Another piece of the puzzle

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I haven't posted about my own situation in a while, and I wanted to share the latest puzzle piece that clicked into place.

Around the new year, I was away from home. I rarely speak to him while away but there was an important and time sensitive matter so I called, and to my surprise he answered the phone.

Normally when I'm away for a while, he is nicer for a while -absence makes the heart blah blah. But I was quite surprised at how hostile he was, and then it struck me that he was very confused about what day it was and, worse, had no idea if it was day or night.

But he calmed down after a bit and his insight returned and he identified on his own that he was confused, and explained he was ill. He also said he was experiencing some weird things, and I realized he was in a delusional state like he had been a handful of times prior. 

I did some searches and found that viral illnesses can in fact trigger delusions in some circumstances, and given he already had a history, it seems to be evident that a virus can trigger it for him.

The thing that stood out for me was the term "neuroinflammation."

I have said many times that I feel my H's situation is different from others here, and I think I've put my finger on it.

My H doesn't really have mood swings. It's more like, when he wakes up, I can see the weather for the day. It could be calm. Rarely he might be "present." Often, he is checked out. Some days I know it's going to be a bad one. Maybe a tornado. And it doesn't really have anything to do with anything unless there is a specific stressor (like going to visit his mom or something).

Well, now I have a term for that: neuroinflammation.

Some days he is inflamed. His paranoia is high. His PD tactics are very strong.

Some days the inflammation is low. Those are the days I get to see the empathic, intelligent guy I fell in love with.

Obviously, PD isn't what most would consider to be the primary issue - he's a paranoid paychotic... sometimes. But all of it rises when his CNS is inflamed. That's why I get different guys on different days.

Here's an example of how oddly insightful he is. We discussed his mental state (after he had regained equalibrium) and I mentioned some of the stuff I read. I tentatively mentioned paranoia. That is a very, very hard thing for someone to admit to experiencing. Very hard. You're basically saying, yeah, I'm crazy, and my thoughts and feelings are not always based on reality. That's... damn near impossible. But he admitted that paranoia might be a reasonable description.

He of course could not admit that in a paranoid state... nobody could. But to admit it at all? Wow.

[SonofThunder]

Hi Square,

Im glad you are gaining some insight into your situation.  At the same time, that sounds very difficult and confusing to deal with on your part.   I will keep you in thought and prayer for growing peace in your life. 

SoT

[1footouttadefog]

My spouse became delusional and disoriented the last few times I traveled and he was home alone.  He readily admits he thought he heard people talking in the basement. 

When he is off wack he typically has a level of paranoia.  It's more they type such that he filters everything through a "everyone is working against me and to world has been made comoli cc ated to make me look bad" filter.  So it seems more reality based in that he is not imagining the FBI is after him nor are Russian Spies and aliens involved. 

I had noticed a trend that these episodes often came on with illness and after this past spring and summer with all the "I can't breath"drama and the sinus surgeries and the abuse of 12 hour nasal spray I like you found a piece of our puzzle.  12 hour nasal spray when used in excess can have a systemic effect and cause vasoconstriction in the brain while simultaneously slowing the heart rate. 

So I have a puzzle piece on the table with a few more. A few are even snapped to others.  In the mean time the rest are getting lost from the box as time goes on.  This past is littered with pieces of the puzzle that cannot be retrieved.  Probably most of them in reality. 

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1foot, that all makes sense. It sounds like your husband is always PD but neuroinflammation makes paranoia worse, plus I guess creates hallucinations and maybe delusions. He may or may not have LBD or some other neurological disease, but either way, neuroinflammation sounds like a factor. And the substance use sounds like a major contributor.

I don't know but I've wondered for a long time if Adderall was the precipitating factor for my H. I now see that his history of psychosis goes all the way back to childhood, as there were several events (neither of us understood them in that framework, and I haven't told him my relatively recent revelations yet either). So the thing was there the whole time but he really changed over a particular period of time, about a year.

Yes, our husbands have a similar paranoia type. Mine feels like the universe is against him. He doesn't feel watched or anything, no FBI type stuff.

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SoT, your empathic thoughts and prayers are very much appreciated.

My husband's psychosis is significant and has been consequential. And I've felt as afraid as I've ever been during some of these episodes - not that he is violent or threatening, but it's quite frightening all the same when it's just me and a man who is entirely out of his mind, having locked himself out of the house at 4am while being sent on the craziest missions by unseen entities, and knowing he is beyond the reach of any reason at all.

The thing is, if I could wish either the psychosis or the PD away, it would be the PD. In a heartbeat. Don't have to think twice.

I could love my psychotic husband. I could love him with my whole heart. His particular type of psychosis, well, this is maybe odd to say, but it reveals a heart that I love, crazy as it is. The things swirling around his psyche, I'll take them all.

His delusions have nothing to do with me. I'm not his enemy.

But the PD has caused a massive rift between us. It's every day, whereas the delusional states are like once a year. The PD says I am his enemy. The PD has cut his empathy off. I'm only human and I can't love with my whole heart someone who will only hurt me to save himself.

Even the calm days, and those have been the norm lately, are only an uneasy truce. He'll strike my heel in an instant and I can't forget it. There's a wall, because there can be no trust.

[Poison Ivy]

I know someone who does not have a PD but has had some mental health issues. Among them was a brief but intense psychotic episode many years ago, after the person accidentally took too much Adderall. I firmly believe that some substances, legal and not illegal, can cause temporary or permanent brain problems.

