Eyes Wide Open

[Kat54]

I'm trying online dating. It's been a real interesting last couple of months. Many personalities, different, smart, way to old, a bit sheltered, PHD, High School, trade worker, happy, serious, liars.
It's made me think about what to make of these people and healthy relationships.
It's definitely something to not rush into because you are putting yourself out there to compete strangers. I've been seeing a gentleman for about a month and the transition of him from my first impression of him. I felt a little smitten at first and he of course on his best behavior as I was also.
Slowly he has revealed himself, his flaws, his fears, his loss, his thoughts on his future, he feels uncertain. And I've told him mine as I've said I'm an open book. I did reveal my marriage was emotionally and verbally abusive.
I still like him and enjoy his company, so I 'm wondering how much I should invest with him but few uncertain.  I'm trying very hard to keep on alert, eyes open and look for major red flags.

But, then another gentleman has entered the picture of online dating. He's charming, already telling me how pretty I am, very gregarious and fairly confident. Completely different from the other person. It's actually making me slightly wary accepting all the compliments. First date and he wants to do house projects for me. These may be red flags but will maybe know more after a second date coming up.

Has anyone experienced online dating. I'm not even sure I'm completely ready to have someone enter my life. My time alone has been good for me and made me at peace, independent and more centered. Though I'm going back to therapy to keep my head on with all of this.

[JustKeepTrying]

Kat54,

Yup, I started online dating earlier this year as suggested by my therapist.  Her view was you don't know what you want until you start shopping.  And I didn't. I was so stripped bare after the divorce I really didn't have a type or really anything.

So I did go on a few dates but before I really read up on red flags.  Even wrote them out and put them on a card in my purse.  Kept them fore front in my mind.  I asked my T is this was weird and she thought it was smart.  She also talked about something called Coping Ahead.  Google it and may help with anxiety in certain situations.  It comes out of DBT therapy and there are some valuable tools there in the exercise.  Just don't get lost in it - she suggested to put a time limit on it and if you don't resolve go back the following day.

I used this recently on a date with a guy that I was really getting into.  Then I spotted a big red flag.  like BIG.  I would have excused in my past life - made up a reason and plowed through it.  But I called him on it and broke it off.  That is another suggestion from T - in addition to regular dating flags that you can glean from a basic google search - know what your flags are and set those firm boundaries.  As soon as I broke it off he went ballistic and it turned nasty  To the point I was afraid for my safety.  All is good but the bottom line, you will know.  Just lean into yourself and trust your instincts.

The good thing about all of this - my T was right.  I now know what I want.  And right now, that's no one.  I really like the peace and quiet of being on my own.  Plus, I got some work to do on myself. 

Just listen to your instincts.  They are always right.

[JustKeepTrying]

Wow!  I've seen that video before but today it really made sense.  Thanks for sharing!

[Lookin 2 B Free]

Good luck to all who are dipping a toe in the water.  I heard a piece of dating advice long, long ago which I have never forgotten.  Had I followed it, I think it would have saved me from having a relationship with a pwPD.  It was "Slow is real."

In my experience, pwPDs start off in the "idealization" phase which I've found includes love bombing and rushing to get more intimate and committed quickly.  Like they're so taken with you, they just can't hold off.  This has been a repeated pattern in my life.   Had I put up a good boundary and refused to let the PDx coax me into going a little faster than I knew was prudent, I think the "spell" would have been broken and we both would have realized the other person was not what we wanted.

I wonder, if I ever date again, if I will finally follow that advice.   

Free

[JustKeepTrying]

That is solid advice Free.  In fact I wrote it on my bathroom mirror.

I just ended a relationship - if you can call it that - four dates.  But he was pushing to move it faster, and really pushing against my boundaries - not love bombing but idealization is a good description.  I know that my ex pushed for intimacy quickly.

I think if I too had held firm to my boundaries, I would not have married him. 

