Co-regulation - one of the concepts we might need to explore as we get Out of the FOG

[treesgrowslowly]

Sometimes there is a concept that helps us to understand what it is we face, and what it is we needed, and why being in close contact with a PD, feels so painful.

One concept that might help us is this concept of co-regulation.

These 2 articles are 2 of many online that explain why co-regulation was so important when we were children, and it is quite easy to see that if a parent had a PD, then they probably didn't co-regulate with us when they were "parenting" us.

In order to calm and soothe their own children, the parents have to be regulated, and so I think many of us dealt with parents who were dysregulated, and that parent just made things worse for us when we were upset and needed someone to help us with our emotions. As the adult child of PDs, I have many many memories of no one being there during times when co-regulation was needed. I also have memories that the parents resented having to attend to their kid's emotional needs. That resentment, is felt by the child. I really believe that. Even a baby can feel that their parent resents having to take care of them. We need to validate ourselves and know that the need for co-regulation, is a real human need.

For me, this helps to explain why passive aggressive behaviours (which PDs tend to be very good at) can be so dysregulating for me.

The most subtle the passive aggression is, the more derailed I feel inside. Has anyone else found that as well?

This is because the subtlety of the act, makes you question whether it actually happened (gaslighting). In a FOO where the PD is being enabled by FM's and others (so the passive aggression is being defended), it can feel impossible to explain how we are affected emotionally, when a PD has done something passive aggressive.

Sometimes I felt like I was being pulled into their negativity vortex, despite trying so hard to stay out of it! Like being near the eye of a storm and trying to stand tall and not let wind pull me down! Other times, I would try to regulate other people in the FOO, and fail miserably because they were committed to staying pretty angry and entitled. I am sure I am not alone in having had those awful experiences.

As part of healing, we learn how boundaries keep us safer from such storms from others. I hope this info helps others who are also learning how to keep practicing those really important boundaries! Please share if you have found other helpful articles / videos about co-regulation!

https://www.complextrauma.org/glossary/co-regulation/

https://drarielleschwartz.com/connection-co-regulation-psychotherapy-dr-arielle-schwartz/#.Ym_4c_PMK3I

Trees

[NarcKiddo]

That is really interesting. Thank you. I will likely do some further research on that.

I wonder if a recent experience of mine would be co-regulation? I was with a friend and I told her my uNPDm's latest horrid behaviour. I was relating it in a very matter-of-fact way and hiding behind humour, as is my habit. She was visibly emotionally hurt on my behalf by the story. It was a fleeting moment and neither of us wanted to pursue the discussion as we were out at dinner with others in a restaurant. But I have been quite profoundly affected by her visceral reaction to my story because to me it validated my hurt at uNPDm's behaviour. It made me feel that my emotional reaction to it (unexpressed to anyone) is not actually unreasonable.

[JustKeepTrying]

A couple of  thoughts, as a mom and now Out of the FOG from a 32 year marriage to my xOCPDh - and the sister to a NPD - it is difficult to co-regulate.  To even recognize the need to help your child when you are keeping your spouse from whatever it is you are afraid they will do.  And you are right, that subtle passive aggressive comment stings and follows you around and is so very hard to shake - it always sounds so reasonable. 

Also, when going through ABA with my autistic son, co-regulatiion was something I systematically taught him.  And he is the most mature of my children right now.  My older DDs often slide those passive aggressive comments into conversation.  And it hurts because I know that I tried my best but I just didn't get it at the time.  So much trauma to myself and to my children.

Fascinating topic.

[treesgrowslowly]

NarcKiddo - Yes! I think that was an example of co-regulation between the two of you because you felt what she was expressing / emoting and it affected your thoughts and emotions. It sounds like that validated your own feeling too.

Justkeeptrying thanks for sharing that. I didn't understand any of this stuff for years and didn't know why things would happen over and over with people.

Trees

[Call Me Cordelia]

Is this another way of saying we learn to manage our emotions from other people? As children or as adults? I'm not quite clear on the concept. If I understand you correctly we would co-regulate when we are insecure and look to see how other people are responding. For example someone tells a off-color joke and we are not sure how to take it, then we laugh and accept it as funny when we see others are laughing. Or is that something different?

