She found my financial transactions

[Prototypian]

I didn't notice a note thing in the mail confirming the sale of some company stock and she found out about it.   The weird thing.  And I'm going to say weird isn't that she asked what I spent the money on..  the 20 questions was this above board unnatural fear and deep concern that 1) I hadn't sold at a high for the stock and 2) she was positive that there would be short term capital gains tax but there actually isn't.  Although she is sure beyond any shadow of a doubt that there is.   I was stunned.   No questions about what I was purchasing.   Just a 20 questions game then insistence that she gets to review the last 6 months of stock high and low prices and arguen with me about the point where I should have chosen to sell.  I don't think she knows I picked out cabinets without major approval.

[notrightinthehead]

I hope you let her do her own research into the stock price movements and occupied yourself with a further step towards emancipation.

[escapingman]

jsinjin, I agree with Bookwork, you need to put a stop to this. But I know how difficult that is without major disruption. My uNPDxw used to go through every credit card statement and ticked off every single transaction and matched with a receipt, if there wasn't a matching receipt she went into panic mode and thought the transaction was fraudulent and demanded me either presenting a receipt or call the credit card company and stop the transaction. This was never really to control what I was spending money on, I would probably have got away with transactions from a brothel in the red light district as long as I had a receipt (yes a bit extreme but you get the point). About 6 months ago I stopped all credit card statements to come and told her I had enough, she moaned a bit but then that was it. I feel relieved to not have to get receipts for every purchase anymore, although old habits die slow and I still get receipts for most purchases, but now I throw them in the bin and not collect them for years.

Good luck jsinjin, please save yourself and your kids, you can't live under this control.

[SonofThunder]

I didn't notice a note thing in the mail confirming the sale of some company stock and she found out about it.   The weird thing.  And I'm going to say weird isn't that she asked what I spent the money on..  the 20 questions was this above board unnatural fear and deep concern that 1) I hadn't sold at a high for the stock and 2) she was positive that there would be short term capital gains tax but there actually isn't.  Although she is sure beyond any shadow of a doubt that there is.   I was stunned.   No questions about what I was purchasing.   Just a 20 questions game then insistence that she gets to review the last 6 months of stock high and low prices and arguen with me about the point where I should have chosen to sell.  I don't think she knows I picked out cabinets without major approval.

Jsinjin, I find it interesting also that she did not question the direction of the revenue stream following the sale.  But your description of her concerns fit perfectly into the narrative of her ocpd mindset and questioning everyone else's decision-making vs what decisions she would have made. 

You obviously know her very-very well, and when i find things 'odd' in both the past and current responses from my stbx and uPDf, especially now that im educated in PD traits, I pause.  I pause to consider the oddness and think deeply about my past PD experiences and what I learned later regarding those 'odd' experiences.  In most cases, where my 'odd' radar went off, i realized that the PD (both my uPDw and my uPDf) was using projection,  and what i refer to as 'smokescreening' to detour the subject away from something they dont want unearthed, by creating drama regarding me.

Since your PDw is kicking up dust in questioning your decision making in selling stock, but oddly not questioning the money flow, is it a possibility that she has spent some money or made decisions in areas she would rather you not discover? 

That 'smoke-screening' effect in my experiences has been very interesting, detouring drama that tries to take my focus elsewhere, and my radar is now highly attuned to it.  What my PD people don't know, is that their smoke-screening raises a flag and gives me helpful clues in the timeline and area to search and discover. 

SoT

[Prototypian]

This was never really to control what I was spending money on, I would probably have got away with transactions from a brothel in the red light district as long as I had a receipt (yes a bit extreme but you get the point).

This is it exactly!   You understand!   It's not at all about what I spend money on!   It's about whether that purchase was documented, was the "right" purchase at the time and had been researched and weighed against alternatives and then documented.

Her concern isn't at all about the money.  And it's not about controlling me specifically; I'm just a piece of her machinery.   The concern is about what the process is and whether it is right or not.   

