult, after I'd ordered my food, they would say "you don't want _____?" or "don't you want a drink too?" I wonder why explaining patiently that if I had wanted anything else, I probably would've mentioned that to the waiter literally two seconds earlier never worked, LOL. I'm sure I always just looked at her and said no, but it felt awful every time.



Also:

• It's a reminder that they can undermine you even with innocent-sounding phrases, making you look crazy if you respond appropriately.
• They see you about to do it, it reminds them about it and they feel like they should've reminded you and feel bad, and really do think you want the reminder.
• They want to develop an association between carrying out your intended action and being reprimanded. It's always a reprimand, since it's always critical. This makes friendly interest from others feel like an assault, after long enough.
• They're reminding you that no matter how obvious reality is, they can pretend even the opposite thing is true and get away with it.
• They were failing in their responsibility to help, guide, protect, support, and defend, and it's impossible for someone not to know that's happening on a visceral level. It's also obvious that it's on purpose.

So anyway, the thought experiment gets me to this: it feels like aggression, since the common element in all of that is an intent to harm or control, which is always against the other's will, by definition?

I'd say the act of interrupting someone's use of their own time on purpose and acting like they should like it is always a form of aggression too. If it's a reminder, by definition it's something that has to happen by a certain date or time. They're saying also that you aren't even capable of remembering to do basic life activities.

I only say "have you _____ yet" before the obvious or agreed deadline when I have something to add, or the urgency level has changed.

Yeah, so it's the same as trying to control how you use your time in any other way too.

That's my conclusion, not saying it's necessarily true.

[Blueberry Pancakes]

Yes, my parents did things like that all time when I was a kid. I always felt like they took away my power to act independently and squashed my right decide on my own how I wanted to handle things. Even if I did something "wrong" I felt like I deserved the autonomy to act as I wanted and own the outcome from it.   

To me, it felt like they assumed I was incapable of figuring out what to do. Also, if they were "reminding" and stepping in all the time, how would they ever know what I was genuinely thinking and capable of?     
 
This actually still happens.  Just last year my dad "reminded" me a week before my mom's birthday that the date was approaching.

[bee well]

Very well put, jjffhh and Blueberry Pancakes.  I sometimes wonder how anyone could justify that type of behaviour towards someone else. The thing is, sometimes we may want to think that it's some unconscious quirk, but they only act like that with select people (at least in my experience), so it makes one think that, whatever the motivation, they do it on purpose, or because they think certain people are idiots and must be treated as such. Again, that's just my opinion.  I'll add, it's highly annoying to be treated like an incompetent.

[j.banquo]

I had another thought about this today.

It feels really true.

It may not be true, but something sure did this to me:

They do it to undermine your sense of priority and urgency.



If it's reminding a kid to take out the trash - say the kid has decided "...okay, I'll go put on my shoes, put this book away, and take out the trash. Simple, off I go."

But the parent, they see the shoes being put on, see the kid walk away with a book, and then they correct the kid. So the kid develops doubt about what order things should be done in, is there a better one, is it the right one, etc. The ability to prioritize disintegrates.

Your sense of urgency gets messed up from someone else singling out what they think is most pressing and pushing it on you. You might stop trying to figure it out on your own, and at least always question which thing is time-sensitive.



This feels true to me, because two of the first things I regained when I respected my right to my own time again were my innate senses of urgency and priority.

[Cat of the Canals]

I've noticed this from both PDmom and PDmil.

PDmom did it most often with social situations. I was a polite, friendly kid (albeit shy), but if we were having guests it was like she suddenly started worrying I was going to magically transform into some sort of antisocial monster. She'd pull me aside and start reminding me of all the things I had to do to make the other kids feel "welcome." Because the reality is, being polite and friendly wasn't actually enough. She wanted to mold me into a codependent people-pleaser. And she did. For a while.

PDmil's version of this is to remind my husband to do things he's already told her he's taken (or taking) care of. Example: we bought a real fixer-upper of a house years ago and one of the things the house desperately needed was new gutters. He happened to mention, totally offhand, that one of our first projects would be replacing the gutters. This became a fixation of hers before, during, and after the gutters were replaced. Every single phone call, she'd say, "You need to replace those gutters, you know." YES, WE DO KNOW. You only know because we told you! Things like this are now on our "don't tell MIL" list. I think she does it because she knows house stuff makes my husband anxious and can't resist poking at it. She's also obsessed with social rules (despite being terrible at following them), so things like letting the lawn grow too long or your house looking shabby are "high crimes" in her mind. God forbid one of her children commit such a crime.

[j.banquo]

He happened to mention, totally offhand, that one of our first projects would be replacing the gutters. This became a fixation of hers before, during, and after the gutters were replaced. Every single phone call, she'd say, "You need to replace those gutters, you know." YES, WE DO KNOW.

It looks to me like I can relate to everything in your reply, but the quote above cracked me up; I've been laughing for a whole minute. When they develop a fixation... it is really an interesting experience.

[Psuedonym]

It's infantilization and its a PD classic! https://psychcentral.com/blog/why-narcissistic-parents-infantilize-their-adult-children#1

[Rocketman]

Oh this was a staple of conversations with my mother. Always found it annoying and now am aware that it maintains control. Which is backwards because she claims she wants her kids to be responsible independent adults yet perpetuates this infantilization through regular checkups of how they are thinking and acting. Doesn't sound like much of an adult to me...

[Sneezy]

My mom has done this and continues to do it to this day.  It bugs me to no end.

But now it's time for me to be honest - I do it to my adult children and my DH, also.  It's part of my co-dependency and you have reminded me that I need to work on this.  I feel like things won't get done or won't get done on time or certainly won't get done correctly unless I remind everybody of what to do and when and how to do it.  I know, I know, I really need to let go.  For my own sake.  Sometimes I can't sleep at night because I think of all the things I need to do, and then that leads to thoughts of all the things other people need to do.  You see where I'm going with this?  It's not healthy for me or my family.  Thanks for the reminder to keep working on letting go