A year out

[GentleSoul]

As I approach a year since covert narc alcoholic husband died, I was reflecting on my life now.

The words that spring to mind are straight forward and peaceful.   Shame free. 

I am still working my way through c-ptsd but it is so very much better.  I am consciously adjusting how I see the world and correcting my perception all the time.  Taking out his voice undermining or covertly criticising me.

I am good at doing things, I see that his criticism was something he needed to do as part of his PD.  He needed to control.   Coercively control. That was what it was all about.   I see that whatever I had done, it would never have been good enough as he NEEDED to be able to covertly undermine and devalue me. 

He was afraid of the real me, the strong, assertive, joyous, woman he first met.  Empowered, sensual, quietly spoken and took no nonsense from anyone!  The me he wanted yet had to destroy.

I am on my way back to being that person.  I was dealing with something yesterday on the phone and to my pleasure, I heard "me" in my voice.  The real me showed up. 

I am still dealing with some physical stress issues.  Namely tummy troubles.  The other stress damage has repaired. 

I had a persona I used for many years to help protect me, I did not like that persona.  It wasn't me at all but it worked and it was needed.  It was like a "Mrs Cheery" persona!  Always bright and breezy.  A rather high pitched, slightly too loud voice.   Living in Medium Chill, Grey Rock, boundary enforcing all the time.  (Gosh, doesn't that sound like hard work?  It was).

I am glad she has gone!  I noticed other people sometimes seem surprised that I no longer act in that way.  I don't care.  It was armour. 

Another thing I notice I no longer do when I see people is that I always used to ask "how are you", then wonder why I had people dumping their endless moaning on me!!  LOL.  Well it was because I invited them too.  Now when I see people I say hello and speak of some other subject.  Say a news topic or the weather.

I am so done with listening to moaning!  When I was with late H, I found it completely normal to do so.

It isn't.  Other people don't do it!   

Another huge improvement is living in a clutter free, non-stinking home.  His hoarding issue sucked the absolute life out of me.  I was able to minimise it but it was still huge.  Ironically he hated it as much as I did but his mental illness compelled  him to do it.  We then both suffered.

Him as a person, I can hardly bring to mind what he looked like.  All I can "see" is his exhausting traits which were so destructive (to us both).  I see a very weak, very frightened and very sick person.  Again which is sad for him but what cost to be around someone  like that. 

I have learnt a lot about personality disorders and alcoholism now he is gone, this has helped me enormously.  Has brought great relief to me.

I can also see it was very embarrassing to be with an alcoholic.  The behaviours were gross and humiliating to me.   Good to say that as it is the truth.  My father was an embarrassing alcoholic too.  I spent a lot of my childhood cringing with embarrassment at him acting the clown in public.   

I have been doing lots of personal growth work.  I am confident I will never be attracted to an alcoholic and/or a PD person again. 

In fact I have been very slowly dating a very nice man.  Over the last few months, we have been going out together for the day each Sunday.  It has been a delight.  He has no alcoholism or personality disorders in him or his family generations.  A calm, caring, warm man.  Happy to take things as slow as I want.  He communicates well, always checks with what I want.  Takes my needs and likes into account.

So we go out once a week, couple phone chats in the week, texts during the day.  He has his own full and balanced life he is running.  He is gently including me in it.    I have met his family and friends (no red flags in them).   

This is enough for me as I recover from late H.  He is fine with that, no rush.

No love bombing or any of the insane narc tricks. I feel no limerence or Trauma Bonding.  It feels warm and gentle. 

I am pleasantly surprised about this.  I had thought I could not face being involved with anyone again.

[feralcat]

So glad to hear your update !
There are  a lot of well thought out recognitions in there

I just wanted to jump in to say that I also am trying ...hard ...to not start off the conversation by saying "How are you?", which is almost a default intro. Caring, friendly etc. And a figure of speech. Really hard not to say it, but it's a land mine , especially re some people. They really want to offload, as you say. Until I want to run away.

Hard to think of other opening gambits though ! So I end up standing there, looking hesitant , as I scroll mentally through what to say. Biting my tongue. 

[GentleSoul]

So glad to hear your update !
There are  a lot of well thought out recognitions in there

I just wanted to jump in to say that I also am trying ...hard ...to not start off the conversation by saying "How are you?", which is almost a default intro. Caring, friendly etc. And a figure of speech. Really hard not to say it, but it's a land mine , especially re some people. They really want to offload, as you say. Until I want to run away.

Hard to think of other opening gambits though ! So I end up standing there, looking hesitant , as I scroll mentally through what to say. Biting my tongue. 

LOL!!! It is an absolute land mine!! 

