Coming to terms

[CagedBirdSinging]

I left my marriage 18 months ago. My husband is a diagnosed narcissist (npd/bpd). I've heard that once you come Out of the FOG, you start to see ALL the pds in your life. My biggest heartache has been the realisation my mom is pd too.

My mom and ex hate each other. I always thought it was 'mom vs pdH'. I blamed him for everything. Now I'm starting to see that she had a role to play too.

She never wanted me to grow up. She criticises everyone. She breaks my trust. The entire town knows the intimate details of my divorce. My mom tells everyone. She criticises everyone behind their backs. She emotionally abuses my dad, and has done for years. She should have left him, but instead allowed him to financially support her, whilst treating him like crap. She lies and tells everyone we had an idyllic childhood. In reality my childhood was one of being bullied by her, screamed at, her walking out on us all the time and screaming at my dad, them fighting constantly. She is an alcoholic but hides that too. She has hated every boyfriend I've ever had, and I've lived with constant guilt and shame.

Where I struggle is- I've always felt as if I had to choose. Either mom is pd or exH is pd- surely not both?! It has felt like, by admitting mom is pd, it somehow means exH is less culpable for his appalling behaviour.

My second heartache has been admitting it's not either/or. It's both of them.
I was raised by a pd mother and this groomed me for a pd marriage.
Mom criticises me for not standing up to expdH, and I want to scream HOW CAN I STAND UP TO HIM? You raised me NOT to stand up to anyone!!!

For now, it's about finding a way to move forward, and away from both of them. I'm also concerned that I don't want to fall into the same patterns with my kids. How can I make sure I'm not parenting like my mom? I'm scared that I don't want my kids to go through what I've been through. I want them to be independent and free and HAPPY -to have the freedom to be themselves and follow their dreams, and to live in a joyful, peaceful home- something I never had.

(Un)CagedBirdSinging

[donutmoonpanda]

I didn't realize for many years that both my parents have PDs. That both of them were terrible and I didn't stand a chance. Realizing that sooner would have meant understanding just how unsafe my childhood was and that nothing healthy had been modeled for me.

"I'm also concerned that I don't want to fall into the same patterns with my kids. How can I make sure I'm not parenting like my mom? I'm scared that I don't want my kids to go through what I've been through. I want them to be independent and free and HAPPY -to have the freedom to be themselves and follow their dreams, and to live in a joyful, peaceful home- something I never had."

I think that alone tells you that you aren't like your mother. Just having that thought makes you different. I don't think PD parents ever think of us in the same way. It's never about the kids, it's about them.

[11JB68]

I'm sorry you're having to reckon with this.  I believe I had a similar situation.  Didn't realize for a long time.  Ended up in therapy because I felt stuck/ caught between updh and updm.

[notrightinthehead]

You wrote: ...." by admitting mom is pd, it somehow means exH is less culpable for his appalling behaviour."

I don't think so. He is just as culpable for his appaling behaviour! It just means that you were willing to tolerate his appaling behaviour because this is what your childhood trained you to do!

So many of us end up married to an abusive spouse, similar to the abusive parent. I did, for sure. Not because I wanted to re-create my childhood but because I was blind to certain red flags and willing to put up with atrocious behaviour. I had developed a high tolerance for it and I had no idea how 'real'  love feels like - after having beed told all my life that these crumbs I received were "love".

I am so proud of you that you have decided to break the cycle with your kids and to protect yourself from both abusers. Real healing will begin once you have decided that the most important person in your life is you. And that you deserve to have a good life, free from abuse.

[sunshine702]

Yeah I had a Narc boyfriend who left me out of the blue (devalue discard stage)
Upon that epic hurt .  I was away from everything in a new city and I had left my job and had to start anew.   My mom was bizarrely obsessed with who he moved on with - rubbing salt in my breakup wound for years.  Similar I blamed him and didn't think about her. 

I was griping about my mom on an Internet forum one day  and someone suggested she might be a Narc but to look it up it was not quite what I though.  Wow the shoe dropped yes absolutely - and that was Why M threw me away out of the blue and didn't seem to grieve.  It finally made sense.  That is why the triangulation and the never good enough from her.

The knowing is 50 percent of the battle.  Eyes opened right?!  Yes it hurts.  yes you grieve yes it is tough remaking your life but it get better now.  Your life will make sense now and be for you.   Sending prayers your way.

[Cat of the Canals]

Since your parental PD journey is just beginning, I'd strongly recommend a few books that helped me a lot: the first is Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents (Gibson) and Understanding the Borderline Mother (Lawson). I imagine that having the the behavior explained and the psychology behind it laid out can help you avoid repeating it as a parent. And I totally agree that being aware of it and not wanting to repeat it with your own kids is the biggest first step, and you've already done that. 

[Liketheducks]

Both of my parents likely have some kind of personality disorder - though neither would take the time to get a diagnosis.   My therapist clued me in on it.   Funnily enough, my mom also hates my H.     Did everything she could to break us up.    And, she HATES it when I keep my boundaries with her intact.     I found a lot of support here and with a group - ACA (Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families).    HUGE help to know I wasn't alone.   And, yes, I see PD's everywhere now.    Or certainly see dysfunction all around.   
Hang in there!

[hhaw]

BirdSinging:

You know you can choose yourself over your stbx AND your pd mum...right?

It will feel alien and wrong at first, but.... if yu keep practicing and extending self compassion and curiosity for your journey... while suspending judgement and expectation.....
you'll be modeling amazing things for  your children, IME.

One more thing.... it's likely you don't scream at and control your children like your mother did to you.

It's likely you're kind and gentle and have some work to do around putting healthy boundaries in place, enforcing them and putting yourself first, rather than worry9ing you're an N parent..... I just don't think you are, but it's good you're being mindful about your parenting and what you want to teach your children.

