When your T obviously doesn't 'get' it

[feralcat]

Feeling very disappointed. I'm going to have to stop seeing the therapist I had so much faith in, initially. It was lovely to have someone I felt I could talk to about ...anything. She is empathic, and has been playing it the way I asked. Not asking me to go through the usual gamut re having to explain my /family history etc. As I try to move forward, rather than constantly ruminating on the past.

But, as the sessions have progressed, I've decided that she doesn't really get it. Despite being a 'trauma specialist'. I'm back to feeling that individuals who haven't personally experienced trauma -  or dealt with people IRL who don't respond in reciprocal/empathic ways - can't understand , in any realistic way. I.e that some people ARE abusive in a covert way, and enjoy it. That they are unreasonable, can't/don't want to change. That it is intergenerational. No amount of research or reading can enlighten them.

I get the impression that she thinks that it's a matter of my communicating in the 'right way'. Then everything will suddenly be hunky dory. E.g this week I wanted to ask her advice re when/if/how to challenge behaviours that make me unhappy. And tbh aren't always great for the person themselves, in terms of forming healthy relationships etc. (My default when unhappy or nervous is to run away/avoid (thanks for that ,unPdM)). Could she help me re how to broach uncomfortable subjects ? Nope. She intimated that I'm probably not 'engaging' effectively. Plus, do I think I'm maybe a bit too critical ? ( yup, I am, I admitted it. But I don't go round openly criticising others - or I wouldn't be asking her how not to be so avoidant in the first place. Plus, aren't  we all a bit critical ? I'm not the Dalai Llama)

So...for once in my life I'm not going to cancel her, and ghost. I will attend our last session. I won't criticise her, but I will say that I think i need to concentrate on becoming (even more) self sufficient psychologically. (Because tbh apart from forums like this I give up on trying to find anyone who understands).
Wish me luck 

[bee well]

Hi feralcat,

I don't know much about your T but for me it stands out when there is moslty a focus on commication, because there is so much complexity to trauma, and as many survivors know, there is no amount of communication skills that will change how an abuser engages (unless we are talking about the rare unicorn who wants to get help.)

I agree that someone who "gets it" is likely to offer more than a therapist that hasn't been through things "we" have. I have the impression there are a lot of trauma therapists who get into that area because its a relatively new, emerging area of specialization. On the other hand, I try to keep an open mind because I think even people who haven't had our experience can be great teachers.

I think it's good that you are trusting yourself. You have given it a chance, and decided it's time to move on.

For me the best part of reading you post was seeing this:

"So...for once in my life I'm not going to cancel her, and ghost. I will attend our last session. I won't criticise her, but I will say that I think i need to concentrate on becoming (even more) self sufficient psychologically. (Because tbh apart from forums like this I give up on trying to find anyone who understands)."

Going in there and saying that,  in my opinion, is a big step in relational healing. It's a mature, assertive way of dealing with things, which would show consideration both for you and your therapist. If your therapist doesn't get it that's a sign to move on. If the therapist does get it, than it's all good-- you will have just experienced a functional human interaction. That would be a moment to clebrate as you move on.

For now you might not want to look for anyone else outside here that understands, but you have the right to change your mind. And you never know when or where other occasions for healing will emerge in the future.

[feralcat]

Thank you, Bee Well.
You are spot on. I don't know whether I'll actually say to her that I don't think she actually gets it. I'll have to see how it goes. We've gotten into a pattern of me indicating beforehand what I want to discuss , so I will let her know that I'm looking to wind up our sessions.

It's great that she is empathic, but there always seems to be a stumbling block where she seems to be trying to get me to respond to others as though they're (trainable ?) , and I end up trying to justify why that won't work. Which is basically me having to JADE.. Ironic as I've spent so long clamping down on that habit.

