When the teen becomes an adult - NC with grandparents

[Sidney37]

Hi Out of the FOG friends.  I'm managing so well lately, I've just been lurking and not posting. 

So we've been NC with my parents for several years.  Therapists recommended that we block my PD parents from my kids' devices when this all happened.  PDm was texting guilt trippy things to my then young teen daughter and making her cry.  She is my oldest and was the GC.  She was getting better gifts, more attention, negative comments about her younger brother and our parenting when we went NC.  But she remembers being extra special and the center of attention. 

She is also the  only child they keep trying to contact.  They have made no effort to try to contact my son.  My son is also the child of my husband and myself, no second parent issue, not adopted.  Nothing different.  I know those things cause issues for PD parents sometimes.     My mom made it clear that because she had only one child, me, a daughter, that she only likes girl children and none should have more than one baby.  You know the PD belief that only their decisions are right?  Well for her, only having one girl baby is right and she's made it clear to me and my oldest since I was pregnant with my son. 

She will be off to college soon.  After reading Starboard's advice and talking to therapists, we told her that she could choose or choose not to have contact with her grandparents starting this summer, so we and her therapist can help her navigate it.  Otherwise, she'd be dealing with this when she turned 18 and started college - on her own.

Well, I'm concerned that it has backfired.  She seems to have decided that she can start back into a relationship with them so she can complain about any grievance she has with me and my rules.  And our house rules are very mild - tell us before you leave the house, homework done before hanging with friends, come home at the agreed upon (pretty late) curfew.  Communication is key.  Just tell us where you are.  She thinks she can go back to bring the center of attention and get on their good side by complaining about us. 

So... how do you navigate this?  We said that her relationship with them should be about her, her activities, her school, not about complaining about her brother, her dad and me.  Well, she's all ready to make contact to throw us under the bus and no doubt, they will love it and shower her with attention.  This seems like a nightmare for my cptsd!

[moglow]

This may be a situation where DD needs to be careful what she asks for - all of that can easily backfire on her and she has no clue what they're capable of. Sometimes we need to learn by doing, and if that's what she chooses ...

She wants to complain and talk behind your back? Fine, do that. She's not doing herself or anyone else any favors, and it won't change your relationship with the grands one iota. It WILL change your relationship with her if she doesn't decide to treat people any better than that demonstrated by the grands. If nothing else she may need a reminder of the golden rule and what goes around comes around. You chose NC with them for a reason and that hasn't changed. What she's not seeing is that what they did to and how they treated you can just as easily become *her* reality with them. If they don't have other convenient targets, they might decide she's the one. May the odds be in her favor, whatever that may be.

BUT DD's underage and she still lives in your home - that comes with obligations on her part. She still has to abide by house rules without exception unless/until YOU provide said exceptions, same as before. DD still has homework and chores for which she is responsible, still owes everyone in the house respect and consideration, and you're still not her maid cook and housekeeper. She isn't allowed to disrespect you and your home just because she's in contact with the grands. Those privileges she's earned can still be taken away. She gets mad, she just gets mad. What mom giveth, mom can taketh away - and mom can blocketh that phone again if she chooses!

Part of this is about responsibilities and being accountable for herself and her treatment of others. I hope she'll choose to take a higher path. Once the new wears off this relationship, she may see a lot more than she bargained for.

[Starboard Song]

She will be off to college soon.  After reading Starboard's advice and talking to therapists, we told her that she could choose or choose not to have contact with her grandparents starting this summer, so we and her therapist can help her navigate it.  Otherwise, she'd be dealing with this when she turned 18 and started college - on her own.

Well, I'm concerned that it has backfired.  She seems to have decided that she can start back into a relationship with them so she can complain about any grievance she has with me and my rules.  And our house rules are very mild - tell us before you leave the house, homework done before hanging with friends, come home at the agreed upon (pretty late) curfew.  Communication is key.  Just tell us where you are.  She thinks she can go back to bring the center of attention and get on their good side by complaining about us. 

So... how do you navigate this?  We said that her relationship with them should be about her, her activities, her school, not about complaining about her brother, her dad and me.  Well, she's all ready to make contact to throw us under the bus and no doubt, they will love it and shower her with attention.  This seems like a nightmare for my cptsd!

Well crap.

I am so sorry. We just this week are talking with our son, now a rising sophomore in college. He still has no interest in contacting them, but admits to having a lingering sense of loss.

