How can I be sure it's them and not me? Maybe I'm disordered and projecting.

[feenix]

I wasn't sure where to post this, hopefully this is the right place.

For the last 15 years, I've been under the impression that my FOO was dysfunctional. uN father and co-dependent, enabling mother. She might have traits of a disorder herself, but mostly I see her as being a helpless victim who has sacrificed her life in support of her husband and children. She has had anger issues in the past and neither of them are capable of emotional support.

I also believed that I chose similarly dysfunctional partners for myself, and married a very narcissistic man and in some ways unconsciously followed the role of my mother. Years later I'm more educated, I'm divorced, alone and thought I was well on the path of recovery.

But now I'm having doubts. Could I be in denial of my own dysfunction and projecting my own issues onto others. I feel confused and guilty, not knowing what to do, or how to handle what's going on now.

I've recently been dragged back into the situation. I had been low contact for quite a while. My parents are in their early 90's. They have a very toxic relationship and go through cycles of not talking to each other. They both blame each other for their problems and unhappiness. It used to be only mum who would complain about dad. But now he has written a long and detailed letter to my sister and me criticizing her for basically ruining their entire marriage and absolving himself of any blame or further responsibility. While we were living at home, most of the blame was directed at me first, as the scapegoat, and then my sister until she left. Now they only have each other to blame for everything.

My mother seems to be in the very early stages of dementia now and has short term memory problems and her judgement is not so good. She recently tried to step up on a chair without help and fell and needed stitches. But she didn't tell anyone about it until the next day. She said it was because she thought it wasn't bad enough, but she is also very stubborn and didn't want to have to talk to my father to ask for help, because they are not talking at the moment. She had gone to the pharmacy to buy some dressings (she still drives) and the pharmacist had told her she needed stitches, so she went home, swallowed her pride and told my father. He drove her to the hospital, but didn't stay with her. He came home and phoned me to tell me what had happened. He didn't seem concerned about her, he was angry and blaming her, it was like it was very annoying to him. I got the impression that he was expecting I would jump in and take over the responsibility of her and the situation. I phoned the hospital for more information, but he hadn't put me on the next of kin list, so they couldn't tell me very much. I phoned several times over the next hour, trying to get information about what was going on, by the time I was able to talk to someone helpful, my mother had already gone home.

This all happened about a week ago, and since then, I've been more involved with them and the situation than I have been for a long time. My sister has stayed out of it this time, which is fine, we are both emotionally wounded from our childhoods and in recovery, neither of us has good health physically.  She also has problems dealing with them, she was the golden child of our father, but when she stopped playing the role, things changed a bit. We support each other most of the time. But it's still very difficult. We both struggle with anxiety and physical health issues.

I dissociate when I have contact with them, it's the only way I can function. I kind of lose touch with my own reality and it takes me several days to find my emotional balance again..... and now, I'm doubting everything I've believed about them, myself and my life, that I learned over the last 15 years. What if I'm imagining they are dysfunctional and it's really me, projecting my dysfunctions onto them in order to avoid responsibility. I always was a very selfish child, much too sensitive and intentionally difficult, or so I was told. Perhaps I'm being selfish, irresponsible and ungrateful.

I just had a visit from my daughter, she's in her mid 20's now. She was supposed to visit her grandparents today, but her grandma cancelled the visit, saying that neither of them were feeling well.  I don't think my father even knew my daughter was going to visit, I doubt he would have wanted to cancel the visit if he knew.  I never really know what's going on between them. They both lie and are manipulative rather than be open and honest. Up until recently, I've sort of protected my daughter from the worst of the family dysfunction, they have always put on an act in front of her and I've only talked about the problems in a very general kind of way. But with the possible dementia and recent deterioration, I thought she should know the truth. Because she really hasn't seen much evidence of it herself, she was a bit shocked and seemed doubtful about the whole personality disorder thing. She was asking me if I thought there was a possibility they would cooperate with each other, sit and discuss things maturely so that we could come up with a plan for their care. It all sounded so sane and normal. Of course that's what we should do. But then the cognitive dissonance returned. That just isn't how things work in my family. She advised me to just let them get on with it together for now, to let things play out a bit more. To keep some distance and wait for things to fall apart more, until they have to face reality. But I wonder how much of reality I'm facing. Half the time I don't know what the truth is... from either of them....and now I'm doubting my own reality.