You're probably right about the 'new field' scenario. I get that it's attractive, if you get what I mean.
Unfortunately it can may also result in feelings of frustration and ( competitiveness?) as the T proposes their theory , while the more well informed client - with lived experience - disagrees. My T , for example , doesn't like me 'labelling' things - or bringing up ideas like the Karpman Drama Triangle. Cos I'm meant to be the less knowledgeable one ?
(Ps. I was a mental health professional back in the day. I get the impression many traumatised people are drawn to the Caring professions )

I thought that for once I'd found someone who I could talk to at the level of understanding I now have, but instead was feeling once again infantilised. Ah well, back to the drawing board. C'est la vie

[Hazy111]

I learnt as others have , assertion just doesnt work with determined PDs. They dont want boundaries, they want enmeshment control and narc supply

[pianissimo]

I tried one or two sessions of online therapy. The sessions left me feel misunderstood and alone. These days, I'm thinking of trying therapy again, but my big fear is, again, I will end up feeling misunderstood, and I'm afraid this will leave me feeling worse than before. I'm also afraid I would project my anger and frustration for everyone who left me feel unseen on to the therapist. Also, I'm afraid the therapist would adopt a paternalistic approach, like, if I was angry with something, it would bother me if the therapist had a zen attitude.

Regarding JADE thing: I have a friend I used to share some of the problems I was having at work. She was empathetic, but she wouldn't understand was the problem in the situations I described, and I would end up explaining her everything I can. Over time, I stopped sharing with her because it felt exhausting to explain her everything in detail. It felt like JADEing. So meaning well is not enough.

I hope the next therapist will be a better match for you.

[notrightinthehead]

I had several therapists of different approaches over the years, and they all helped me a bit. Eventually we came to a point where I had the feeling that I had gone as far as I could with them and did not go back. And then I found one who worked wonders for me.  I don't think she ever gave me one bit of advice, but she went with me wherever I wanted to go. And I had ever so painful and almost re- traumatizing sessions with her, and all the time I felt held, supported and accepted by her.  If you click with someone, you know it.  Like every human being, a therapist can also mean well but not use the right approach for you. The advice she has for you might be valid and good, but you are not yet ready to hear it. Or you know it already but don't want to implement. Or it might work for others but not you. We all do the work at our own pace and use our own approach. At least you felt accepted and empathized with. Now you find someone with whom you can go the next step. 

[LemonLime]

Hi FeralCat,
I'm sorry you're experiencing this.  I can so relate.   I want so much to find a therapist that works, but I've all but given up.
I've had experiences similar to what you write about.   After raging at me, my UPD sib wrote me a long email, trying to lovebomb me and also deflect any blame (also just completely ignoring the fact that she raged....just as if it never happened).   But in her lovebomb email she brought up an incident that happened literally 40 years ago where she and I were little kids staying for a week with a neighbors while my parents had to be out of town.  Supposedly sib stood up to the father of the house who wanted to spank me for some minor transgression.   I don't remember the whole thing as I was only 3 years old.  Anyhow, my sib for some reason wanted to rehash that story, out of the blue, I suppose to prove to me how awesome an older sib she is?       And sib suggested that she and I have a private meeting to "talk about the way we were brought up and how our parents treated us so differently from each other"

I showed the email to my T who said "what's the harm in meeting with your sib?"   This is after she had seen adequate evidence to know that my sib has PD tendencies.
MEET PRIVATELY with an uPD PERSON?    Oh.My.Gosh.   What, so she can rage at me privately and then lie to everyone about what happened in the meeting?
I had to stop therapy with this T.   I knew immediately this would not work.  T was acting as though PD sib is not PD.  And I felt alone and sad.  This is a T who states she works with PD's.   And she does do DBT.  But apparently doesn't understand what it's like to LIVE with a PD in your family.

I'm so sorry.  For you and for the rest of us trying to find a T that "gets it".    I do feel that I started to JADE with the T, and that's when I knew I had to leave.

Thank goodness for this forum.  Really, thank goodness for all of you.

[bee well]

Hi feralcat,

You wrote:
"...about the 'new field' scenario. I get that it's attractive, if you get what I mean.
Unfortunately it can may also result in feelings of frustration and ( competitiveness?) as the T proposes their theory , while the more well informed client - with lived experience - disagrees. My T , for example , doesn't like me 'labelling' things - or bringing up ideas like the Karpman Drama Triangle. Cos I'm meant to be the less knowledgeable one ? (Ps. I was a mental health professional back in the day. I get the impression many traumatised people are drawn to the Caring professions )"

I totally get that.

I find a lot of professionals, especially doctors  are like that. I've dealt with that a lot lately. I have found myself walking on eggshells at times because doctors get bristly when they hear the patient (me) using terms they "shouldn't know," or making sense of my symptoms. I'm getting ready to see a new doc and wondering how to talk to them about my condition. If I could treat myself I would...