Slow is real.  Thank you

[Lookin 2 B Free]

I hope all of us who want to will, in time, find a healthy, happy relationship that enhances our lives ...  even those of us who feel it could never happen.  This reminds me that many years ago I made an amend to myself by promising I would not tell myself that it is impossible for me - that I'm too damaged  (or now, in my 60's, too old).  Undreamed of things happen to people every day.  So I can be open to that, as long as I take proper care of myself and don't slip into unawareness and denial.  (I don't want to be bait for another PD.)

JKT, I'm so glad you got out when you did, before things might have gotten even more unsafe.  Whew!

I've always had an unfortunately high tolerance for boundary crashers, particularly the ones that use charm and turn the heat up slowly. They start with "I'm so smitten with you; can't we make an exception and step up the pace?" which seems innocuous and even fun & exciting.   But eventually they hook into my feelings of obligation (fOg), I think, at least partly, because they communicate that they do believe I'm obligated and it's unreasonable for me not to fulfill that "obligation."   I'm still somewhat susceptible to the "You are so unreasonable!" gaslight technique.   But if I just held fast to my boundaries in the first place, I believe any PD would move on.

"Eyes wide open" is a good path to follow.  And having people to do a reality check with here is great.            <3 <3 <3  Free

[Kat54]

Thanks for all the advice and the videos. I'm actually finding I'm not used to taking a relationship slow. My ex was fast, charming and swept me off my feet but all the while also gas lighting me, and in reality not good to me at all. I was starved for the attention no matter what kind.

This has been quite different. Though he likes me a lot, He has expressed some pretty clear boundaries and wants to take things slow. This is better for me but it does give me anxiety that ok, I'm not going to hear from him anymore and thinking all this stupid stuff in my head. It's my dysfunctional relationship ideals

But it's ok, I'm trying not to get myself too attached and wanting to spend every moment with him, instead living my life solo, but he's someone who's good company to do things with when we get together.
I'm wondering is this how a relationship should progress.  Every relationship is different but I'm feeling like a fish out of water.

[Boat Babe]

Thanks for all the advice and the videos. I'm actually finding I'm not used to taking a relationship slow. My ex was fast, charming and swept me off my feet but all the while also gas lighting me, and in reality not good to me at all. I was starved for the attention no matter what kind.

This has been quite different. Though he likes me a lot, He has expressed some pretty clear boundaries and wants to take things slow. This is better for me but it does give me anxiety that ok, I'm not going to hear from him anymore and thinking all this stupid stuff in my head. It's my dysfunctional relationship ideals

But it's ok, I'm trying not to get myself too attached and wanting to spend every moment with him, instead living my life solo, but he's someone who's good company to do things with when we get together.
I'm wondering is this how a relationship should progress.  Every relationship is different but I'm feeling like a fish out of water.

I hear you. Very much so.  Our childhood traumas make us so prone to limerance. I fall in love at the drop of a hat and it doesn't do me any favours. I think that having a great life outside of a romantic relationship is key. That way, you have so much interest/fun/purpose/other connections etc that time away from the romantic relationship is really valuable. If there's not much happening in my life, of course I'm going to spend all my time with someone who makes me feel good. Got to get those feels from other things.

[JustKeepTrying]

Boat Babe - that is good advice and exactly what my T told me as well.

Kat54 - I understand how you feel.  I agree that slow is real and all the videos, books and research shows that chemistry were off in one to two years so don't make big decisions until then but I am just not used to going slow.  So I have been filling my life with distractions - camping, plays and out with other friends so I don't get all up in my head.

But boy do I want those sweaty sheets and heady feelings - not realistic but the hallmark makes it look good.

[Lookin 2 B Free]

Me too.  Fast and intense feels like made-for-each-other love to me.  Slow and measured feels like apathy - nothing's going on here, we're just wasting each others' time.  Good for you Kat for hanging in there with the slow.  I'm sure I'd be uncomfortable, too.  My hat's off to you!

