On a timeout, now stuck where to go from here

[RebelYelll]

Dear Wise Ones,

I've not posted in a looong while but read y'all regularly and I hope you can help me.   I've been on a timeout since January when I had my 'I'm done' moment over shenanigans around a significant family event after about 6 years of other shenanigans/harrassment etc.  I called elderly enF and told him that I needed a break, he wasn't to contact me and I'd be back in touch when I was ready.  He refused to stop contacting me so I blocked him on phone and email.  I needed to know that when the phone went or an email came through it wasn't him as I was getting a big woosh of anxiety whenever either of these things happened - or even when I thought I could hear a phone ringing.

A voicemail did get through saying he'd been trying to contact me and if I 'didn't grow up it could be time to 'have done with it''.  He has alluded to disownment before on a couple of occasions.  This voicemail sent me into a panic, as per, but I did nothing as I had no idea what to do and I really do not want to speak to him.  When I think of calling him I feel the panic rising and I can get the shakes.  That was a couple of weeks ago and nothing since, thankfully.  He doesn't know he's blocked so probably thinks I'm ignoring him.  If he did know, he'd go ballistic but he's gonna be furious at being ignored too.

It is true that there has been a degree of peace as I used to speak to him regularly.  I dreaded these calls and felt great relief afterwards that that was it for another period.  BUT I can't stop thinking about the situation, and if or how I should contact him to tell him I want to go NC (or at least only be in touch if he falls seriously ill as I've asked sib to let me know if this happens).  I feel I ought to contact him to let him know rather than just letting it drag on with no resolution.  Then if I am going to contact him how should I do it?  Phoning would be best because then I'd know how he felt and he gets the right of reply but when I think of phoning and imagine how the conversation will go I panic as I can guarantee he will be nasty.  I could email but that feels mean sending an email like that with no means of reply.  It's causing me a great deal of anxiety every time I think about it, which is a lot, like as soon as I wake up, at work etc etc.  I feel there is no resolution.

Anyone have an idea on how to deal with this?  Thank you so much.

[Cat of the Canals]

I called elderly enF and told him that I needed a break, he wasn't to contact me and I'd be back in touch when I was ready.  He refused to stop contacting me so I blocked him on phone and email. 

It sounds to me like:
1. You've already told him you want to go NC, you just weren't specific that it was "permanent." And even then, this doesn't sound truly permanent if he is allowed to call if he's ill...
2. He has shown you exactly what any type of reply will look like: nastiness and outright refusal to accept your boundaries.

I feel I ought to contact him to let him know rather than just letting it drag on with no resolution.

I think this is the crux of it for me. I doubt there will be any resolution with him. He is very unlikely to simply accept NC on your terms. So I wouldn't bother contacting him to let him know for his sake.

That being said, if you feel that it would be a relief to YOU, then that's different. Select the method that is the least stressful for you. I wouldn't take into account what he wants/prefers at all. Again, he's already shown you how he's going to respond (poorly). Why subject yourself to further abuse?

If you were dealing with a rational person with whom you were trying to maintain a relationship with, of course it would make sense to give them the option to reply. That's not what this is, though. So if it were me, I'd go with email. Don't make this harder on yourself than it already is. Keep it brief. And remember that they often use anything we write down against us.

Best of luck.

[donutmoonpanda]

I believe Cat is correct.

"I doubt there will be any resolution with him. He is very unlikely to simply accept NC on your terms. So I wouldn't bother contacting him to let him know for his sake.

That being said, if you feel that it would be a relief to YOU, then that's different. Select the method that is the least stressful for you. I wouldn't take into account what he wants/prefers at all. Again, he's already shown you how he's going to respond (poorly). Why subject yourself to further abuse?"

It's true that what you do from here needs to be for you, with your needs in mind because that's what comes first on the road to healing.

