Constant demands to see us

[OutlawSally]

I've been lurking here for a while, and I've found this forum very validating and helpful in my interactions with my uPD inlaws. Journaling my experiences has also been helpful.

One behavior I stuggle to deal with is the constant demands on our time. Usually this is in the form of social gatherings, lunches, dinners etc. The inlaws are very social people, and they have a lot of friends they see regularly. But even if they have no "free time" they will often insist we come to social engagements with them and their friends. It's common for us to see them every weekend for a full day and sometimes during the week. We live about an hour an a half from them and both work full-time so our weekends are precious. They frequently request we stay the night and make a weekend out of it and guilt trip us when we don't.

No amount of time spent with them is ever enough. We often arrive for lunch at their house at around 12, and struggle to leave before 9pm. When we say it's time to go, we are often faced with theatrics, for example MIL throwing her head back and wailing "Noooooooo!" and then wanting to know when we can see them next "Next week? During the week? 3 weeks away! *dramatic gasp* Nooooo, that's too long!".  Or they try to stop us or delay us leaving, e.g asking us to stay the night and "work from home" tomorrow. They don't understand (or choose not to understand) that's not how working from home works.

Over Christmas we stayed with them for 10 days. During which time MIL complained we "weren't spending enough time together" when we left the house to visit other friends. When it was time to leave after 10 days MIL burst into tears because "she was going to miss us so much" and wanted to know "when would she see us again? Next weekend?".

There is no recognition that we a) have other things to do b) would like to spend time alone together or c) the absence of plans does not mean we are free to spend time with them.

I often feel put on the spot by them, which I'm working on. Requests to see us are often framed like "what are you doing on xxx date? Nothing? Great, we'll go and do this together!". It bothers me they never ask if I want to do things with them, it's only ever framed as when I have free time. I try not to agree to things on the spot and DH no longer to agrees for us to see them without checking with me first otherwise our diary becomes completely dominated by them. But it's a constant battle and if we decline an invite we get a lot of guilt-tripping/pouting and demands that we make it up another time in the near future. For example "you can't do Saturday night? Oh no, well how about Thursday? No? Wednesday then".

Obviously this goes along with a lot of other PD behaviors that I haven't touched on which is why I'm posting here.

What I want to know is does anyone else experience this? How do you deal with it? Are the constant demands to see us a PD behavior or something else?

[GentleSoul]

I relate very much to what you share.  My late parents and late husband were like this.  No respect or thought that I had other things I may want to be doing.

I think the only thing we can do is set boundaries, try and ignore the theatrics and emotional manipulation.  Far easier said than done, of course.

I think they do understand they are overstepping but do it anyway.  I have found with PD people  however much you give is never going to be enough as you mention too.   They are like a bottomless pit. 

I agree that keeping a journal is a huge help.  Seeing it all on paper/screen helps clarity.

I just really wanted to say that I understand.  I think when you do take action, they will react badly.  It is just what they do.  Always.

Take care.

[palmtreeparadise]

I relate to this a bit as well - but my gosh.. your inlaws seem super extreme!! I commend you for handling it well so far! I would have lost my mind. My inlaws try to make monthly dinners happen and even then thats too much for me haahah.... I think the constant demands can be PD Behavior - i think at times in laws like a sense of control and making traditions and expecting us to comply. I've dealt with this just by saying no - thats a full sentence. If i don't feel like going i say no and im too busy. I think after rejecting invites for a while they have taken a step back which has been great for me.

I would set boundaries - stay busy... and the 1 hour and 1/2 distance is insane! I guess my advice would be to slowly set boundaries, get them used to not seeing you as often and not being as accessible. I'd hope they would understand and get used to it. And maybe monthly dinners would be best for you guys.

[SonofThunder]

OutlawSally,

A warm welcome to you here on the boards 😃.  Im glad you decided to pull up a chair around the campfire and join the discussions.  I agree with the other replies regarding proper, protective, truthful designed  boundaries.   Also, i want to suggest you visit, learn about and practice the useful tools in the toolbox tab at the top of the page.  Along with properly constructed boundaries, I highly recommend medium-chill, noJADE, the 50% rule and the 51% rule. 

As the others have stated, I agree that your new potential boundaries will not be well received and so having these tools at the ready (both you and your DH) will be very helpful to you. 