[pianissimo]

I have heard of this concept as reflecting. The therapist I heard talking about this used it for both positive and negative emotions. For example, when the child is happy because she/he is playing with a toy, the parent says "Look, how happy you are with that toy", and the child knows what he/she is feeling is happiness, or when the child is upset because he/she is sleepy, the parent might say "Of course you are upset, you are sleepy", and the child knows he/he is sleepy and upset. The list goes on. Either ways, the child gets to know his/her feelings by having her emotions reflected back, and, apparently, this helps the kid regulate him/herself. They say, a potential traumatic incident could be processed healthily by a child if there is a caregiver who reflects the child's emotions back at him/her in that situation. From how it is described, reflecting sounds like something that is done by a caregiver who is self-regulated themselves. As I understand, if something scares the parent, the parent would not be able to reflect the kid's emotion back at him/her in that moment. But, I guess, the parent can reflect the kid's emotion in that moment  when they are safe again, like "X was happening, and it scared mummy/daddy, and that scared you. but it's over now. We are all safe now". This kind of talk, again, helps the kid regulate him/herself.

I hear toddlers are a handful, tend to throw tantrums. I guess, in this case, the parent reflects on the kid calmly by saying things like "You are angry now, but what you want is not possible",  so the kid knows she/he is angry. I guess the kid is taught to self-regulate in these instances through parenting, but the therapist who talked about this said tantrums are tricky.

In relation to this, I have childhood memories of other adults reflecting my emotions back at me. There was this time, me and my mother were alone at home. I was young, 11? Perhaps younger. I heard my mother's scream from the kitchen, and what a scream that was. When I went to the kitchen, she was sitting on the floor, in pain. I guess I understood something had dropped and hurt her toe. I think that I also understood whatever happened was not supposed to be that painful, but she was howling so loud that I thought perhaps there was something else going on. So, even now, I infer that she must have been quite loud, because, while I was in some kind of shock, neighbors came upon hearing her voice from the outside. They checked on her and made sure she was OK. And, then, on the way out, one of them saw me and said "Give the kid a cup of sweetened water, she looks scared." I remember the incident for this memory. I was shocked, but I was also feeling bad that I was angry with my mother for scaring me by screaming like that, and I wasn't sure if I was being a heartless person for thinking this way. The fear was beneath all these mixture of emotions, and when the neighbor reflected my fear back to me, I felt relieved. I think I felt validated, "Yes, it's scary". I think if the neighbour hadn't said this, I would be angry with my mother because of the fear, and my mother would deal with the anger by saying "Well, I was hurt", and the fear would have gone unacknowledged, even by me. I wouldn't know I was angry because I was scared. And, the moment I was told I was scared, I didn't feel so angry. (But, then, I grew up angry with my mother for situations like these (there are others I don't want to write about), and, there was this time, my anger was reflected back to me by this lady who was helping my mother with the housework, and I calmed down immediately (self-regulation?), because, until that point,  I hadn't realized I was angry. I would argue with my mother over silly things, and it would offend her, then I would feel bad. It was a mess. And, then, this lady asked me "Why are you so angry pianissimo?". I needed somebody to tell me I was angry.)

I think that passive aggressive behaviours are the opposite of reflecting in the sense above. They sneak a negative feeling into the receiver, and the receiver is usually unprepared for that feeling because of the way it comes in. So, by design, you are likely to not immediately know how a passive aggressive behaviour makes you feel.  For example, a passive aggressive threat would upset you, but it might take time for you to figure out it upset you because it scared you, because it was communicated in an unexpected (usually a positive) way. Then, if you react to the comment, the aggressor deliberately deals with your reaction, instead of how they made you feel. I think that passive aggressive behaviours layer the emotions in the receiver. They make you feel in a certain way (scared, shamed, hurt)  but you react to them angrily. And the aggressor deals with your anger, not with how you feel. Thanks for pointing this out actually. Passive aggressive behaviours trigger me too, but I didn't know why they triggered me so much. They actually trigger this deep need to communicate myself (so, I ruminate over best way to explain myself), and this hopelessness I will never be understood anyways (so I keep ruminating how I could explain myself if I had the chance). I don't know if this post helps anybody in any way, but it helped me, so I'm posting it anyway.

[treesgrowslowly]

Pianissimo thank you for posting that. I think it will help others too. Yes, I have read that as well - that when there is a stressful incident, if the parent can help the child to process it, then it makes a huge difference.

Call me Cordelia, I think the first paragraph here is a good definition of how co-regulation is about having parents who stay calm enough that they can help their children with different emotions:

https://www.complextrauma.org/glossary/co-regulation/

The reason I think this is relevant to our forum is because NPD parents create a lot of stress for children, and that dysregulates the child's emotional / nervous system - as explained here:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/the-narcissist-in-your-life/202009/social-and-performance-anxiety-in-children-narcissists

Trees