The other day an argument started that has taken 48 hours with no sign of stopping.   Our son has some activity coming up and it's on the 7th.   She said "no it's the 9th".  My son and I both said, "no it's the 7th".   She didn't believe us and then we had to show her outlook calendars, then the emails then the forwarded invite.   And she won't let it go.   In her own mind she can't figure out why she would have ever thought it was the 9th.   But the 20 question game goes on for days asking to see emails and texts.   She isn't doing it to figure out if we lied or check up on us.   In her mind some process went wrong in that date (I can't remember anything which is why I have a calendar and I misplaced junk all the time and I write it off as early dementia) and she absolutely can't let it go.  She has to somehow figure out what specific chain of events led her to think the date was different than what it is but that concern interrupts all other activities.

Same thing with this.   The money isn't a concern, the fact that I'm using it for sactivties at the cottage isn't a concern.  The concerns are always about the enormous fear of "is it right", "did I (me) choose the wrong thing", "is whatever he is doing documented and checked with rules", "is anything permanently changed?"

We continue to pay for a landline phone at our home.   We DO NOT HAVE A PHONE THAT PLUGS INTO THE WALL AND ACTS AS A REGULAR PHONE.  The landline costs like 10 dollars a month and we don't use it.   The money doesn't matter to her.   What she is most and deepest concerned about is "what will happen if someday someone needs to get a hold of us and can't and we don't have that number anymore".   Again, it's been 7+ years that we have not had an actual phone in the home.   At least I get some satisfaction at messing with telemarketers.   To me this is an administrative task of canceling it.  To her it's a process of hours of documenting, seeing what numbers have called that number, tracking them down and making sure none were important and deciding what specifically should be done.   Same thing with the stock and the cottage.

It's just life.  I'm just glad I'm realizing it's not normal.

[escapingman]

Since your PDw is kicking up dust in questioning your decision making in selling stock, but oddly not questioning the money flow, is it a possibility that she has spent some money or made decisions in areas she would rather you not discover? 

That 'smoke-screening' effect in my experiences has been very interesting, detouring drama that tries to take my focus elsewhere, and my radar is now highly attuned to it.  What my PD people don't know, is that their smoke-screening raises a flag and gives me helpful clues in the timeline and area to search and discover. 

This could be it SoT. My STBX just accused me of emptying the joint bank accounts now during our divorce, but what she doesn't know is that I have monitored her own tanking of the accounts for months and have detailed information of every transaction. She has requested all my credit card statements etc so prove every penny spent, but she herself would not be able to prove her transactions. They really have warped minds and only think as long as the nose goes.

[SonofThunder]

Since your PDw is kicking up dust in questioning your decision making in selling stock, but oddly not questioning the money flow, is it a possibility that she has spent some money or made decisions in areas she would rather you not discover? 

That 'smoke-screening' effect in my experiences has been very interesting, detouring drama that tries to take my focus elsewhere, and my radar is now highly attuned to it.  What my PD people don't know, is that their smoke-screening raises a flag and gives me helpful clues in the timeline and area to search and discover. 

This could be it SoT. My STBX just accused me of emptying the joint bank accounts now during our divorce, but what she doesn't know is that I have monitored her own tanking of the accounts for months and have detailed information of every transaction. She has requested all my credit card statements etc so prove every penny spent, but she herself would not be able to prove her transactions. They really have warped minds and only think as long as the nose goes.

Good high-radar and discovery work EM!

SoT

[escapingman]

Good high-radar and discovery work EM!

What I really can't get my head around is that she, through her solicitor, has sent a letter to my solicitor saying that money has disappeared from the accounts and I need to show my statements. But all money gone is what she has taken! 

[SonofThunder]

This was never really to control what I was spending money on, I would probably have got away with transactions from a brothel in the red light district as long as I had a receipt (yes a bit extreme but you get the point).

This is it exactly!   You understand!   It's not at all about what I spend money on!   It's about whether that purchase was documented, was the "right" purchase at the time and had been researched and weighed against alternatives and then documented.

Her concern isn't at all about the money.  And it's not about controlling me specifically; I'm just a piece of her machinery.   The concern is about what the process is and whether it is right or not.   

