OCPD stopping randomly without notice

[Prototypian]

This is for the OCPD or uOCPD relationships out there.  My uOCPD spouse has a habit when we are in a group of stopping and disappearing.   I'm at a big sporting event for high school students with two days and many schools and athletes represented.   There are often times where there is a line to get in or walk to seats or walk over to the podium area for photos of awards.   My spouse has always done this but the following is an example: we have decided to run out because we have an hour break before the next event and we go to get food.  It's a huge stadium and we get up and head toward the exit.  People are coming in, people are leaving, people are cheering for other events and we have to get to the gates, get to our car and then get back.  I'm walking, get close to a break in the throngs of people and I turn and my spouse is gone.   Not there at all.  No warning, no "hey hold on", nothing.   So I wait and wait, I call, text, hope.   Then she walks up 30 minutes later and says "I saw (make up name and title) and wanted to talk to her.".  I've asked before, "hey, I'm totally cool if you want to stop and talk to someone but can you let me know"

She always says "I needed to talk to her and it was important"

My question for other OCPD relationship people is: do you see this one?   It is never a penalty she is trying to show.  She is not trying to show me "you were walking too fast" or "you didn't value me".  To her, she saw someone usually related to political stuff that it was important to stop and have a long detailed policy discussion about and the rest of the world didn't matter.   The timeframe, other people, the kids; none of it mattered at all because that discussion was important.  It doesn't matter that someone else was expecting a different behavior or that it would have been nice to communicate a change of plans.  The opportunity to have that discussion should be something completely natural and understood by everyone and why would anyone be upset.

I've tried the following which is "run to the restaurant without her" and the result is an explosion you can't even imagine.   Ceding that kind of control as in someone else goes to a fast food place and brings back lunch without her review is completely out of the picture.   

I'm asking because this is a constant thing.   She stops with no warning all the time and leaves the family wandering off at festivals, parks, schools, events or activities.

I think part of it is that she knows if for example, "a kid wants to leave the school open house to do homework and she stops to talk to the administrator, the kid will stand reminding her that they have homework" and she doesn't like to deal with that dichotomy of having two competing really important things so it's better to just stop without telling anyone.   

This is a weird one but it's so prevalent in my spouse I thought I would ask.  Posting another common behavior in a second.

[BeautifulCrazy]

My OCPD used to do this too.
My interpretation is that it is all down to control.
You are left in a "damned if you do/ damned if you don't" situation where OCPD spouse gets to choose how angry to be afterward. I don't buy for a moment (knowing myOCPD's attention to and awareness of every excruciating detail) that they were not aware of the situation they were leaving the rest of the family in. I think they made a decision and then justified it using their personal "relative importance scale" which they have conditioned the family to accept. If family seems less than accepting, OCPD rage will fix that. If they accept, then OCPD is reinforced in being "right", and the years of conditioning are proving successful.
I think this is a conscious choice for OCPD in the moment and you are right Jsinjin, it shows that, to OCPD, you don't matter. Failing to even demonstrate basic manners that they would use with anyone else proves that beyond doubt.
I suspect this is a PD 'controlling' behavior common across other PD types as well. I saw it in my ASPD, NPD first husband.

[square]

Interesting.

jsinjin, you've mentioned that your wife holds herself to her own rules as rigidly as anyone else. But are there are some specific areas she does not do so?

She is okay ghosting her family and leaving you to wait, but how would she react if you suddenly wandered off while on the way in to an event?

She feels it is a major offense if you say "excuse me, I need the sink for a sec" if she is in front of it. If she needed the sink, does she apply the rule to herself and wait patiently for ten, twenty minutes without a word or the slightest body language or facial expression, if you were parked comfortably leaning against the sink while chatting with a family member?

[BeautifulCrazy]

Square, I think I see what you are asking about!     This was a big deal for me! For most of my relationship, I thought my OCPDh was applying the rules equally to everyone. Once I was far enough Out of the FOG to observe my OCPDh with a bit more objectivity, I found the exceptions he made for himself and the behavior differences he exhibited around people in less intimate relationships, proved that he was making a choice in the moment about the rules.