[Spring Butterfly]

Yes Karyl McBride has a book specifically outlining a healing path. I happened to find her book after I had learned much of it over years by trial and error and with the support of this forum. She outlines specific milestones so you can know where you are in healing. Once you have healed enough and IF you choose to resume some sort of contact here's what she recommends:

https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=29251.msg568720#msg568720

[Liketheducks]

You know, it is really ok if you don't talk to him.    You don't owe him an explanation.   Particularly, if you feel the message you received places all the blame on you not being "grown".     You don't owe your parents anything.    If anything, they owe you.   You didn't choose to be born.  Didn't choose them.....but you can, and have to be the one, to choose to heal yourself.    As unfair as it is, you can't make them do that for you.   And, if healing means big hairy boundaries and breaks around them......you deserve to give yourself that peace.   Sending you a hug.   You deserve to feel safe.   You are deserving of safety and love.   You are enough all on your own, to warrant that.   

Am kind of sitting in a similar space right now.   Dad was physically abusive and an addict.   Mom is, I think a covert narc....though, she went through a lot....and I'm not a doctor.      I was estranged from Dad for 25 years. Honestly, he wasn't safe.   And, anytime back then, he'd spin into a cycle of it is your mother's fault and you're just like her.      During the covid lockdowns, he had an epiphany.    He is sober and we talk....and it is only ever positive.   We don't talk about the past.   We don't engage in blame.    And, it is light.   It is encouraging.   It is supportive.   It is nothing I would've have imagined possible.  And, there are BIG boundaries around how we interact.   

My mom....is such a different story.   I grew up with her being the stable parent.   We have been VVLC for 5-6 years.   And still, when we do interact and she has a chance to get me alone for a millisecond....I'm the scum of the earth for having boundaries with her.    I'm certain what we had was a trauma bond....but I can't fix that part of her for her.    In those moments, I just tell her that we obviously have a misunderstanding....and that this is not the time to discuss it (as she's only ever around during a holiday or family event that is NOT the time to get into a needless emotional turmoil).....and that I welcome talking with her about it at a later date if she would like to reach out.   And, then.....she just never does.....and we have the same conversation a few months or years later.      Thankfully, when I approach her like that, it usually takes the wind out of her sails.    And, she either leaves OR stops the conflict....because she can't keep me alone in that space for very long - as we only really interact when it is an event where she likely feels obligated to make an appearance to show that she's the "nice one".    I would LOVE to have a different relationship with her.    And, I've communicated as such.  But, I don't have the magic wand that is going to keep me in both the world where I was in the FOG and the more peaceful space I'm in now without her also making some changes.   She's in her 70's.   That might not be a realistic expectation now.   But, I do know that it is ok for me not to fulfill that role anymore.   
You are enough on your own.   If this is too much, there are so many, many others who have walked this same road.   Usually the people who say you should be doing something differently have never experienced this type of dysfunction.      Be on a timeout.   Take as much time as you need.   Do what you need to make yourself feel peace and safety.   You are deserving of this at a bare minimum.

[foobarred]

I needed to know that when the phone went or an email came through it wasn't him as I was getting a big woosh of anxiety whenever either of these things happened - or even when I thought I could hear a phone ringing.

I blocked my mother's number for the same reason.  Every time the phone rang, I'd flinch and my heart rate would jump.  She was furious about being blocked, complained repeatedly and bitterly, but I needed to be able to sleep at night.

Phoning would be best because then I'd know how he felt and he gets the right of reply but when I think of phoning and imagine how the conversation will go I panic as I can guarantee he will be nasty.

You mean phoning would be best *for him*.  It sounds like you're considering his needs and want to show him respect by listening to his feelings and giving him a chance to reply.  Like you would for a normal, decent human being.

For you, OTOH, a phone call does *not* sound best.  You already know that he'll be nasty.  His behavior over your request for time off (ignoring your boundaries and making threats) pretty much confirms it.  So why punish yourself?  Your needs matter, too.

It's causing me a great deal of anxiety every time I think about it, which is a lot, like as soon as I wake up, at work etc etc.  I feel there is no resolution.