How can I be sure they are dysfunctional and difficult to deal with, and it's not me.  I'm confused, anxious and not functioning very well right now. How can I be sure what's real?

[escapingman]

feenix, if it was you, you wouldn't be writing this. It's them, they have projected this onto you all your life. Of course you are going to suffer from some fleas and other mental issues. You say you have been healing over the years but it has come back now. What did you do to heal? Have you got a therapist, or did you use to have one? Stay strong and look after yourself!

[Cat of the Canals]

feenix, if it was you, you wouldn't be writing this.

THIS THIS THIS.

In my experience with my NPD/BPD mother and BPD mil, they never EVER ask if they have caused or even contributed to the problem. They are always wholly innocent. I believe it's because they have a built-in, knee-jerk denial that refuses to even allow the to consider that they might be "wrong." 

The closest you might get to something resembling "taking fault" is when they waif. "Oh, I guess I'm just a terrible parent. The worst parent in the world. This is all my fault." Etc. But this of course is not genuine.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I always was a very selfish child, much too sensitive and intentionally difficult, or so I was told.

This stands out a mile high. Always selfish, eh? Intentionally difficult? Well, newsflash, children generally are bottomless pits of needs. It's the parents' job to meet the children's needs, not the other way around. In narcissistic families, this fact is all backwards and upside down, with the parent and child roles reversed. And you weren't just selfish, you were ALWAYS so. And you were that way ON PURPOSE, just to spite your parents. Because your actions must be about them. You are doubtful of your own motivations then and now, but people who actually can't read your mind have no doubts and have been certain for your whole life. This is as classic as it gets.

You've been healing for fifteen years, and have just spent a week in the midst of the dysfunction, caretaking again. Why was it necessary for you to get through to the hospital, for example? You tried so hard for a terminally selfish person.

Here's the thing, which I'm sure you know, but it's hard to think straight when you're distressed and overwhelmed by present FOO: Your parents don't get to define you. The labels they are putting on you do not have to stick. You observed they have a thing with always needing somebody to blame. First you, then sis, then last and least satisfactory, each other. Blame for what, exactly? Their problems, their unhappiness, their MARRIAGE?!?!? Um, no. That's their stuff, not yours.

Blaming you makes no damn sense. The blame belongs to them, and heck yeah they have projected it all over you from your earliest childhood. It's the air you breathed. How could you know any different then? You as an adult have taken healthy responsibility for yourself and learned so much in 15 years.

But even so, old habits die hard. Seeing your parents as elderly and frail is setting off those old "I'm responsible!" alarms. You aren't. Your daughter's advice is mostly sound. Even though she doesn't have a full picture of the dysfunction, (because you were a parent and protected the child instead of putting all the problems on to her!) she's right about taking a step back and letting your parents run their own lives. Even if it means things fall apart for them. Even if they make stupid choices. Even if they blame you for it. Sounds like they're hellbent on doing exactly that no matter what you do.

[feenix]

Thank you escapingman, Cat of the Canals, and Call Me Cordelia. Your responses have helped me see reality again. Something I just learned from this is just how vulnerable I am, to falling into the old programmed thought patterns about myself, and losing my own value.

Years ago, my mother admitted that the reason she had me was to enhance her own experience of life. She said that after being married to my father for 10 years, she had become bored and lonely. She thought having a child would add new meaning to her life. Originally, neither of them had wanted any children. So I guess there was no hope for me, with a start like that.  My purpose from birth was to make her life better. My sister was an 'accident', and my mother had tried to terminate the pregnancy when she found out. She didn't hesitate to tell us this. Even if a pregnancy wasn't planned, I wouldn't dream of telling a child that. If anything, you call it a wonderful surprise or something similar. I don't now what's worse, being born to serve someone else's needs, or not being wanted at all.

Anyway, I'm just rambling now. Thanks again for the replies.

When I get emotionally triggered by being dragged back into the dysfunction, I forget everything I've learned. I need to figure out how to still be there for them when I'm really needed, without losing myself.

[feenix]

...You say you have been healing over the years but it has come back now. What did you do to heal? Have you got a therapist, or did you use to have one?...