[SonofThunder]

Square, that sounds very difficult to deal with and Im sorry that he suffers with both and you are in the line of fire. 

You wrote:

"The thing is, if I could wish either the psychosis or the PD away, it would be the PD. In a heartbeat. Don't have to think twice.  I could love my psychotic husband. I could love him with my whole heart. His particular type of psychosis, well, this is maybe odd to say, but it reveals a heart that I love, crazy as it is. The things swirling around his psyche, I'll take them all." 

This is such a powerful statement, not only regarding the amount of mental focus and mental energy you have to deal with, but also toward dealing with personality disorders in general.  Your experiences both with PD and psychosis in the same person shed light on the comparative difficulties of being the predation-target of a personality disorder vs compassionate caregiver to a loved-one with a mental disability. 

Thoughts and prayers for peace,

SoT

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PI, yes, one of H's worst episodes may have been triggered by an accidental extra dose of Adderall. He doesn't abuse it, just sincerely has almost no memory for having performed routine tasks and can easily forget whether he took a dose that day or not (and is not really able to order himself eg use a weekly pill box). Since then he has been much more careful. But it's possible there was no extra dose - he was also experiencing seasonal mania. But it really could have been both, as well.

SoT, your use of the word "predation" gave me some pause because I both do and don't associate that with my husband. He is purely reactive, never sets up weird PD situations as a "gotcha" or power play or anything. He gets triggered, he goes PD. Otherwise, no. Though triggers can certainly be false, as in rising paranoia.

But all the same, I am the prey when he's triggered. It's not a cat and mouse game. I'm just the thing that must be metaphorically stomped.

I think a lot about human nature, and it seems that we have an instinct to dominate others rather than connect sometimes. The connection between two people leads to an increase for both. Domination leads to one being above the other but both are ultimately decreased.

I just wish that in all of our marriages, even if not necessarily elsewhere, we were on the path to increase each other. We are human and fallible and we always hurt each other, in our seperateness, so realistically it's not some utopia. But some couples feel like they can lean on each other.

PD is like autocannibalism in a way, in its destruction. And they have no idea how much they are decreasing themselves.

[SonofThunder]

Square,

Thanks for the interesting feedback on your experiences and thoughts regarding predation, PD's and marriage in general. 

My experiences with my PD people are that their actions and reactions feed off me/others for some need/gain, whether it be a quiet internal need or a more obvious external one.  When I or others I know are not cooperative with the PD's internal desire to feed, manipulation of persons, situations or assets (tangible or intangible such as energy, skills, talents or time) will be attempted in order to feed successfully and/or to bring the target into compliance, all at a cost to the target in some manner. 

I personally do not believe i operate in this way, but I am also hyper-aware of these traits in others because of my experiences.  Like you stated, i surely experience competitive dominance natures in others, and I am surely competitive in ways (sports, business success, financial management) but the PD people in my life seem to thrive on reducing others for their gain and/or control, vs simply increasing themselves compared to others using legal and ethical methods. 

Again, so sorry you experience both PD and psychosis.  May you experience growing peace in your life. 

SoT

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Yeah, compliance, that's it.

My H doesn't require "feed" in the sense of attention, compliments, pity. But the things he does require - me to make a decision for him, and my reassurance, mainly - he will just stomp all over any sense of reason or fairness to get my compliance for. He genuinely feels I owe these things to him, with nary a thought in the world as to what he may likewise owe me.

By nature I am not dominating and sincerely do not enjoy being "over" another person - UNLESS I perceive that person to have done so to another, more vulnerable person. Then I feel the need to put that person in their place. It's an innate and primitive sense of justice, I suppose. And sometimes I've relished putting someone in their place who thought he could dominate me. Otherwise I naturally much prefer a cooperative framework.

This impulse to justice is probably pretty effective overall - it keeps people somewhat in line if they get blowback for being unfair. But with PDs, that blowback doesn't work. Heck, it can even backfire and make them more resentful and selfish - because they genuinely cannot perceive what is fair. We try harder and harder to signal they are out of line, to no avail.

Sorry for the ramble.

[SonofThunder]

Square,

I enjoy all the back and forth, so "ramble" on!  😊.  You wrote:

"This impulse to justice is probably pretty effective overall - it keeps people somewhat in line if they get blowback for being unfair. But with PDs, that blowback doesn't work. Heck, it can even backfire and make them more resentful and selfish - because they genuinely cannot perceive what is fair. We try harder and harder to signal they are out of line, to no avail. "

I fully agree with and experienced this, and have personally chosen to leave behind my attempts at gaining justice.  I just want to live in as calm a condition as possible, for my own physical and mental health.  Me attempting any justice, seems to destroy any calm and I can find my needed strength from other sources than attempted justice. 

But i understand your defending vulnerable people who cannot help themselves (young children, elderly, handicapped, animals).  With me, if the 'vulnerable' is a person who has the adult rights and sound mind to learn the toolbox for themselves, i will not defend/protect them, as imo, they need to learn to self-protect, just as I am doing, not rely on my energy and time.  I will though, take the time to point them to the tools and be a loving shoulder to cry upon. 

My PD people dont seem to be kept in line by any of my past blowback, so at this point, Im all about protective boundaries for myself, MC and noJADE.  I dont currently care what anyone else attempts, or what they experience when they run into my boundaries.  They surely voice their negative opinion on my boundaries, but its just noise i can eventually quiet down (or shorten its span) with the toolbox/boundaries. 

SoT