You'll never have resolution with a PD.  IME, they'll never give you the satisfaction.  If what you want is to be able to "draw a line" under the relationship, you'll have to draw it yourself, and let the PD do whatever the PD's gonna do.

I couldn't handle the drama of a phone call, and I've always been better at expressing myself in writing, so I sent mine a letter.  Registered, to make it more official.   Took me three drafts to edit it down to where I didn't sound like a raving lunatic, b/c I didn't want her showing it to people as "proof" of my crazy.

I put things as generically and bloodlessly as I could, almost like a resignation letter.  I said that our relationship could not continue in it's current form, that I was physically and emotionally exhausted, and that I needed a break.  I specified when the break was to begin, giving her 30 days notice to find a new whipping boy. I stated the NC was final and absolute.  In hindsight, I could've specified a three month minimum duration, and left the end of the "break" unspecified, to give myself more options.  But I'm not sure it would've made a difference in the end.

It was still an awful experience - there's no way for this to *not* be an awful experience - but I felt better for putting my position down explicitly and in writing.  It felt like I'd wrapped things up and put a little bow on it.  PDMom continued to PD, and I'm still dealing with those loose ends, but they're *her* loose ends.  Mine are done.

[Call Me Cordelia]

  "If you don't 'grow up'..." 

That's classic gaslighting projection opposite talk. Setting boundaries is a mature adult behavior. You were direct and respectful.

He's the one who's responding with a prolonged tantrum and just extending the timeout. Like a toddler. Sheesh. 

I've been in exactly the same place early in NC. I called them and said this specific thing was really hurtful and I am taking a break. I will call you when I'm ready. Cue instant denial of what they did. When I wasn't accepting the rug sweeping act they went to harassment mode as well and my CPTSD symptoms were really bad. What I meant to be only for a few weeks or months is now in place so long as I have a child under 18, and we had a new baby not long ago. So probably permanent.

[moglow]

If you don't grow up ... honestly, pot/kettle? 

I called elderly enF and told him that I needed a break, he wasn't to contact me and I'd be back in touch when I was ready. 

This seems clear to me - you're not ready. You might never be ready or you might change your mind with time, just not now. Thing is, your decision to cease contact wasn't easy or fun. It's not a game and you're not trying to prove a point to anyone [contrary to what he might think]. This isn't little-kid petulance, stomping your foot and running away - it's putting necessary distance between yourself and a miserable situation as a whole. Self preservation and peace steps in at some point and we all need to reevaluate who adds to or takes from our lives - and yes, that can and does include family members. Everyone doesn't get a pass just because they say so or feel entitled to it. I would think by now your dad has burned through a great many passes or you wouldn't be where you are.

He refused to stop contacting me so I blocked him on phone and email.  I needed to know that when the phone went or an email came through it wasn't him as I was getting a big woosh of anxiety whenever either of these things happened - or even when I thought I could hear a phone ringing.

A voicemail did get through saying he'd been trying to contact me and if I 'didn't grow up it could be time to 'have done with it''.  He has alluded to disownment before on a couple of occasions.  This voicemail sent me into a panic, as per, but I did nothing as I had no idea what to do and I really do not want to speak to him.  When I think of calling him I feel the panic rising and I can get the shakes.  That was a couple of weeks ago and nothing since, thankfully.  He doesn't know he's blocked so probably thinks I'm ignoring him.  If he did know, he'd go ballistic but he's gonna be furious at being ignored too.

Mommie dearest was fond of saying about others "s/he wouldn't be happy if they were hung with a new rope," and I had no idea until many years later that she was really talking about herself. Nothing was ever enough. She wanted a mad and by golly was going to have one come hell or high water. You think you've set one thing down, found some resolution and she's over there stirring a whole other pot you didn't even know existed.

That doomed if you do/doomed if you don't existence is painful. I understand that no one gets a free ride and I don't expect one, but it does seem that we should all actually get something good out of our relationships. If not, whatever are they for and why are we there??