The other day an argument started that has taken 48 hours with no sign of stopping.   Our son has some activity coming up and it's on the 7th.   She said "no it's the 9th".  My son and I both said, "no it's the 7th".   She didn't believe us and then we had to show her outlook calendars, then the emails then the forwarded invite.   And she won't let it go.   In her own mind she can't figure out why she would have ever thought it was the 9th.   But the 20 question game goes on for days asking to see emails and texts.   She isn't doing it to figure out if we lied or check up on us.   In her mind some process went wrong in that date (I can't remember anything which is why I have a calendar and I misplaced junk all the time and I write it off as early dementia) and she absolutely can't let it go.  She has to somehow figure out what specific chain of events led her to think the date was different than what it is but that concern interrupts all other activities.

Same thing with this.   The money isn't a concern, the fact that I'm using it for sactivties at the cottage isn't a concern.  The concerns are always about the enormous fear of "is it right", "did I (me) choose the wrong thing", "is whatever he is doing documented and checked with rules", "is anything permanently changed?"

We continue to pay for a landline phone at our home.   We DO NOT HAVE A PHONE THAT PLUGS INTO THE WALL AND ACTS AS A REGULAR PHONE.  The landline costs like 10 dollars a month and we don't use it.   The money doesn't matter to her.   What she is most and deepest concerned about is "what will happen if someday someone needs to get a hold of us and can't and we don't have that number anymore".   Again, it's been 7+ years that we have not had an actual phone in the home.   At least I get some satisfaction at messing with telemarketers.   To me this is an administrative task of canceling it.  To her it's a process of hours of documenting, seeing what numbers have called that number, tracking them down and making sure none were important and deciding what specifically should be done.   Same thing with the stock and the cottage.

It's just life.  I'm just glad I'm realizing it's not normal.

Understood and thanks for clarifying.  Does 'the money' (any monies that she controls, whether it be yours or others, such as political monies) matter to her in a way that is not just about control/procedures?

SoT

[Prototypian]

That 'smoke-screening' effect in my experiences has been very interesting, detouring drama that tries to take my focus elsewhere, and my radar is now highly attuned to it.  What my PD people don't know, is that their smoke-screening raises a flag and gives me helpful clues in the timeline and area to search and discover.

SoT

She does actually do lots of things for charity and campaigns related to her political career that are big ticket items.   I don't worry much about it because I just don't have the bandwidth.   Finances are weird with her.   Investments for example in her world everything is cash and money market accounts all the time for every investment no matter what it is.  It makes her anxious and nervous to an absolute upset point to know that my 401k or IRAs are invested in various index and equity funds when the market could go down.  I feel like I pay some financial goobers in banking to deal with this and they seem to do a good job.   But she can't handle a strategy unless every single part is completely understood and has no risk.    This isn't really a discussion of investment strategy.   It's a discussion of the inability to do anything without a bizarre set of super rules in place to cover every action.

[Prototypian]

Understood and thanks for clarifying.  Does 'the money' (any monies that she controls, whether it be yours or others, such as political monies) matter to her in a way that is not just about control/procedures?

SoT

SOT

Money oddly enough to doesn't matter to her at all.   There is often a desire to show other people that we are not financially well off which is far from the truth.   She did grow up dirt poor like not having electricity sometimes and being on full free meals at her school for she and her brothers and food stamps/not always having utilities etc.  But as I've looked at it, the fear of waste isn't about hoarding for a calamity.   She is literally paralyzed by rules.   The hoarding for her is over 25 years of every check stub for every single bank whether we have it still or not and every single credit card receipt and even old airline tickets in case it is needed.   We have all the documentation on my former company perk American airlines admirals club membership even though I haven't been a member or stepped on a plane in years.   Not just the password and pin, the marketing brochures of "member benefits".   It's a paralyzing fear she has of not having something that could be needed and I will tell you when she does find that someone needs the "login for the car dealership benefits portal" she is absolutely thrilled to find those documents in a pile.   

It's another story but having a clean home and uncluttered space is completely pretentious to her and she hates it.   Sometimes I think that a balanced portfolio of investments and proper files is also some sort of pretentious behavior

I don't know the why, really.   I'm just glad to be realizing it's it normal and doesn't have to be.

[justducky]

The other day an argument started that has taken 48 hours with no sign of stopping.   Our son has some activity coming up and it's on the 7th.   She said "no it's the 9th".  My son and I both said, "no it's the 7th".   She didn't believe us and then we had to show her outlook calendars, then the emails then the forwarded invite.   And she won't let it go.   In her own mind she can't figure out why she would have ever thought it was the 9th.   But the 20 question game goes on for days asking to see emails and texts.  