Also, you wrote:  "... and DH no longer to agrees for us to see them without checking with me first otherwise our diary becomes completely dominated by them". 

Have you and your DH always been in agreement that your time with his parents is unbalanced vs time spent as a couple, with your parents, friends, sibs etc, or has the desired change only been a proactive desire on your part?   From your sentence, I am assuming that your in-laws only prior contacted your DH and he said yes to unbalanced amounts of time (his time also), without asking you. 

In my long history with my uPDw, my in-laws were very demanding on my wife and she was raised to be a 'yes' daughter to her parents or suffer. So when we were married, my uPDw expected I was along for the ride and if complained, i would pay a PD price (just like she did with her mother....hypocrisy at its finest lol).  Although not a problem you described, my uPDw would also proactively and progressively isolate me (using manipulation prior to my coming Out of the FOG) from visiting my own family and friends.  I now suspect my MIL (a potential PD) was doing the same thing, trying to prevent her daughter from developing relationships and retaining as much control as possible. 

I say this only if there is possibly a desire of your MIL, to prevent you or her son from developing better relationships with your parents, family or friends, each other (therefore losing control of herself) to hold onto as much control possible of her son, by guilt-manipulating the available time.   

Again, welcome!

SoT

[Cat of the Canals]

No amount of time spent with them is ever enough. We often arrive for lunch at their house at around 12, and struggle to leave before 9pm. When we say it's time to go, we are often faced with theatrics, for example MIL throwing her head back and wailing "Noooooooo!" and then wanting to know when we can see them next "Next week? During the week? 3 weeks away! *dramatic gasp* Nooooo, that's too long!".  Or they try to stop us or delay us leaving, e.g asking us to stay the night and "work from home" tomorrow. They don't understand (or choose not to understand) that's not how working from home works.

I think we have the same MIL. Except when we said it was time for us to go, she'd go ice cold and say, "WHY." Uhhhhh... because we don't live here? Because we have jobs and pets and a home we need to get back to?

With my own PDmom, the moment I walk into the door, after driving 2 hours to visit, she clings to me and whines, "I NEVER GET TO SEEEEEEE YOU!"

You hit the nail on the head when you said that no matter how much time you give, it's never enough.

The solution? Stop trying to fill that bottomless pit of need. Stop agreeing to visit so often. They will whine. Cajole. Cry. Guilt trip. But they do that even when you give them what they want, don't they?

When they try to put you on the spot, refuse to give an answer. "I'll have to check my calendar and get back to you!" Then you can send a quick text or email later and say, "Sorry, we won't be able to make it." 

It took me far too long to realize that "not having specific plans to do something social" was not the same thing as "not having plans." You are entitled to decide how and when you spend your free time. Sometimes we just want to relax at home and not have to DO anything. So "nothing" is no longer in your vocabulary when they ask what you have planned for a specific day.

I'd also suggest coming up with an amount of time you are comfortable spending with them. You say right now that you see them every weekend plus a day during the week? Maybe you decide you're willing to do a single visit, every other week, no overnights. Maybe you decide that once a month is more than enough (that's my particular feeling with both my parents and my in-laws, lol). Whatever it is, set a boundary for yourself and stick to it.

You are NOT obligated to be your in-laws' social life.

[Boat Babe]

All of the above is excellent advice. My suggestion is that you start planning things to do at the weekend. Then you can say with perfect sincerity "Sorry, can't make it next weekend, we're going to ....... "  Slowly start having a life outside of these people.

[OutlawSally]

Thanks to everyone for replying. I'm sensing that although my inlaws may be more extreme, the demands for visits, guilt and manipulation is something that other experience. Glad it's not just me! Thanks for understanding. Friends and even family who haven't experienced it can pass this behavior off as just being the result of a close and loving family, but it's more insidious than that. Inviting us is one thing, but demanding to see us, not accepting "no" and manipulating is not loving.

GentleSoul you're right, it is a bottomless pit which can't be filled, and trying is fruitless. Cat of the Canals - agree! I've found that when we enforce boundaries and visit less, it actually reduces some of the manipulation and extreme behavior. The more we see them, the more they seem to want.