Oh goodness, the number of times I stood listening to peoples long list of ailments!  Groan!! Nooooo!  The  life being sucked out of me!

When I first stopped asking, it felt as if I was being rude not to ask but I got used to it.   I think we get marked as a willing listener!!  Written on our foreheads!!    I have removed that sign now.   

I think for me it was part of my ingrained programming coming from a PD home.

Thank you for your kind compliment in your post, I am pleased how I am recovering.  I am putting in a huge amount of work and it is paying off.  I think there is plenty still to go but that is fine.   I was incredibly damaged mentally and physically during the time I was with my late husband.  I had no concept how bad it was until some months after he passed.

[blacksheep7]

I enjoyed reading your update.  So empowering and hopeful for anyone living with a pd and/or substance abuse.

I was not aware of your life, had not read your posts about your pd alcoholic husband.   I just attracted similar  partners in my lifetime thinking that I could change them.    It all comes down to  believing and changing ourselves first.

The way your husband made you feel related with how my Covert NM made me feel and just like you I am and feel soooo free without her in my life, nc.  Being undermined is sooo insidious, especially from a parent, having also been through trauma in my childhood with Raging NF.  NM vindictive revenge  gave me the go ahead for nc.   Yes, SHAME FREE. Five yrs in spring.

I am very happy that you are dating a nice man with a good pedigree!  You deserve it!

Best wishes to you

[GentleSoul]

I enjoyed reading your update.  So empowering and hopeful for anyone living with a pd and/or substance abuse.

I was not aware of your life, had not read your posts about your pd alcoholic husband.   I just attracted similar  partners in my lifetime thinking that I could change them.    It all comes down to  believing and changing ourselves first.

The way your husband made you feel related with how my Covert NM made me feel and just like you I am and feel soooo free without her in my life, nc.  Being undermined is sooo insidious, especially from a parent, having also been through trauma in my childhood with Raging NF.  NM vindictive revenge  gave me the go ahead for nc.   Yes, SHAME FREE. Five yrs in spring.

I am very happy that you are dating a nice man with a good pedigree!  You deserve it!

Best wishes to you

Thank you, I am really pleased you enjoyed reading it. 

Congratulations on upcoming five years NC.

I was mostly NC with my "parents" too.   Most unpleasant narc/alcoholic people.  Thank you for mentioning that your mum was vindictive.  Mine was too, very spiteful when I didn't do want she wanted.  Tried to destroy me.   

There some contact now and then, a buried memory popped up recently about a desperate phone call from narc mum that my sister had cancer and was going to die so I absolutely needed to rush to my mums place.  Of course turns out there was no cancer!   These "people" are unreal. 

Moving on from that! 

It does strike me that is quite common for PD people to also be addicts of some sort.  Especially the narcs.  My late covert narc H used alcohol to sooth himself.  It worked, without it his behaviour would have been far worse, also he would have been far unhappier.  Sadly though the alcohol destroyed his body.   

If anyone ever happens to read the Alcoholics Anonymous Big Book it is basically about narcissism.   The drinking of alcohol is just a tiny part.  It is all about the self centred behaviour traits and how to learn to change within themselves.  Their outlook and attitude to people, places and things. 

I found it a fascinating read.  Lovely old fashioned language too.

Of course this only works if they are willing to accept they are like it and put in the work to change.   A HUGE amount of work.

I can see why I was attracted to late H.  His behaviour traits and his drinking matched my family of origin exactly. 

Thankfully I have healed and changed that now.   I changed myself within so my outward world changed too.

Best wishes to you, Black Sheep

[blacksheep7]

I enjoyed reading your update.  So empowering and hopeful for anyone living with a pd and/or substance abuse.

I was not aware of your life, had not read your posts about your pd alcoholic husband.   I just attracted similar  partners in my lifetime thinking that I could change them.    It all comes down to  believing and changing ourselves first.

The way your husband made you feel related with how my Covert NM made me feel and just like you I am and feel soooo free without her in my life, nc.  Being undermined is sooo insidious, especially from a parent, having also been through trauma in my childhood with Raging NF.  NM vindictive revenge  gave me the go ahead for nc.   Yes, SHAME FREE. Five yrs in spring.

I am very happy that you are dating a nice man with a good pedigree!  You deserve it!

Best wishes to you

Thank you, I am really pleased you enjoyed reading it. 

Congratulations on upcoming five years NC.

I was mostly NC with my "parents" too.   Most unpleasant narc/alcoholic people.  Thank you for mentioning that your mum was vindictive.  Mine was too, very spiteful when I didn't do want she wanted.  Tried to destroy me.   

There some contact now and then, a buried memory popped up recently about a desperate phone call from narc mum that my sister had cancer and was going to die so I absolutely needed to rush to my mums place.  Of course turns out there was no cancer!   These "people" are unreal. 

