PD In-Laws

[Magnolia34]

Hello all! I'm typically over on the "Secondary Relationships" page trying to figure out how to survive life with my DH's UBPDXW and children, but we've had some things kick up with his family the last 6 months that have become pretty difficult to work through.

His parents have always been very kind, generous people. They welcomed me into their family warmly and although they seemed to have a hard time functioning in the world sometimes (there are definitely mental health and physical health issues) we were always happy to help them out when needed. A few years ago it became really obvious that in order to remain safe, they needed to make a move. As sometimes happens, they fought my DH's urging for some time. No Retirement facility was good enough, moving was too hard, every excuse under the sun. Eventually they agreed to downsize and even asked DH to take over their finances. He was able to financially pull them out of a hole and he and I both bought, sold, and remodeled two homes so they could move into a smaller, safer house and we could sell their old one. During this process I started to notice that my (what I now suspect) UPDMIL was not very emotionally or socially aware of things. Whether she's always been this way with DH or I was just getting closer to the situation, I don't know. She would call at all hours demanding things from DH. DH would attempt to solve problems or fix situations for them (at their request) then UPDMIL would jump back in the middle of the situation and make a mess. Then she turns into a waif, dumps everything back on DH and cries that it's too hard and she has no idea how to handle it. All of this would happen when she KNEW DH was buried with work and trying to deal with his UBPDXW and children.

DH's brother recently jumped into the drama and it's just too much. He had some health issues as a child and although he's fully functioning as a 30 year old, my in-laws have continued to support him. When DH took over their finances he realized that BIL was REALLY taking advantage of their help and spending their money irresponsibly. He hardly works, seems to want to stay in school with no real goals (they want him to get a degree so badly they don't seem to mind bankrolling this indefinitely) so my in-laws decided to cut him off. Because DH had taken over the finances he was involved in that conversation and my in-laws basically threw DH under the bus. At the end of the conversation my MIL looked at BIL and said "So... is that okay??" THIS WAS THEIR IDEA. Things have obviously been tense with BIL ever since.

My FIL recently moved into a nursing home because of some health issues. He was always the family anchor and seemed to keep MIL and BIL on the rails but isn't able to do that anymore.  They have recently taken to triangulating and it's getting really frustrating. An issue will come up with UPDMIL, we'll talk to her, discuss, sometimes argue, but eventually we'll think it's resolved. Then the next day DH will get a nasty text from BIL that makes it really clear he's talked to UPDMIL and she's not over it. He uses this conflict to manipulate her into staying angry with us (mostly DH) so he can remain the GC.

A little background... when DH was married to UBPDXW he went for several years without speaking to his family. She hated them (and they didn't care for her) and she essentially made him choose between she and his children and his parents. It was an awful time for him but he obviously came back to them and has done everything he can (in my opinion) to apologize and make things right. During that time I think MIL just quit doing much of anything and has taken to blaming her current problems on DH. They still say things like "Well that's because DH left for so long." When we moved them out of their last house my MIL's room was pretty much hoarded and I heard my FIL said "Well she just quit doing anything when DH was gone." She even blamed my BIL's immaturity and inability to take care of himself on DH saying "Well I just couldn't parent like I needed to those years when DH was gone."

We have recently put up some boundaries that we will no longer communicate with BIL and MIL about serious family issues over text messaging. BIL is quite a bit younger than we are and is constantly glued to his phone and MIL "Doesn't express herself well in person" and insists on texting too. I sometimes get messages that are 20 paragraphs long. It also became obvious that there were side conversations going on... BIL triangulating with MIL, demanding we communicate with him only and leave her off of text message threads. When DH continued responding to the family text BIL became extremely verbally abusive and demanding. DH then requested that if were were going to continue talking about some of these issue it might be best to include a mental health professional. Initially they both humored the suggestion but when BIL realized DH was serious he began making excuses then outright refused. Expletive-filled text messages full of demands and bullying have been flowing ever since. DH has not responded to these.

I guess I'm still trying to figure out if these are PD issues or just dysfunctional relationships? The boundary violations, manipulation and triangulation just feel all too familiar to what we're dealing with with DH's UBPDXW. I've been reading about going NC but I don't know if it's too soon? This situation feels like it has just kicked up the last few months so it's not like we have years and years of bad behavior to go on... but in the last week it has escalated so quickly it's feeling a little dangerous. 