I understand how this is triggering. If your daughter is not herself being PD-ish, just being rebelious teenish, I encourage you to try very hard to treat this no different than if she were motivated not by the grandparents, but by, say, some bad friends. The issue is that she needs to (1) abide by your rules with integrity, and (2) not be disrespectful.

She can sneak out her little snide comments and complaints, because heck, being a teen is hard. But she can't yell and scream or call names, and has to in fact follow your easy rules. In a normal situation without this backstory, that would probably mean you using deescalation tactics, engaging with her on what reasonable adjustments she'd make. You'd hear her out. Maybe toss her a few peanuts by adjusting some rules. You'd ask her to agree that some curfew is reasonable, and that open communications are good. And all that kind of rubbish.

I'm curious as to what the therapists and other Out of the FOG members say, but I think it is important not to let the backstory drive this situation. Don't let it trigger you into escalations.

I am very sorry, and wish you so much good strength.

[Cat of the Canals]

This is tough. There's so much baggage there that it's going to feel like a betrayal no matter what, but maybe it would help to think of it the same way you would if she were complaining to her friends vs your parents (which she probably does, because what teen doesn't?).

Is she giving them potential ammo for further smearing? Probably. But PDs are plenty good at inventing things to smear you with anyway. And this is about HER behavior, not theirs. Teens are gonna teen. 

[Starboard Song]

Teens are gonna teen. 

Wow. So true.

And while this is certainly more complicated than that, it may still be the right way to look at it.

[moglow]

maybe it would help to think of it the same way you would if she were complaining to her friends vs your parents (which she probably does, because what teen doesn't?).

Is she giving them potential ammo for further smearing? Probably. But PDs are plenty good at inventing things to smear you with anyway. And this is about HER behavior, not theirs. Teens are gonna teen.  (https://outofthefog.net/forum/Smileys/default/sad.gif)

Truth! What she says to others isn't your stuff to carry. I may dislike it, but unless/ until it's said to me it's not mine. It's all more he said/she said between them and they can keep it. It's not yours unless they make it so, ya know?

... And PDs are gonna PD. Just be aware who they are and how they've treated you, keep doing what you know to be best.

[Jolie40]

She thinks she can go back to bring the center of attention and get on their good side by complaining about us. 

our young teen had been face timing with MIL weekly
one day overheard teen complaining to MIL about my rules re covid
this was accidental as I was going to basement to see if they were almost done talking

overheard MIL saying that "I was sick" and other harsh comments about me!
I was surprised as always thought MIL liked me
maybe she was just siding with teen against me?

never told teen I overheard that but I suggested husband listen & join in conversations next time teen spoke with his mom.....I didn't want MIL bad mouthing me anymore

[Leonor]

Hello Sidney,

Teens and parents and PDs, oh my!

Here's the thing: when our children are still children, we are responsible for protecting them from unsafe situations. We are responsible for giving them the information they need to navigate relationships in age-appropriate ways. We are responsible for supporting them as they wobble out into the world.

But your daughter is grown up. She's going to college soon. She's been given information and support about your parents from you and therapists, and she has chosen to communicate with them, and she received your blessing to do so.

So...that's it. You can't control what she says or how they respond.  You COULD, I suppose, try to control their conversation. Listening in. Telling her what to say and what not to say. Being upset when something is said that you don't like. But now you're not being open or informative or supportive or protective. You're using your daughter in a proxy war with your parents.

Your oldest daughter has the right to establish relationships with whomever she pleases. And those relationships are none of your business, unless she has expressly invited you to talk about them.

She may come to the realization that her grandparents are disturbed or hurtful or unpleasant. Or she may find them to be sympathetic and caring and kind to her all the days of her life. She may come to have greater awareness about your experience with them, or she may resent you for keeping her away from them all these years.

All you can do is listen to what she wants to share with you and nod and say, "Hmm" or "That's nice" or "That's too bad." "I'm glad you had a nice talk." "Oh, well, maybe Granny was just cranky today." "Well, I understand you/she/they may feel that way about me, but that's okay." Period.

Believe me, I get it. Forever and ever, my 🦇 crazy ILs will be the dearest nonno and nonna for my children, and when I saw my oldest son feeling torn between his loyalty to me and his love for his grandparents, I had to swallow all my hurt and pride and anger to say, "My relationship with the nonnis is different from yours. Of course you can love them with all your heart, and have little (short, supervised, outdoor, occasional!) visits, and I think that's wonderful!" And when they act up or disappear, it's strictly, "Oh, I'm sorry that didn't go as planned . Nonna must not be feeling her old self today. Maybe another time." Cue Academy Award for old Leonor.