You can bet your mum never spent time worrying about her parenting.

In the meantime......
resting in mindful awareness.....
breathing and focusing on how stress feels in your body....
naming it..... breathing into it..... helps shift us out of survial mode and into integrated brain space so we have access to our logic, reason and creative problem solving skills.

You're the best resource you have and you need yourself whole and thinking clearly for what's to come, CBS.

[CagedBirdSinging]

Thanks everyone. The support on this forum is unbelievable- thanks to everyone who replied. I really appreciate your kind words.

My expdH was the first person who openly called out pdMs behaviour. He said she was controlling and manipulative. He fell out with her frequently and refused to let either of my parents in our home for many years. This caused me so much stress and heartache. ExpdH used to blame M for much of his behaviour- for example he would rage at me and then give me silent treatment, and then say it was because my mom had pissed him off somehow or other. He hated me hanging out with her and would always give me a hard time about it.

Now I'm starting to realise some of the stuff he said about her was right. She hated him too. She was one of the biggest advocates for me to leave him.  She used to criticise him constantly, criticised me for staying with him, dismissed my fears around leaving (I was afraid of sharing custody- and still am).

So basically they hated each other and both took it out on me. So I always felt I had to choose between them- either H was pd or M, surely not both.

I worry- what if expdH was right? What if pdM did cause the breakdown of our marriage? But then, some of his behaviour (fake illness, sexual coercion, bullying, dismissing, projecting, raging, ST, gas lighting) had nothing to do with my M. So I think the hard reality is that both exH and M are on the pd spectrum in different ways. Both have caused so much pain. But now as HHaw has said, I need to own my freedom and take back control of my life- for the sake of my kids.

[hhaw]

CBS:

You will be building a tapestry of experiences and familiarity with concepts INTO your childens' Nervous Systems through the life you live and the choices you make going from this day on, IME.

If you're building a life full of joy, fellowship and reciprocal connection..... your children will understand that option as familiar and as comfortable as living with troublesome PD individuals,which is what they understand as "normal" now, likely.

Look down the road and SEE what you want your children to see you doing in 5, 10, 25 years.  They want you to have a fulfilling  life with joy and self care...... people you build connection with...... outside activities and interests you find joyful outside of survival, placating Ns and just getting through the day... trust me on this.  You might not even know who you were born to be.....
yet.

  Once all the software your parents installed are identified.....once you see the  survival strategies built into your Nervous System to get you through childhood..... what's REALLY there, under society's SHOULDS and HAVE TOs are stipped away through mindful awareness.... who is CagedBirdSinging, once the cage is identified, opened and drops away?  Most of the time we're the very thing standing in our way...... bc we don't understand what's driving our choices.  We aren't yet aware of the unconscious belief systems that drive our choices,but that can change and it appears you've begun that journey, IMO.

So... go ahead, begin your healing journey for your children and not for yourself.  I know I did if for my children and to "just feel better."

It was enough, at first. A miracle,if I'm honest,but my T knew there was more and waited patiently for me to find it with her gentle guidance. 

Honestly, when my youngest dd was in first grade..... I asked her what she felt I'd be doing when she and her sister went off to college.  She said I'd be "covered in dog scratches and HAVE to adopt more children."

I've checked my co dependent behaviors.... I've started putting boundaries in place and enforcing them.... both my girls have responsed positively and in super healthy ways to that.  I have to tell you.... our children suffer when their parents are trapped in unhealthy habits they aren't even aware of.

Lately, I've been considering all the people in my life with the intention of limiting contact or "releasing them with love" if they're someone I can't figure out how to relate to without being harmed. 

I'd like to get along with my younger brother, who's now a 56yo man who's NEVER had a healthy relationship with ANY woman in his life.  How can I relate to him?  I know I must put boundaries in place and enforce them without hesitation or talking myself into giving myself away... going back to dissociating instead of owning  my feelings and honoring them.  It's new,but I get better at it with imperfect practice and that's a miracle in itself. 

I wonder where you are on your journey, Bird.  I have such hope for you and your children, whether your mother remains in your life or not...is kept at an emotionally safe distance, etc.

I see BirdSinging freed from the cage, completely aware of the causes and conditions limiting the choices you believe you have in your life, so you may discern what's YOU, what parts are survival strategies and what you'd like to keep or replace going forward.

Choice opens up once you gain perspective and SEE everything with spaciousness.... my Therapist alls it "getting your nose off the pebble."

When we're living in stress and coping daily with gaslighting...... the problems are ALL we see, generally.  Nose ON THE pebble is a very good way of explaining that,bc it's how it feels for ME. 

When I create spaciousness around the problem.... when I manage to rise above it,. and SEE the entire field... that pebble or problem becomes just another pebble in the field with all the trees, other pebbles, shrubs, flowers, rivers,lakes and blue blue sky.  I see solutions and creative problem solving strategies come back online.

I am the sky, BirdSinging.  All the problems and people creating trauma are just clouds and thunder storms and wind passing by.  If I build myself strong.... if I remember I'm always the blue blue sky, no matter what is passing through... I build new brain pathways for healtier coping and recovery from the COWs (crisis of the week)bc there will always be a COW.

How we choose to deal with them......
for instance... most of us on this board have had or still have a coping strategy of WORRY WORRY WORRY...always worrying about the COWs. It's exhausting and costs us dearly...all the time lost.  I try not to think about it.

The coping strategy I find more useful is to do evrything I possibly can to positively impact the crisis or pebble/problem then put it "on the shelf."  Just put it down, let it be and turn my attention to what's in front of me in the moment.

Really looking my children in the eye...being present with them, learning about their fears and interests..... what they want and where they'd like to go is amazing IF I can make that shift into the present and out of worrying about the future or ruminating about the past.