[bloomie]

Magnolia34 - wow! A lot on your and your DH's plate with all of the in law issues. I am really sorry things have gotten so complex and communication is breaking down.

The good news I see, as I am reading this, is you have already some insights and tools to deal with the behaviors you are encountering from the work you are doing dealing with your DH's ex. I have learned, over time, to focus on behaviors and let the diagnoses be done by the pros.

Your line in the sand that you will no longer communicate about important issues via text is excellent and a similar one we have adopted with a high conflict, drama bound sil regarding care and decisions for my DH's mother.

You describe a very similar dynamic and it is frustrating indeed to have gone to such lengths to make sure they have a safe living space and are financially solid. I can imagine how frustrating the meddling and interjecting of your bil has to be just when things should be settling down.

Are you and your DH in unity about how best to handle the drama and arguing?

Something I learned a long time ago that has really helped me think this kind of thing through... it is in anyones best interest to do as much as they can for themselves as long as they can. In every way. Is it possible to get a social worker to work with you and your mil and make a plan going forward that considers her needs and level of functioning and also yours and your DH's needs and limits?

[Magnolia34]

Thank you, Bloomie! That is a great suggestion. I think I often feel like, if I can put a name on something it's less scary and easier to navigate but you're right. The diagnosis doesn't matter, all we can do is set boundaries on our end to mitigate how their behaviors can impact our lives directly. At this point I think going NC with MIL (I never have much interaction with BIL) is what's best for me. I expect some love bombing/hoovering to begin before too long and I just can't engage in it anymore. My plan is to very calmly tell her that I am no longer able to communicate over text messaging and then let it go.

DH and I are mostly on the same page about handling his family. Unfortunately, because the wellbeing of his father (who he is VERY close to) is tied up in all of this, he is unable to totally disengage.  When he first went into the nursing home DH tried really hard to take over some of the medical decisions being made for my FIL. MIL had made a mess of everything. His medication was all over their house, the floor, his nutrition was very poor and important treatments and procedures had been put off for a very long time. MIL used to cancel FIL's in-home PT appointments because she had so much clutter and mess in the house there was nowhere for PT to take place. As soon as DH started to handle some of those things MIL freaked out, started calling doctors, we suspect she made accusations about DH to someone at the rehab facility FIL was in at the time and he was immediately sent somewhere else. So DH had to let go of those things. I'm really proud of him, actually. He just got to the point that he said "You know... I love my dad, and I have tried to fix a lot of the things they have neglected over the last 10 years, but the one thing I can't change is that he chose to marry my mom... and she's just going to be who she is." All that to say... DH is going to have to stay somewhat involved because most of the financial things are still his responsibility. But honestly, I won't be surprised if BIL makes a play to have MIL cut DH out of that, too.

A social worker is a great idea, but I think we may be past that point. MIL has made it clear that she doesn't trust us, and with BIL driving the boat I think it may be time to just sit back and let them make those decisions for her. She's not in such bad shape, physically, that she can't still be on her own, but her mental health is such a wreck that she probably does need to be at an independent living, at least. Not long after FIL went into the nursing home, BIL called DH and basically said "Mom wants to move to this facility (a very expensive senior living place he decided on) so she's going to put down a deposit tomorrow and she wants to give me her house." I would have flipped my lid, but because DH is smart, he humored BIL and let the financial advisors tell them that if MIL wants to move, she'll have to sell the house to pay for it. DH is doing his best to make sure they have enough money to take care of FIL and MIL for the rest of their lives, but she may just let BIL blow it all, and in the end there's just nothing we can do about it. It's hard to let go of that control when it comes to people you care about and feel responsible for. But like DH says... his dad chose to marry his mom and they've made decisions in their lives that created a bit of a mess. He can only do so much with a crappy set of choices.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hello,

I read your post because I have also had to sort out how to deal with ILs. I myself, have no idea if my ILs would actually "qualify" for a diagnosis or not, or if their dysfunction is just on the high end of the 'dysfunction' scale and low end of 'PD' scale.

No matter...dysfunction is present.