I imagine that with your background that would be even more frustrating (don't have a better word, it would be for me) to encounter that attitude in therapy.

Yes, many trauma therapists get into the field, often due to having been truamatized themselves. (My hat goes off to all of those therapists..) Unfortunately there are just as many who really don't, and give impractical advice.

Just as an aside, I am not in therapy now because I cannot afford mentally or financially to shop around (not in a position to risk).

Whatever you decide to do I glad you're here (I'm glad we are all here) where you can talk to people understand where you are coming from.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hey feralcat,

Not all T's get it - as you know. Even those who say they are trauma informed, might not be. It is wise to move on and find someone that is a real fit for where you are at right now.

There's a red flag there for sure if she is suggesting that you need to 'communicate better' to address the issues you're bringing to her to figure out. A truly trauma informed therapist would probably be aware of how often you have already spent your life blaming yourself for things that don't go well (which is a common experience after trauma).

It is good that you recognize that in the past you would have just ghosted her and you recognize that ghosting people can be a part of trauma responses. However, this isn't a friend or person you've met who wanted to be friends with you and now you are backing away. Ghosting in those situations is different - 'ghosting' a professional that you're paying is not the same thing in my opinion. We're not obligated to explain to an health care provider, why we are moving on to a different provider / clinician / doctor / etc... You can just stop making appts with her and move on to find someone new to work with.

The thing about recovery, for a lot of us, myself included, is that we are learning how to assert ourselves and name our needs and wants with people. But in a lot of cases, the other person may just get defensive instead of hearing us. If she does that with you, it's good for you to know that it is not your fault. If she doesn't know how to help you, she may or may not want to hear it.

Either way, I am very hopeful that you will find a new therapist who is a good fit. It is really hard to know until you've spent some time with them. It can be frustrating to start over but it is worth it to find someone who can help you.

Trust your gut.

Trees

[feralcat]

Thank you all very much !

I love this forum. At one time I did wonder whether I should 'wean' myself off it. Whether I was using it too much as a ruminating tool. That I couldn't move on. It's the social media resource I first found when wanting to work out what on earth to do with the realisation that my 'normal' was in fact NOT. But I kept coming back time after time. Whatever stage of evolution I reach, there is advice and support to be found. And the complexity and intelligence of said advice evolves apace. Which is great for someone as analytical as me.

I'm no longer worried about talking to my T, although no doubt it will feel awkward.
I'd first approached her with a view of trying EMDR. Which turned out to be a no go due to Covid. Because she is empathic, and advertised as having a background in trauma counselling, I fell into believing I could safely expose my (inner child ?) . Who just wanted someone who might believe and comfort her. I've never had that. Any overt confidence I have is of the 'fake it till you make'  it version.

Now that I don't feel that trust any more, I feel my defence mechanisms slotting back into place. Until my late 20s I think I was basically an innocent abroad. But I got to a space where I either had to survive or go under. And something in me decided to survive. That I had to be my own number one, for my child's sake. And mine.
This may sound nuts, but I literally could feel a psychological wall building around my core.
Now, when pushed hard enough, I can feel it rising up. I can't stop it. The process is unreversible.

And that's what I feel like now. My child is back in her Pandora's Box. My 'adult' is back in charge.
It's a shame though. Self sufficiency is great in a way, but it can feel lonely sometimes.

Which is why I can only say Thank You all for being there X

[thduda]

Wow, I could have written this post. I was so excited about a new therapist and then last week she said such an invalidating thing about "why I didn't communicate my feelings with my family of origin in the past."(a) I would have been gaslit (b) it wouldn't have done any good (c) no-one in my family talked about feelings ever.

I am working on trying to find a therapist who specializes in recovery from narcissistic abuse. And one that will also take my insurance. That's going to be a hard task!

Best of luck to you feral cat!

[feralcat]

So sorry, jdcooper

It's all about trust, isn't it ? I've had enough invalidation and DARVOing throughout my life from family, and others. Cos I'm soft. I don't need it from a T.
I really do.not.need any implications that my ongoing issues are because I haven't tried hard enough/in the right way/ not understood . Especially when my asking for hints and tips on how to approach someone assertively re something I feel uncertain about get the response of 'well it depends on the situation'. 

I'll just ask here. Or read a book. Or run away as usual