They are also insatiably curious about my mom, who disowned me, and we've kind of turned her into a bit of an Auntie Mame character. As they get older, we give them a bit more info, and accept that one day they may reach out to her and be showered with false affection and strings-attached presents and horrible stories about their damaged, lost mom.

Sidney, you are absolutely right when you say that your cptsd is triggered. None of this outweighs, cancels out or in any way invalidates or dismisses your pain. It's excruciating. Confide, rage, and weep to your friend, your therapists, your spouse, your friends, and all of us here at the OOFer community, who will embrace you with empathy and been-there-ness. You've done a wonderful job in parenting to break the cycle and raise your children with live and guidance and safety. Your dear daughter will be fine, and no one can ever replace her dear mama.

She's not clueless, she's fearless. She's not misguided, she's self-assured
Because she was raised by her beautiful loving mamma, she feels safe in this world, and that's thanks to you!

[daughter]

Dont expect prudent responses from your parents when/if your daughter resumes contact with them.  My parents continually express their malevolence towards me to our young adult son, and yes, that causes conflicts between our son and us. They are "nice" to him, and always play "victim" as they maliciously badmouth me, their SG former "dutiful daughter". I've zero regrets about NC, and their post-NC bad behavior wrecked any possible reconciliation ever.  Nonetheless, I feel very sad about the emotional hurt my parents inflicted upon our son, their hapless pawn, in their many attempts to viciously attack me via him as "proxy-messenger".  Be aware that this contemplated resumed contact likely will cause new friction at home for you too.

Our parents don't realize, or don't sincerely care, that their vindictiveness and need to "play victim" here causes real harm to the grandchildren they supposedly love.

[Sidney37]

Thanks everyone!  I took a break from reading here and responding while I tried to think, reflect, breathe and tame my cptsd over all of this.  I came back today and read more of your responses. Thank you!  Truly, thank you.  It's been a very stressful few weeks.

Unfortunately we do see some serious PD red flags in my daughter.  Is it a PD?  Is it fleas from her grandmother?  We don't know.  We do know that my PDm instilled in her that only she loves her and we don't.  Years after last communicating my daughter still believes that only her grandmother loves her and no other adults do.  This, I guess, is the consequence of being the golden child while my DH, DS and I were the scapegoats.  Apparently there are many conversations with her about how perfect she was and how awful the rest of us were.  So I'm regretting the years of not going NC before I actually did.

Her therapist tried to explain to her with me in the room that the things her parents do are because we love her and that her grandparents do things because they are manipulative and need her to provide attention (narcissistic supply) to them.  I don't think she believed it. 

So here I am enduring yet another casualty of a PD parent causing pain to me years after the NC.  The therapist told her to block them.  We'll see if she actually does. 

Right now it's deep breaths, self care, venting to all of you and my best friend who gets it.  Thank you!

[Starboard Song]

I'm regretting the years of not going NC before I actually did.

Her therapist tried to explain to her with me in the room that the things her parents do are because we love her and that her grandparents do things because they are manipulative and need her to provide attention (narcissistic supply) to them.  I don't think she believed it. 

So here I am enduring yet another casualty of a PD parent causing pain to me years after the NC.  The therapist told her to block them.  We'll see if she actually does. 

I am so glad you have that best friend who gets it: we all need that friend, and many of us do without.

We've talke about the early signs, and how we wish we'd understood boundaries and such 15 years earlier. Our first crisis was when our son was only 3. Maybe a firm stand at that time would've changed the course of the relationship for the better. Maybe it would have led to early NC. We can never know: but every year we are empowered by the concepts that fill our whattodolinks page is a year we are stronger and more fulfilled in all of our relationships.

I am glad your therapist is the sort to righteously take sides and give direct advice. Too many just want to talk and de-escalate.

Kudos to you for taking a break: it can get to be a dark world if you read about problems all the time. So much good strength and peace to you.

And remember: your daughter was going to be independent and able to resume access soon. Being open to that a tad earlier is kindness and openness. While it brought noise into your home, it likely didn't change the long-term trajectory of this situation. I do regret that feeling that it all backfired on you.

Be good. Be strong.