Strategies for dealing with verbal abuse / yelling

[rockandhardplace]

I don't talk to UPDh, but he seems to be quite clever at finding ways to verbally abuse me. Sometimes I will be chatting to the kids and he'll butt in and before I know it I can't get a word in and he's yelling an inch from my face and sometimes following me into my room. I'm sick of having to retreat to my room when he's the one in the wrong. I've starting recording him, and that's been quite revealing. He still rages but not as severe and then I can see exactly what was said. Over the years he used to accuse me of being the aggressive one. I knew I wasn't but I even suggested we see a therapist and I'd be happy to work on myself if I really was. Eventually I realised that he sees me disagreeing with him as being aggressive. But watching the video it's more than that. He's walking around the kitchen calling me names, then getting in close to the camera to mock or belittle me. At one point he says "you just haven't ever accepted what you are" (projection?). I ask what am i? he says you're always blaming other people, it's always someone else fault. I'm like what are you talking about we were discussing X... and he goes this, what you're doing now, me: what am i doing? and he moves closer and closer, this, you're trying to bully me, trying to be aggressive and then he knocks phone out of my hand.
It's horrible to watch and makes me sick to think this is the father of my children, but makes me realise it's not just when I disagree with him that he  sees me as aggressive, when he is the one who is acting aggressively he accuses me of it.
But the issue is that my kids hear all this. And weirdly my 15 year old was cold with me after this incident. She was downstairs and shouts up stop fighting guys. I don't know if his aggressive behaviour is just so normal to her that if I say anything it seems like I'm just arguing. My 12 year old hides in his room. I've repeatedly told him to only discuss things by email / text as it's not fair to the kids but he's not rational.
So any ideas?? Only thing I've come up with is maybe turning on loud music so the kids can't hear what he's saying but I don't have to hide in my room.

[square]

Hi,

I'm so sorry this is happening. It's nit good at all.

There are no strategies to control his behavior. You can only control yours. His behavior is abusive.

Your children only know how stressful the altercations are. They may not see it as him causing it and you being victimized; they may just want "you guys to just stop it" because they feel unsafe and depend on you to keep them safe. My H felt that way as a child and was not able to suss out who was causing what.

Is ending the relationship an option?

For now, all I can think of is to increase what you have already been working on: gray rock so there are fewer opportunities for him to blow up, don't engage, and just leave the interaction as soon as there is any conflict. If going to your room does the trick, great, or take the kids and leave the house if necessary.

I'm gonna say no to the loud music. It won't solve anything. The kids will just hate loud music.

[Starboard Song]

I know this will not often work. Maybe never. But controlling the environment can do a lot: "If we are going to discuss this, let's go sit down in a room and talk quietly, so we aren't raising our voices." Having that as a boundary sounds great, except I honestly don't know how to enforce a boundary like that with someone in the house.

I wish you a lot of strength on this journey.

[square]

More thoughts. If I were in a situation where I was planning to make a move (end relationship) but I could not do it yet, I might consider an extreme gray rock of not engaging. There is a cost to this but here's what it looks like.

He says "you haven't accepted who you wre."
You say (instead of taking the bait and asking the obvious question) in the dullest possible voice, "oh. Okay." Not looking at him, not ignoring him but just being unthreatening. Like you really give up.

He won't stop cold but perhaps he'll run out of steam quicker. Don't AGREE with him, just say words that indicate you hear and don't fight but don't engage.

If he says things to attack you for not engaging, just get more and more confused and dull. "You're just playing some kind of victim, aren't you?" "Oh. I don't even know." (Not looking, almost mumbling, speaking slowly, no sarcasm, just unthreatening).

[Starboard Song]

Square isn't wrong. Square is spot on. But beware: this is not a behavior we use -- I don't think -- when our goal is to maintain or to restore a loving relationship. Grey Rock is destructive of a relationship: it sacrifices a loving relationship for a chance at peace. Grey Rock is perfect for a stalker, a bully at the get together, or a co-worker you don't collaborate with.