What I thought about regarding your situation, is something I had to realize for myself years ago, when I went NC with my ILs. I realized that the boundaries I set with them, would actually preserve what (little) DH is still able to get from being around his own parents as they aged.

This took some work on my part to get here emotionally, so I'm happy to share my thoughts on this here, in case it helps you too:

Mantra #1: These are DH's parents. My assumption about your DH is that he plans to stay in their life, and manage the things you are describing regarding MIL and FIL's level of health / health needs, financial stuff...if he is also contemplating NC, that changes things a bit. But it sounds like your DH is in it and is the one able to make decisions as MIL and FIL age.

As I read through your post, I thought about how NC is not always 'declared' and 'final'. I mean, sometimes it is, and that is valid too.

But in some cases, in some relationships, we realize, oh man, I really need a break, here, I really need to pull back and get re-grounded in my own life for a while.

What you describe with MIL, is disorienting - it would disorient anyone, you are feeling the stress because her triangulation and other behaviours are stressful to deal with / manage / hear about.

It is completely valid, as a DIL to say to yourself - I am taking a break from communicating with BIL and MIL. I'll support DH and be there for him to vent about it, help him with decisions he's making etc...but I need a break from them..

That is a completely valid stance. Will MIL and BIL be happy about it? Probably not. Your MIL may not be in a position to really understand what is going on for her...trying to figure out what is going on for you, and sympathizing with your stress level right now, is very likely a bridge too far for her.

When I had to decide if / when I would re-engage my ILs after I decided I needed a break from them, I thought about the bigger picture. As these people age, DH wants to preserve his positive memories of these people. Me and my need (for some healthy family dynamics a few times a year at family gatherings), was beside the point.

It took me a few years to really realize that.

So there I was, with a MIL and FIL, and every time I was around them, I felt nothing but stress and anger when I was around them. How would that help my marriage long term? I asked myself...and perhaps you can ask yourself, if there are options for you to support DH, and pull away from the stressful things going on too.

My DH is in contact with his parents, and I am not. I support him in his goals, to keep in contact with them these days. Those are his goals. My goals, were about preserving my sanity.

Sometimes we give our family system the 'gift' of a mature decision that preserves our own sanity and health. Do they see it as a gift. Ha ha ha. No they do not.

Anything but.

They may have been this way his entire life, or maybe DH remembers when they were not this self-absorbed. Either way, I do think that our "job" as the wife and the DIL in these families, is to first do no harm (to ourselves).

Too many PD'd families see the DIL as a sacrificial lamb to their on-going toxicity and I am not here for it! You be you, be strong and be clear with yourself. What boundaries would make your life less stressful right now? What level of communication / visiting / contact / decision making would you want for yourself, in this family you married into, that is not your FOO.

Just because we had a level of contact with people in the past, does not mean they are entitled to it, the rest of their lives. I think this is especially true for daughter-in-laws. There's only so much we can do in a IL family that stresses us out.

Hope that helps,

Trees

[Poison Ivy]

This: "Sometimes we give our family system the 'gift' of a mature decision that preserves our own sanity and health."

[Magnolia34]

Tree,

Thank you so much for the thoughtful response. I think a "break" is exactly what I had in mind. DH will still have to engage with them some, but he's doing a great job with boundaries and knowing when he can and can't fix something. I'm really proud of him. He recognizes the patterns and decision making that have gotten them to this place and wants to avoid doing the same (thank you very much!) so he's drawing really appropriate lines for himself.
MIL definitely can't sympathize or understand the stress we're under in other areas of our lives. As has happened in the past... she'll probably be distant for awhile, waiting for everything to blow over or for someone else to extend the olive branch. When she doesn't get either of those reactions she'll start sending long, sappy text messages "wishing we could all be together again." I definitely don't think NC will be a "forever" thing, but IF I hear from her any time soon my plan is to kindly tell her that I really need some distance from the situation and just can't talk about it at this time. Like most people without boundaries, I know this will frustrate and upset her but I can't help that.
I think you made a good point that stepping away for a time can allow DH to maintain a healthier relationship with them.
THIS!! "Just because we had a level of contact with people in the past, does not mean they are entitled to it, the rest of their lives." Man do I forget that. They aren't my FOO and while I care for them, I just can't be helpful (to them or myself) by continuing to engage in a relationship with  them right now.