Moving on from that! 

It does strike me that is quite common for PD people to also be addicts of some sort.  Especially the narcs.  My late covert narc H used alcohol to sooth himself.  It worked, without it his behaviour would have been far worse, also he would have been far unhappier.  Sadly though the alcohol destroyed his body.   

If anyone ever happens to read the Alcoholics Anonymous Big Book it is basically about narcissism.   The drinking of alcohol is just a tiny part.  It is all about the self centred behaviour traits and how to learn to change within themselves.  Their outlook and attitude to people, places and things.

I found it a fascinating read.  Lovely old fashioned language too.

Of course this only works if they are willing to accept they are like it and put in the work to change.   A HUGE amount of work.

I can see why I was attracted to late H.  His behaviour traits and his drinking matched my family of origin exactly. 

Thankfully I have healed and changed that now.   I changed myself within so my outward world changed too.

Best wishes to you, Black Sheep

Thank you

Just a last note.

I am aware of the Big Book of AA.  Have attended many meetings with my exs.  They did not succeed to to stop drinking, some after several tries.  I have learned that using is only 20% of the problem.  The 80% is the most difficult, changing your lifestyle and friends (drinking buddies), has you mentionned.  Unfortunately many fail.  Perseverance is key.

https://psychcentral.com/blog/narcissism-decoded/2017/07/11-ways-narcissists-and-alcoholics-are-similar?li_source=LI&li_medium=popular17#1

[GentleSoul]

Thank you

Just a last note.

I am aware of the Big Book of AA.  Have attended many meetings with my exs.  They did not succeed to to stop drinking, some after several tries.  I have learned that using is only 20% of the problem.  The 80% is the most difficult, changing your lifestyle and friends (drinking buddies), has you mentionned.  Unfortunately many fail.  Perseverance is key.

https://psychcentral.com/blog/narcissism-decoded/2017/07/11-ways-narcissists-and-alcoholics-are-similar?li_source=LI&li_medium=popular17#1

Thank you very much for the link, I am going to grab myself a coffee and have a good read.

I am smiling, thanks for mentioning you have been to AA meetings.  I am a member of Al-anon, as I expect you know the sister program to AA.  For friends and family of alkies.     

I joined about 12 years ago.  I work the steps and I have a sponsor that I am in daily contact with.  I later also added in the Adult Children of Alkies program.    That was an absolute eye opener for me.  It explained why I did what I did, why I saw the world they way I did.

As you say, with AA, it is a complete overhaul of life.  To succeed at quitting alcohol, they have to change friends, where they go, everything!  As well as learning a new way of relating to the world and people in it.

[blacksheep7]

Thank you

Just a last note.

I am aware of the Big Book of AA.  Have attended many meetings with my exs.  They did not succeed to to stop drinking, some after several tries.  I have learned that using is only 20% of the problem.  The 80% is the most difficult, changing your lifestyle and friends (drinking buddies), has you mentionned.  Unfortunately many fail.  Perseverance is key.

https://psychcentral.com/blog/narcissism-decoded/2017/07/11-ways-narcissists-and-alcoholics-are-similar?li_source=LI&li_medium=popular17#1

Thank you very much for the link, I am going to grab myself a coffee and have a good read.

I am smiling, thanks for mentioning you have been to AA meetings.  I am a member of Al-anon, as I expect you know the sister program to AA.  For friends and family of alkies.     

I joined about 12 years ago.  I work the steps and I have a sponsor that I am in daily contact with.  I later also added in the Adult Children of Alkies program.    That was an absolute eye opener for me.  It explained why I did what I did, why I saw the world they way I did.

As you say, with AA, it is a complete overhaul of life.  To succeed at quitting alcohol, they have to change friends, where they go, everything!  As well as learning a new way of relating to the world and people in it.

I am glad you appreciate the link, I wasn't sure not knowing you that maybe you have put the AA  behind you.

Yes, I am aware of Al-anon, the concept of the 12 steps. For me I entered into these groups  in my early forties, twenty yrs ago.  I did the co-dep group afterwards and got very involved for several years.   After that I did other meetings on Anxiety, not a worldwide group, more local.

I applaud you for being involved Gentle Soul.  It is a plus for you and others in your life.
It keeps us grounded.  Very good therapy.

[GentleSoul]

I am glad you appreciate the link, I wasn't sure not knowing you that maybe you have put the AA  behind you.

Yes, I am aware of Al-anon, the concept of the 12 steps. For me I entered into these groups  in my early forties, twenty yrs ago.  I did the co-dep group afterwards and got very involved for several years.   After that I did other meetings on Anxiety, not a worldwide group, more local.