Understand this, we're all responsible and accountable for our own behavior and treatment of others, and not just you because you're the "child." He isn't owed different because he's the father - you're still both adults. As a therapist put it to me years ago, if this were a friend treating and talking to you this way, what would you do? [Clearly, I wouldn't consider them a friend and would be on my way.] Then why does she/the mother (in my case) get a pass? Why is she allowed if not encouraged to run roughshod over you whenever she chooses? [Because she's my mother and that's what she does, who she is.] Again, why? I had no answers. I did what I did because it's what was expected and demanded of me by others.

I'd be willing to bet that any explanation you offered, no matter how well meant or carefully worded, would be ripped apart if that's not what your father wants to hear. You're not towing the company line, is the problem - you're daring to step outside your assigned role because you CAN and it's probably overdue. You're an adult who has free will and gets to decide how you live your own life. Do that!

[bee well]

Hi RebelYell,

My thoughts align what I have seen in the replies.

In addition to what led up to the current situation, your most recent boundary was ignored (reinforces why you need/want boundaries) and you were gaslit (projecting his immaturity on to you). To add to that he is using emotional blackmail you (with talk of disownment.)

And that whoosh of anxiety? Continued exposure to that adrenaline is not healthy. As many of us know from experience, it takes its toll on the brain and the body as well.

I think it is good idea to block communication as needed, based on the behaviour you observe.

Maybe later you will be able to see and hear his messages/calls and just let him be without feeling as much anxiety. In any case the fact that you are having this anxiety is a sign that there are not sufficient boundaries in place to protect you.

You need space. Your Father is disrespecting that and you appear to be concerned about not appearing "mean" (that's honorable on your part, but at a certain point that kind of thinking veers into toxic empathy.)

You have the right to  decide whether or not you will have your Father in your mental and/or physical space, and also the modality of communication.

I see nothing wrong with email only, if you decide that NC is not the best choice for you at this time. With email there is the added benefit that you can choose when to check and you can see all of the communication. (It's easier for conversations to go off the rails. And we can't go back and look at conversations.)

If he insists on phone calls I would not explain why you are emailing only, if perhaps not just to say "email works for me at this time" and then resisting any attempts on his part to engage you.

I have some family members with whom I have had email only contact for years. I have had guilt for this at times but then I remind myself of all the ways in which those family members have shown me that they are not interested in having a relationship with any healthy substance. (There's lots of  f'ed  dysfunction and tragedy I won't mention here.) I have come to the conclusion that for now this works for me and I reserve the right to act otherwise, should I change my mind in the future.

I don't know all of the dynamics in your family but I  would say it comes down to feeling the discomfort of doing what's best for you. Only you can decide what your tolerance level is, and how much space you need to "breathe" comfortably. But remember, claiming that space is not an act of selfishness, it's a right.

[RebelYelll]

Thanks everyone who took the time to repy.

What you all said made a lot of sense and laid out the facts and mechanisms of what is going on, which even when you kind of know already in your heart of hearts, it helps and is validating to hear it rephrased from different people.  That's why forums like these are invaluable.

I am no longer wracked with guilt and am content that I need not contact him at all because, naturally given his behavior, I don't want to.  If I did get in contact I'd get more of the same and to what end?  Even when I did call he was not interested in what I'd been doing.  I haven't been getting much (anything?) from the relationship for some years now, it was just duty.  As Moglow said, if he was not my father I would have given him the boot years ago, just like I did with his uNPDW when she showed her true colours.  I need to detach and leave them to their own, likely miserable, life.   (I don't think he's a true PD BTW, he has just been subsumed by a very powerful one.)

Liketheducks: your story with your father is amazing - we don't get many like that round here!  I'm sorry to hear your difficulties with your mother persist.

foobarred: well done on writing The Letter, I'm glad it worked for you.

CMC: thank you for sharing your similar story.  It sounds like you have made a necessary choice to keep NC.

Thanks also Cat, Panda, Bee and Butterfly for your thoughts and book suggestion.

I feel better.