Sorry Jsinjin, I don't believe as you do (anymore) that it is a "hard wired belief system" or "something that can't be helped". I do see, now, how it might appear that way after many years of being enabled by everyone surrounding.

I found the fallout of OCPDh's decisions was also revealing. (I will use your example Jsinjin, since it is also something i experienced)
If OCPDh decided that A(the conversation with whoever) was that much more important than B(going for food with the family) that he could completely disregard B and not even bother to briefly interrupt A to communicate about it, then anything at all to do with B must also be unimportant to that same degree, or he would have communicated about it.
But that is not how it works out. Ever. Is it?
If they are not willing to invest in action B in the moment, but are suddenly invested to an all encompassing degree afterward, in my opinion, that shows a choice. It also demonstrates a degree of flexibility (in priorities/ rules) that they are not able to apply to others. Only themselves.
My reasoning may be flawed here. But something there definitely does not seem right. Perhaps I am making the error of trying to place nonPD conventions on a pwPD.

Another thing I noticed once Out of the FOG was that OCPDh would interrupt family activities to go check texts or e-mails, and also to answer texts or e-mails. He would sometimes make a phone call to someone regarding a plan change or to confirm he had rescheduled something and then return to the family activity.

So he WAS ABLE TO interrupt a chosen activity to communicate with someone else about a plan! That meant he just CHOSE NOT TO extend that courtesy to me or to other family. 
Additionally, he expected us to accept this treatment without complaint. But he would not have just let things go, if any of us had done the same.

That hurt to realize. Really hurt.

Once I saw it, I could not ignore it. It was a big contributor to my realization that we were not being treated with courtesy or respect and it was INTENTIONAL. It contributed greatly to my decision to leave. None of our children deserved that. I would not want any of them putting up with that nonsense from future friends or romantic partners.

[square]

Those are some really interesting points.

I find this kind of analysis interesting, though I understand the position that what is happening inside an abuser ultimately doesn't matter - it's abuse anyway.

But all the same, I do have an interest in these questions.

My previous post about whether jsinjin's wife applies the rules entirely to herself was an honest question, wasn't leading anywhere. Lots of really good points in this discussion.

I read jsinjin's statement about his wife not being able to control her perception of how the world works not as an excuse for her behavior but as part of letting go of hope for change, but I could be wrong.

[Prototypian]

Hi Team!

And I say team because I like this insightful and non judgemental conversation.   I am very likely making excuses for her because I'm nice and that's what a "nice husband" does in my fear of confrontation and attempt to make the best of things.   You are absolutely right that she would never interrupt one of her activities for a family need whether that's an emergency or just a simple request for time.   Neither I nor the kids are ever important.   And I've see the kids crying wanting to go home to work on homework and the PTA mom asking questions at the event is more important. 

As to leaving her if she stops, and doesn't tell us, 1) I just can't see myself doing that and 2) like I've given hints of, she holds very deep control.   She doesn't let me drive to any functions where there might be a choice of parking, she never lets me make hotel reservations, she is internally careful to never be out of control and this extends to anything.   Her most anxiety ridden times are place like concerts or Disney world where the goal is just to choose fun without rules.   

I guess she applied the rules of codes or laws to herself and is very determined to do that.   

But the rules of volunteering, stopping randomly, deciding what parking spot or ensuring she is in the way in the kitchen only apply to her and the reverse of things isn't true.   She can prevent things form being thrown away but can't allow someone the freedom to choose their own stuff to throw away.

All correct.   And I do feel a sense of PTSD and abuse because when she is gone the weight is gone.

[Poison Ivy]

"I just can't see myself doing that."

What stops you?

