When did you realize you can't have a normal relationship with them? (TW)

[easterncappy]

TW sexual abuse.

Sorry for making two long posts in one day. I've just had a long day to think about these things and no one to really talk to about them. And I apologize in advance for complaining so much. I am going through a lot right now - about to have a baby, need to break contact before I have the baby, still feel obligated despite being married and moved out, etc.

Pretty much everything that was wrong growing up was chalked up to personal quirks, "he's just like that", and swept under the rug shortly after it happened. Things that I now know are heinously illegal were treated with "I talked to him about it and he said he won't do it again, okay?" (but it happened over and over again). If the behavior ever bothered my mother enough, she cried to me about it (parentification - I was about 8 when this began), but it was quickly forgotten after that... if I brought it up the next day, I was yelled at. I spent my entire childhood deeply uncomfortable, I didn't know why, I thought there was just something wrong with me. This discomfort didn't begin to go away until I was an adult and began spending considerable amounts of time away from them.

Anyway, I started reading different websites and forums for adult children of abusive parents when I was about 17 years old. I pieced stuff together very slowly. Before this, my mother was my "best friend in the whole world" (something I didn't realize I was uncomfortable with at the time - I genuinely could not pinpoint what discomfort felt like as a child because it was so constant), and in my mind, an innocent bystander in all of this. My father was the bad guy, and my mother and I were both victims... right? Because it was so much more obvious that what my father was doing was wrong. And I guess a part of me didn't want to accept that both of my parents wronged me.

I confronted my mother about it one day. I was confident that she would take my side, because she was my "best friend", and she always said she "loved" me and "would do anything for me". She opened up to me about so many of her problems, and now it was my turn. So obviously, she would do something to make this right. I told her about all of the abuse... and for a little while, she cried with me. She apologized for failing to give me a good childhood. I thought everything was going to be good from now on. I thought I could rely on my mom to protect me... to protect the little girl that got molested under her roof by her own husband, even if that little girl was older now. Surely, the only reason I wasn't protected is because she didn't know...

WRONG.

The next day, I tried to talk to her about it some more. I was immediately met with some of the ugliest things I've ever heard her say in my entire life. She was vicious. She was so angry with me. "Oh, boo hoo, but he never raped you", "so he's not good enough for you, huh? But his money is? You're so spoiled, you're just upset that you didn't get nicer things for holidays!", "and what were YOU doing to find YOURSELF in that situation?" (context: I was talking about sexual abuse that began when I was a toddler), "what do you want me to do, work full time and go on welfare so I can leave him, and then you'd never get nice gifts again?" (ouch - her own minor daughter wasn't important enough to hold a job for? iPhones somehow made up for sexual abuse? What?), and many more ugly things that broke my heart. I didn't even know what to say, I just ran away from her and cried. I knew things would never be the same again after this.

8 years later, I genuinely think the only thing that could break my heart more is the death of a loved one. I cried for days. I have never felt betrayal like this in my entire life. That's my mother - I feel like what she said that day stings more with time. She has asked me many times since then "what happened to our relationship? We used to be so close... you were my best friend... I hope we can go back to that...". I decided to just never bring it up again. My perspective shifted from "my innocent emotionally abused mother" to "she's just as bad as him because she knew all along and did nothing - my safety was less important than her material wants". If I bring it up again, she will not change, and will probably just say more horrible things to me. I hate seeing her closet full of expensive leather jackets and fancy things that she bought because my father made a lot of money - the price of those was literally my well-being, she told me as much that day, she couldn't afford nice things if she had to be single and work.

I keep repeating to myself: "If they wanted to be involved in my adult life, they wouldn't have treated me so poorly as a minor". I feel so guilty constantly. I'm scared of what they'll do. I'm even more scared of them ever being near my daughter. I know we're supposed to work through this, but it's so hard. There's something so perverse about a parent failing their child in this way, something that's so hard to shake - like, that is your one job when you have a baby. And the worst thing is, they'll never admit that any of this happened the way you say it did or that it matters...