SonofThunder; you're right, they inlaws would contact DH, who would just agree to see them without checking with me unless there was something else in the diary. I don't think he thought about what he would actually want to do. It became unbalanced, but I'm not sure he realized until I raised it. He's grown up as the beloved GC which he says is "a lot of pressure". He is an only child, and often says he wishes he had a sibling to take the heat off him. The obsessiveness over him is justified in the family because they love him so much. So he equates demands for time = love. The guilt-trips can be viewed as what loving parents do when they miss you. I am a laid-back personality, and like you I was welcomed into the family but expected to go along with what the inlaws wanted and not expected to have any desires of my own. Any plans I had were always viewed as flexible, and could be cancelled if something in the family came up. This includes my work "just call in sick" is a frequent request if I can't see them because I'm at my job. I don't know if they are trying to isolate me; perhaps. I'll think on it.

Excellent advice, JADE is new to me, and definitely something I do but I'm trying not to! It just invites negotiation. I need to stop using "nothing" to describe down-time as well. We started setting boundaries but I naively thought once they were set that's job done; the constant pushing and re-enforcing is exhausting!

[GentleSoul]

Many thanks for all the sharing in this thread.

I had to come back to it, something had been bothering me about a person but I couldn't identify what it was.

Just a casual friend I go walking with now and then.  We get on well.  BUT each time we end out walk and go our separate ways he says to me "keep in touch".

It screams at my nervous system, makes it cringe.  It is the tone of voice he says it.  Triggers old trauma in me.

It triggers the fear in me of being trapped into doing something out of a feeling of obligation which has been a big issue my whole life, especially for victim playing types of people. 

A very deep seated fear.  Now I have named it and put it in the light, I suspect I will be able to process it and it will leave my body.

[Cat of the Canals]

Just a warning that they might start "popping in" when you slow down the visits. This is what my MIL did. She'd just show up at our house or text to "let us know" she was on her way. We work from home, so this was extremely disruptive to our schedule, and my husband (eventually) asked her to stop doing it. Spoiler alert: she did not.

I say this not to freak you out or anything, but to give you a chance to think about how you'll handle it if they start barging in, uninvited. Nip it in the bud early and fast. It's what we should have done, but I wasn't Out of the FOG then, and I was trained to be a people pleaser. If there are any unscheduled visits, or attempts to drop in on short notice, tell them firmly that they need to arrange visits with you several days or even a week in advance. If they do it again after you set the boundary, don't even answer the door.

[SonofThunder]

OutlawSally,

In my experiences, the PDparent attempts to isolate their own child with proactive guilt trips regarding unbalanced expectations and mind-games, so their own child, now married, doesnt start spending new or balanced time with the spouses parents, sibs, and new friends because of the marriage. 

I personally believe some non-PD (yet emotionally immature) parents, attempt this also.  I was asking whether your in-laws were trying to isolate their son, and so you, (his wife) and her family/sibs/friends get cast aside as non-important.  That was my experience, not only with my MIL, but with my uPDw.  My family, sibs, friends were non-important to both my uPDw (manipulated me) and my MIL, who manipulated my uPDw. 

After my reading the book 'Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents', I am able to understand the difference between what I grew up with (uNPDf) vs the E.I (Emotionally Immature) parent.  EI parents can be very selfish as they focus on themselves, but the book mentions the difference between EI and disorder is 'predation', meaning the disordered purposefully desire to gain (+) at the expense (-) of another.  The disordered feed on this predator manipulation, gaslighting and control.

SoT

[Jolie40]

The inlaws are very social people, and they have a lot of friends they see regularly.  We live about an hour an a half from them and both work full-time so our weekends are precious.

there is absolutely no need to spend time with THEIR friends

you and your husband deserve a life and free time together on the weekends
plan weekends together for you both even if it's to stay home & relax from work week

when MIL asks if you have plans, say YES
when she insists to know what your plans are...

be brave & say "we're planning on having lots of sex all weekend"
maybe she won't ask again, lol

[OutlawSally]

Haha Jolie, I wouldn't DARE. She loves and intimate chat (even if it's about her son 🤮) and she's far too likely to up the ante!

[OutlawSally]

And thanks for the recommendation SonofThunder, I’ve seen that book mentioned on here and I need to check it out. It could be emotional immaturity, there are just so many bizarre behaviors that I struggle to explain, other than the constant need to see us. It’s like normal social rules don’t apply in the twilight zone of the family.