[Prototypian]

Because of the FOG plus reeling me back in with nice behaviors, continued material and kid success and my own fear of messing things up.  I'm just seen as the super nice guy.   Everywhere.   It's a hard image and persona to break

[BeautifulCrazy]

I didn't think to ask myself those kind of clarifying questions, like Square's, or Poison Ivy's, when I was caught up in the abuse. Except at therapy, I didn't encounter that kind of plain speaking or truth probing until I began reading on this forum. (That compassionate outside perspective is something I have come to value highly here!)
And if I did, tentatively, question things in my own way, I was convinced enough by my PDh, and my own projected ideas about him, to not see the truth.
I believed for a long time that my PDh was equitable in his application of the rules.
Because he told me he was.
And because that was what I projected onto his behaviors, based on my own internal values. (Being also a "nice person")
Through my therapists questions, I discovered my PDh was only applying his rigid standards to his own actions selectively, and obscuring that fact with other PD behaviors.

On some gut level, throughout most the relationship, I felt that I should not probe too deeply, because I didn't want to know.
And I didn't, really, want to know.
Until I was ready.

I did leave have to leave and come back before I was ready.

Even when I was aware that I was being treated unfairly, and knew that a role reversed situation would go very differently, I still had excuses.
That was when I used "that's how he's wired", and "he can't help being that way", as ways to describe the situation to myself. It was easier.

For me, realizing the abuse was actually a choice that OCPDh made in the moment, and was fully able to control if he chose to, was pivotal.
It helped me have resolve to make my own choices about what I was willing to go along with and what I was not, and, ultimately, to leave for good.

We all have different degrees and different types of discomfort that we are willing to bear. And different reasons for doing so.

[Cat of the Canals]

Additionally, he expected us to accept this treatment without complaint. But he would not have just let things go, if any of us had done the same.

This is the part that stands out to me. In reading your posts, Jsinjin, I get a strong sense that in your wife's mind, her beliefs/wants/needs ALWAYS come before anyone else's. Which is a pretty narcissistic point-of-view. That doesn't necessarily make her a narcissist, but I do think a lot of non-NPD personality disorders have a sort of latent narcissism component. She may not be cruel but she certainly seems uncaring about the effect her behavior has on her family. And like square said, I don't know that it matters if their intent is to make you feel bad/small/unimportant/etc. or not when the result is the same.

[SeaBreeze]

My uNPDm often wandered off in the store in her later years, forcing the kids and I to spend half the shopping trip trying to find her well after we were done with our own shopping. She really was off in her own self-absorbed world. But...I caught her a few times when she didn't know I'd seen her yet, and some times she truly seemed oblivious to her surroundings. But other times, my mom deliberately was leading us on a chase, (for instance ignoring my texts when I could hear her phone chime from one aisle over!) My oldest DS (then a teen) often told his wandering grandmother we needed to put a tracker in her neck. 😆

As for uNPDh (and possibly OCPD), our first few years together... He used to disappear at any social events, sometimes even leaving without telling me, only to randomly reappear or call me to mope/pout/glare/ST, or argue/make a scene in public because I was "ignoring him", "flirting with other men", "didn't tell him where I'd be", "looked like I was having more fun without him", "my friends didn't seem to like him", etc etc. Basically sabotaging the outing while keeping my attention on either looking for him, or appeasing him. In our later years as we do more boring stuff like shop, he likes to either walk waaay ahead or waaay behind me. So I've admittedly followed my mother's example (and his) and now I am the one who will just sprint off and disappear. 😈 (This would not have worked when we were younger and H was angrier, but I can get away with it now.)

I really think the disappearing acts with PDs are a combo of control, punishment, and plain old obliviousness.

[JustKeepTrying]

jsinjin,

Thank you for the post.  It is these type of posts that clarify for me that 1) I was right to leave and 2) I am not crazy.

My xOCPDh would do this ALL THE TIME.  At sporting events, parties, neighborhood gatherings and even family shopping trips.  When I questioned it, there would be an explanation that would lift his profile - he was doing something for us or insert big thing here - and we were lucky he did that.  There was always a great reason and we just had to stuff it.  If I pulled it, and I did legitimately a few times like after school conferences when the principal pulled me aside, I was a given a two week silent treatment whenever we were alone.

I think it's about control and ego.  And if you react, then it's bonus points.

I am grateful when these types of things are posted because it shows me how deep I was in the fog.  How I excused the behavior all those decades.  But mostly, how far I've come.