[Boat Babe]

Easterncappy: this is beyond shitty and I am so sorry this happened to you. Your mother's betrayal is s bad as your father's overt abuse. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

In my opinion, you owe your parents nothing. Nada. Zilch. You do owe yourself, and your child, the best possible life and I hope you can get the support to put need and deserve to work through the abuse and trauma you have suffered in order to heal and move forward. Sending HUGE hugs.

[sunshine702]

Wow I am so sorry that happened to you. Sick abuse and then the Enabling by doing nothing.  For sexual assault that is a real knife twist.

That is evil toxic.  However you can get away...  Physical, Emotional Very Low Contact and Grey Rock.   You are a survivor and tough!

[NarcKiddo]

What a ghastly story. The behaviour of both parents is unforgivable in my book. And even if you can find it in your heart to forgive, they sound too dangerous to ever be around and your plan to go NC sounds wise.

My uNPD mother was the main problem in my life. Abuse was mainly psychological even as a young child and totally psychological from age 9 or so onwards.

Like you, my mother was my "best friend" when I was a teen but I still felt the need to escape her direct control as soon as I could so I left home and married.

From about age 30 I began to twig something was seriously off because I considered having children and realised I was a) scared I might end up behaving like her and b) did not know how I would be able to limit her access to any children. So I didn't have children.

In my early 40s I came across info about narcissists and lightbulbs lit all over the place. I did my research and some therapy and started withdrawing. I was not prepared to go NC. 10 years later I am still not willing to go NC but I would be prepared to if she seriously overstepped the mark. She has so far been smart enough not to and is trying to suck me back in. But I have recently gone back to doing some therapy as I feel I need help processing some other stuff, and remaining strong in my commitment to grey rock or medium chill.

I've just read "My Mother the Psychopath" by Olivia Rayne. The parallels between her life and mine are quite jaw-dropping in some ways. That said, her mother was so bad that she twigged there was a problem from quite a young age - she just didn't know how to deal with it. But the result was that she escaped and went NC fairly early.

[Leonor]

Hello Easterncappy,

Sending you soon many  , if ok.

Your story is my story, Eastern dear. You're not alone.

It's ok. You're not crazy, awful, flawed, ungrateful, neurotic, needy, damaged, none of those things.

You were always a precious little girl, and now you're a lovely mama.

The anguish and pain you're feeling now is agonizing and painful and ... ultimately healing.

For that little girl, and this lovely mama, and the miraculous little baby, consider finding a good trauma therapist, for all of you.

There are groups for survivors of sexual abuse that can be quiet, kind spaces to sit in sisterhood.

And post here if it helps, and know that healing human beings from all over the world are here to listen.

You deserve all the love and gentleness and kindness and safety in the world.

[donutmoonpanda]

I'm very sorry, easterncappy. Your nightmare sounds so much like my own. I also spent most of my life thinking I had one good parent, that she was the safe one, and that she was a victim too.

TW: Sexual abuse & domestic violence

I was sexually abused by my father. It began when I was about 3. I told my mother about it and she didn't help me. My father overheard me telling on him, flew into a rage, came into the room and beat me. She just sat there. Said nothing. It is one of my earliest memories. He got into my bed every night for years. She knew about it. When he did inappropriate things in front of her, she'd look at me and roll her eyes because she believed I liked the attention. She was jealous that I was being sexually abused.

I stopped speaking to my father first, a long time ago. For as long as I can remember I knew that I'd never be happy if he was a part of my life. But it took much longer for me to see that Mom's not a co-victim. She's a co-abuser.

Being around a lot of children (all my friends have children now) made it really obvious that she was (1) a miserable excuse for a mother and (2) was leeching off me (emotionally and financially). There was no grey area anymore. I had two bad parents. Gosh, just seeing her around kids now, watching her ignore them and be withholding of her attention no matter what they did, and remembering how she'd just ignore me all the time. How if I wanted affection I had to crawl into her lap while she was busy doing something else, watching soaps, doing cross stitch. How she never praises me for any reason whatsoever -- ever in my entire life. How she seems embarrassed by my accomplishments as if I shouldn't dare to do anything at all.