I say this because we work hard here at Out of the FOG to avoid what we call RUN messages. Especially when there is a marriage or children involved, it is inappropriate for us online strangers to recommend leaving. Now, you don't owe us your thoughts on that: that's very personal. But I've seen people here say they were grey rocking their boyfriend, for instance, and then complaining that he'd lost interest and didn't seem to love them as much. Yikes! So please be careful to consider your long-term goals as well as short-term needs when you develop tactics.

Have you checked out our Toolbox yet? The What To Do page is simply outstanding. And the What It Feels Like page may be a big help, just letting you know that you are not alone.

[rockandhardplace]

Star- don't worry there is literally no hope not one hope whatsoever that this relationship can be saved - I only care about getting away safely without my children getting too damaged.
book - last time this happened I said "this is just more abuse and harassment, if you continue I will go to my room, but. I need to make dinner for GC". (her name obviously!). He said fine and left. But as soon as GC went into the shower he started again. I feel like no matter how hard I try and not engage he finds sneaky ways of making it almost impossible. And the other issue is that it took me more then 10 years to see what was happening. I used to just appease him, walk on eggshells, but he used to denigrate me to my own children in front of me and I did some minor JADeing, but he always got his way. We always did the family holidays / activities he wanted to. He formed an alliance with GC against me basically. Elevated her to partner status in the family - so in his head that's a rung below him but above me. He used to have conversations at the weekend with her about what to do and then come in and tell me and other kids the plan. I was so busy with a baby at the time and head always spinning from the confusion of living with him that I went along with everything to keep the peace. So I worry about not standing up for myself and my views when the kids are around. So this time it was me needing to make GC dinner as she gets home late from her dance class, but other times I'm talking to my kids about something when he starts criticising my perspective. I think in the old days I might've just gone silent, I don't know, but he has such toxic ideas. Once it was me talking to the kids about how shocking watching a car ram into a protester during the BLM protests. Some of the comments I was reading online were vile and he butts in saying driver probably felt scared, then started accusing me of going ballistic over little things and shouting that "you must empathise with them" and even "you have to agree with me". He had our then 5 year old on his shoulders and it felt very very threatening to me. Need to run will finish this thought later...

[square]

Sorry, I am tired today and think I didn't get this quite right.

Extreme gray rock may not be necessary as a first step. Basic noJADE with MC/GR should probably be first step.

So that is just stopping engaging, stopping the emsil arguments, stopping taking the bait and asking the set up questions, all of that.

Sorry again, not feeling super clear today.

—-

To your most recent post, also sto telling him he is abusing you, stop naming his behaviors, etc. That just makes it easy for him to weaponize.

The piint is to give up on him being rational, give up on trying to explain hus behavior is wrong, etc. If he hasn't understood or cared by now, he won't.

[square]

Also don't tell him your boundaries, just do them. Don't tell him "if you yell at me I will leave the room." Just do it. (You can say "we can talk later after calming down" or "I'm not okay with being called names" as you leave, just don't announce your plan.)

[Starboard Song]

 

[escapingman]

This is very triggering for me just coming out of my relationship with uNPDstbxw, she use to scream in my face following me around the house shouting after me. The only way to cope is to physically remove oneself. I have children in similar age to yours and they really get damaged by living in this environment. I hope you find the strength to do the right thing and protect yourself and the children. All love to you!

[PlantFlowersNotWeeds]

I think that children are very complex and many don't see one as the abuser and one the victim.  They see/hear/feel the toxic energy.  They may blame one for yelling and one for taking it.  They might even  see you as the yeller at times or the one that triggers it....

I think in the abuse cycle children see each parent participate, regardless of the role. And, they want it to stop.

Selfishly, I'd like my son to really see his dad, see how he abused me. I think in time he'll see some of it.  Now, he sees that I'm definitely the stable , confident, supportive parent.

[PlantFlowersNotWeeds]

You are not to blame for this.