I did some therapy and attended groups, soon after I discovered narcissism was a thing. Initially, it was to help me deal with my marriage issues, but I soon learned that my problems had their roots in my childhood, that the patterns of my thoughts and beliefs about myself and the world, had been programmed into me by my parents, for their benefit, not mine, and that the choices I had made in life, were a result of those false beliefs and my own subsequent dysfunction. I chose abusive friends and partners, because that's what I felt comfortable with.

Most of my healing, I think has come from continuing to learn and by creating boundaries to protect myself. Realizing that I have a right to protect myself was key, so going low contact, and medium chill has been very nourishing to my soul. Learning the technique of grey rock, has also been very helpful, first when going through separation, divorce and co-parenting, then later when dealing with my parents.

I'm considering counselling again, especially if I find myself in more of a caretaking role for one of my parents in the future. I might need some professional emotional support to help me get through it. I don't think I have the capability of handling the demands of caring for someone who is old, with dementia and also a personality disorder, not by myself anyway.

[Cat of the Canals]

I'm considering counselling again, especially if I find myself in more of a caretaking role for one of my parents in the future. I might need some professional emotional support to help me get through it. I don't think I have the capability of handling the demands of caring for someone who is old, with dementia and also a personality disorder, not by myself anyway.

Please, please carefully consider whether or not you are truly in a position to become a caretaker before volunteering to do so. It is not your duty or obligation to take that on. You mentioned in your original post that you have your own physical health issues in addition to the anxiety. I obviously don't know the specifics of your situation or that of your parents, but it doesn't sound like this would be good for you. And if it would ease any guilt you have, consider that it might not be the best thing for your parents, either. You can't properly care for others until you've cared for yourself.

You also might consider counselling now rather than later. It sounds like dealing with your parents in any capacity has serious emotional effects on you (I can empathize), and if you're going to have even limited contact with them, it might be helpful to have some additional support. Perhaps even someone to back you up and say, "You are making the right choice."

[feenix]

I'm considering counselling again, especially if I find myself in more of a caretaking role for one of my parents in the future. I might need some professional emotional support to help me get through it. I don't think I have the capability of handling the demands of caring for someone who is old, with dementia and also a personality disorder, not by myself anyway.

Please, please carefully consider whether or not you are truly in a position to become a caretaker before volunteering to do so. It is not your duty or obligation to take that on. You mentioned in your original post that you have your own physical health issues in addition to the anxiety. I obviously don't know the specifics of your situation or that of your parents, but it doesn't sound like this would be good for you. And if it would ease any guilt you have, consider that it might not be the best thing for your parents, either. You can't properly care for others until you've cared for yourself.

You also might consider counselling now rather than later. It sounds like dealing with your parents in any capacity has serious emotional effects on you (I can empathize), and if you're going to have even limited contact with them, it might be helpful to have some additional support. Perhaps even someone to back you up and say, "You are making the right choice."

Thank you for this. Yes I will definitely not jump into something I wont be able to handle. In my heart, I know I can't do it, just a short time of contact with them has a negative effect on my emotional and physical health. It's the feelings of guilt and obligation which get to me, making me think that I should be able to take care of them. I can see it's a continuation of the old pattern of me ignoring my feelings and limitations. The expectations of other people are more important than me. My feelings, preferences, limitations and difficulties were irrelevant when I was a child, and I can see my automatic tendency to push them aside now.

It helps to have other people see this too and remind me. Thank you.

[Prototypian]

I can say that I completely understand how you feel.   I don't know how to make you feel better or how to prove you're not "PD", "nuts" or whatever label there is for the way that PDs express their behaviors when you're trying to live normally.

I can say that my behaviors aren't PD but they do manifest in a desire to avoid or not have conflict and sometimes healthy conflict and discussion of issues should occur.

I guess that's called "fleas" when the impact that a PD has had on your behavior bleeds over.

Ive learned that one critical difference between someone with a disorder and a non PD is that the disorder person doesn't believe they have anything wrong.   They don't typically have remorse, they see what they are doing as "necessary" or "right" and the world is wrong.  Someone with anxiety or nervousness or alcoholism or nail biting would feel like something was wrong and eventually would seek help.   My spouse with OCPD has zero tolerance for anything not "right" in her view.   

You should trust your counselor especially if your are open and honest with them and continue to believe that you aren't wrong and that you are worthy of someone treating you well.