There was always something about our relationship. Something rotten. Whenever I was around her I felt like garbage or I felt crazy. No one else ever made me feel like that. When I was around her, I felt like the least important person in the world. I just couldn't let that feeling gnaw at me anymore.

The only time I spoke about the csa with her, she told me that my dad probably didn't even know what he was doing was sexually abusive. I said, "Mom, why did he hide it then? If it wasn't wrong, why was it a secret? You think he was telling friends and family that he slept in my bed at night?" She just waved it off, changed the subject. She's the queen of denial.

When I decided on NC, instead of telling her anything, I just stopped speaking to her. It's because I'm sure she would have given me a similar response. Blame, shame, scapegoating, gaslighting, distortions. Telling me I liked it. I didn't want to hear any of that. But a part of me wishes I had let her say some nasty things to me. Maybe then it would be easier to stay NC, to not feel sorry for her as she gets up in age, or to not feel like I left some things unsaid.

The guilt and obligation are with me all the time. I push them away every day. But there's an unloved and neglected inner child that is thankful that she's no longer a part of my life. I'm flourishing.

I'm childfree, but I have tons of kids in my chosen family. Every time I'm around them is an eye opener. It shows me just how absolutely bonkers my childhood was and how easy it should have been for my mom to distinguish right and wrong. Doing right by me should have been as natural and instinctual to her as breathing air. The fact that it wasn't means that she's not someone I need in my life. She doesn't deserve me or my chosen family.

I'm wishing you peace and patience.

[bee well]

Eastern Cappy,

I am so so sorry about what happened to you. You didn't deserve that, and you don't have to apologize.

I believe you.

I'm middle aged and my parents are gone. In no contact with the rest of my FOO (I thought they would substitute my "nuclear" family, no dice, that's another story) I am now remembering more and coming to terms with the magnitude of what happened. There are a few people on one side who I still feel an obligation to, guilt because they don't understand or know. The truth is they knew enough, and looked the other way. I'm doing my best now to break that down.

My Mother was also horrifically abused as a child, when she was pregnant, when she was a baby. She was mentally ill and she was my Mother.
Her Mother was abused and so was her Mother.  And there's no excuse for the abuse. Not for my Mother, your Mother, or anyone elses Mother, Father. or anyone else in their family....

We all have variations in our story, but the betrayal, and the false guilt is one of the hardest things to process. It's scary to think about. At times it feels shameful.

You may feel like you owe it to people that they understand you, that you have to be perfect but you don't. You are a good enough human being. And like Boat Babe wrote, you don't owe them anything. There are a lot of messed up people in the World who will never understand us. That's okay.

I have never had a baby (no mystery why that is) so I don't know what you are feeling, but I have always wondered how my Mother could put me through what she did, know what others did to me, and did nothing to stop it! Even put me into the hands of abusers.

There's nothing wrong with us if we still feel love for them at times. It means we are capable of feeling love. But we have no obligation of putting ourselves (or our children if we have any) in danger to prove that.

Looking back I can see that, aside from the gift of life one of the best things my Mother gave me was when she said "Don't do what I did."

I just wanted to say to you that through feeling the pain and reasoning about it the way you are I think you have a great gift that you can offer your unborn child.

A gift of knowledge and insight, knowing you have choices. And love!

You know don't have to do what she did, and you are already doing better. Breaking the cycle.

I don't know you but I feel proud of you.

Please continue posting, and reaching out. For information, help, safe enough allies, therapy. Whatever resources are available to you and your baby.

And congratulations! Sending love and big hugs to you and your baby!

[nanotech]

I'm sending hugs too. I can't begin to know what you've been though. Just to say 'I hear you and I care deeply'.
Hugs to all on here. Amazing respect to you too. Xx