Jsinjin, this is exactly it. It's a game. You and your son can stop playing.

It doesn't matter why she plays this abusive game. You don't have to engage.

When she demands to see the calendar or emails again, ignore her. If she keeps badgering, leave the room. If she won't stop, leave the house.

You and your kids don't have to live like this.

FWIW, my uPD father did similar things but not for as long of a time period. He'd ask a question. I'd say, "I don't know. Let me check the calendar." Then he'd say, "Oh, don't get up. You don't have to look now." but ask again a few minutes later. He tried his best to try to keep you in your chair giving him attention. It was a nonsensical double bind. I think these were his goals and motivations:

1. He wanted the answer to the question.
2. He wanted the power trip of ordering someone else to get the info for him.
3. He wanted the power trip of dictating when his servant got the info.
4. He wanted his servant to stay put and keep giving him attention.

Somehow as a teenager I saw through his bullsh*t and realized what he claimed he wanted on the surface wasn't his end goal. And that he was disturbed.

I don't understand what makes your wife tick, but she's horribly abusive to you and your kids.

[Stillirise]

This thread has made me make a connection in my own life, so thanks! First of all, your wife might not have the bandwidth to even consider that you could have spent the money on something major, without her through study and input.

Secondly, the fact that she grew up in poverty may provide a clue to the underpinnings of her disorder.  Not that it changes anything, it is still abusive, but I know you've been seeking understanding.  This part reminded me of my own mother.  She doesn't have a PD, but she definitely has some tendencies that sound familiar here.  She is fastidious with record keeping, especially financial records, but also other random things, like her flower gardens. She borders on hoarding, example, I noticed recently that she has empty boxes in her garage for the last 3 new coffee pots she bought, with all the paperwork, etc. (my step dad is known for dropping the carafes and breaking them.) She also has boxes of very old financial records in storage, organized and labeled.  She has cabinets with long out of date canned food, because she hates to throw out something that's unused. She is adverse to financial risk, and hooked on details, although she has channeled this into being quite successful in business.  I think, in part, because she is co-dependent, and first my dad, and now my step-dad, were the financial risk takers. Both were happy to let her worry about the risk and the details, so it balanced out. Mom doesn't take the rest of us to task quite like your wife does, for not following her "rules," which is why would say mom doesn't have a PD surrounding this.  However, she is in her 70's and still goes to the office. I think most of her time there is spent checking the details of everything, and making her own records after the employees that have been paid to do the job, do theirs. She doesn't hover really, it's more for her own peace of mind, illusion of control, and having everything in her own system, it seems.  It was only recently that I realized all this, and how she likely has terrible anxiety over it, and how growing up with her anxiety is likely partially how I became ripe for falling for updxh.  Since divorcing him, she sometimes acts like I'm one step away from welfare, and seems truly concerned that I'll be able to support myself and the kids (I'm fine). I think a childhood trauma, such as living in abject poverty, is a factor in creating these frameworks in the mind, as a protective mechanism. Like most things, the results are on a scale, from mild quirk to severe disorder.  I do wonder what the impacts of living like this will be for your own children.

[Boat Babe]

Good high-radar and discovery work EM!

What I really can't get my head around is that she, through her solicitor, has sent a letter to my solicitor saying that money has disappeared from the accounts and I need to show my statements. But all money gone is what she has taken! 

Extinction burst my friend. Your STBX is freaking out, big time. She isn't thinking straight, at all. This will so bite here on the bum. Keep documenting and keep breathing.

[1footouttadefog]

My spouse has 2very tax return for decades.  They are in these special yellow envelope folders.  He used to get them dont at the same place every year.  We moved and he went to the old oreosrer and bought some of tue folders.  Later she had passed away as a nonagenarian and I had to locate and order a box of them so all the wood match.  We recently bought a new fili f cabinet because he did not want to stake them two high.  His display would not be as good or so he says.  I asked him who was going to see the display. 

OCD is a tough one.

Hoping that cottage is all you hope it will be.