I applaud you for being involved Gentle Soul.  It is a plus for you and others in your life.
It keeps us grounded.  Very good therapy.

Thank you so much, excellent article.  I am  very in agreement with it. 

Good to hear you know of Al-anon.  Is that CODA? The co-dep group you mention? 

Thank you for your compliment, I very much enjoy being part of Al-anon.  I have worked with my sponsor for about 10 years.  We have an amazing relationship.  I have since added in lots of other recovery work and programs.  It is quite a passion of mine.  I love personal recovery work.

I help out at a group for recovering alcoholics and absolutely love it.  It has helped me enormously to learn about myself and also to navigate being with my late husband. 

In many ways I am grateful for my late husband as being with him helped me heal and correct my upbringing.

Had I left him before I had changed myself, I would have gone straight to another man of similar traits and done the whole thing  over again.  By staying I had the grace and time to work on myself.

[blacksheep7]

I am glad you appreciate the link, I wasn't sure not knowing you that maybe you have put the AA  behind you.

Yes, I am aware of Al-anon, the concept of the 12 steps. For me I entered into these groups  in my early forties, twenty yrs ago.  I did the co-dep group afterwards and got very involved for several years.   After that I did other meetings on Anxiety, not a worldwide group, more local.

I applaud you for being involved Gentle Soul.  It is a plus for you and others in your life.
It keeps us grounded.  Very good therapy.

Thank you so much, excellent article.  I am  very in agreement with it. 

Good to hear you know of Al-anon.  Is that CODA? The co-dep group you mention? 

Thank you for your compliment, I very much enjoy being part of Al-anon.  I have worked with my sponsor for about 10 years.  We have an amazing relationship.  I have since added in lots of other recovery work and programs.  It is quite a passion of mine.  I love personal recovery work.

I help out at a group for recovering alcoholics and absolutely love it.  It has helped me enormously to learn about myself and also to navigate being with my late husband. 

In many ways I am grateful for my late husband as being with him helped me heal and correct my upbringing.

Had I left him before I had changed myself, I would have gone straight to another man of similar traits and done the whole thing  over again.  By staying I had the grace and time to work on myself.

Yes, it is the CODA.  I went from one partner to the next only trying to fix my toxic relationships.  The real work came when I came Out of the FOG, the root of all my problems and patterns, especially how I felt about myself!
Finally learning not to settle and accept crumbs.  The three C., finding my self-worth.

I agree that having lived with a toxic upbringing and partners in our life has helped us heal (for those who accept the past, no denial), make it a goal to go forward.  Seeking a better life with a whole new outlook on ourselves as a survivor not a victim.

I help out at a group for recovering alcoholics and absolutely love it.  It has helped me enormously to learn about myself and also to navigate being with my late husband. 

There is nothing more rewarding helping others.

[GentleSoul]

Sorry for my slow reply.  I have only had limited internet access for a few days.

I am so glad I have worked on myself.  I see my sister still stuck in her toxic relationship pattern.  I am grateful I found the clarity to realise I needed to change myself and my outlook.

[blacksheep7]

Sorry for my slow reply.  I have only had limited internet access for a few days.

I am so glad I have worked on myself.  I see my sister still stuck in her toxic relationship pattern.  I am grateful I found the clarity to realise I needed to change myself and my outlook.

No need to be sorry that you did not reply right away!  This is  what  our pd parents, family want, not me or the ootfers.  I did not expect an answer.

I am also the only one of four siblings who did the work.  Unfortunately my sibs sided with NM....much easier than to look at the truth which is frightening.   My sister always complained about covertM but when I came out with the Narcisstic traits, I intimidated her with my knowledge on the matter.  Her dd told me, the only niece who gets it.

[GentleSoul]

No need to be sorry that you did not reply right away!  This is  what  our pd parents, family want, not me or the ootfers.  I did not expect an answer.

I am also the only one of four siblings who did the work.  Unfortunately my sibs sided with NM....much easier than to look at the truth which is frightening.   My sister always complained about covertM but when I came out with the Narcisstic traits, I intimidated her with my knowledge on the matter.  Her dd told me, the only niece who gets it.

You made me smile with your comment.  You are right. 

Indeed facing the truth is too frightening to a lot of people so they feel far safer stuck in the same old patterns.

I think with my sister she just doesn't realise how off our childhood and then her behaviours are.  She thinks it is everyone else who is the problem.  As did uPD mum.  It is never them, it is the rest of the world.

Myself and sis and mum all had a series of very messed up relationships but I seem to be the only one who realised in my messed up relationships, I am the common denominator! 

Just had a lovely holiday with my "normal" partner.  All so pleasant and easy.