I have a problem feeling "wantable" with my history.  I've heard it said that people who don't believe someone would want them will partner with someone who needs them.  I've often wondered if that's why I've ended up with the ones who rush in.  Maybe some part of me has always recognized they do that out of need.  

People who feel whole and valued don't have to do that.  They can afford to take their time.  Maybe someday I'll be one of those. 

[JustKeepTrying]

I had a long discussion with my T today about this thread and the date I went on with chemistry and the displays of tenderness.

Her reply and explanation - coupled with the videos posted here - wow.

She said extreme feeling of chemistry is your lizard brain way of screaming "run".  General good feeling and maybe warm thoughts in the nether regions - that's OK.  I feel like the romance genre has really messed with our minds - I grew up equaling chemistry with soul mate.

Also, when I described the actions on this date - she said it was classic player moves by either woman or man - to manipulate the chemistry, push boundaries, and trauma bond with the targeted partner.  Woh.

So here is what he did - Sitting at a table having. a beer and to make a point he tapped my hand.  Just a gentle tap.  No big deal right?  Actually he was testing the boundary for physical connection.  He did a few more times and then on a joke with both of us laughing, he reached for my hand and tucked it into his arm caressing my hand at the same time - very smoothly.  Another test of boundaries.  He then drops all touching and for quite a bit does not come near me and then there is another joke followed quickly by a compliment, intense eye gaze, hair tuck, cheek caress and request to kiss me.  Do you see the push/pull?  The subtle test of boundaries and then the pseudo consensual request.  How do you break away with your hand in his; his hand on your cheek and that intense gaze?

Well, lesson learned on my part and I thought I would share it with you.  My T said its a common start among narcs and how they weed out people from the beginning.  She has heard this over and over again from women and men who are trying to overcome trauma and a narc relationship. 

Mind blown open today.

[Boat Babe]

I had a long discussion with my T today about this thread and the date I went on with chemistry and the displays of tenderness.

Her reply and explanation - coupled with the videos posted here - wow.

She said extreme feeling of chemistry is your lizard brain way of screaming "run".  General good feeling and maybe warm thoughts in the nether regions - that's OK.  I feel like the romance genre has really messed with our minds - I grew up equaling chemistry with soul mate.

Also, when I described the actions on this date - she said it was classic player moves by either woman or man - to manipulate the chemistry, push boundaries, and trauma bond with the targeted partner.  Woh.

So here is what he did - Sitting at a table having. a beer and to make a point he tapped my hand.  Just a gentle tap.  No big deal right?  Actually he was testing the boundary for physical connection.  He did a few more times and then on a joke with both of us laughing, he reached for my hand and tucked it into his arm caressing my hand at the same time - very smoothly.  Another test of boundaries.  He then drops all touching and for quite a bit does not come near me and then there is another joke followed quickly by a compliment, intense eye gaze, hair tuck, cheek caress and request to kiss me.  Do you see the push/pull?  The subtle test of boundaries and then the pseudo consensual request.  How do you break away with your hand in his; his hand on your cheek and that intense gaze?

Well, lesson learned on my part and I thought I would share it with you.  My T said its a common start among narcs and how they weed out people from the beginning.  She has heard this over and over again from women and men who are trying to overcome trauma and a narc relationship. 

Mind blown open today.

Omg, I had someone do this to me this Summer. I was talking to a couple of guys at a festival and one of them very quickly tucked my hand into theirs. I immediately pulled away cos it was unasked for and very boundary busting. For sure he was testing the waters. Gargh! 

[JustKeepTrying]

Boat Babe -

another session with T today - and again another connection was made from childhood to today - and relevant to dating again.

As a kid I was encouraged to kiss and hug relatives/family friends - whether I wanted to or not - I have vivid memories of being made to stand and undergo very uncomfortable situations where the individual was older and there would be discussion of hugging/cheek kissing/or just general weirdness that you can imagine in the 70s as a little girl.  All PG but still that feeling that I have to step forward and hug hello/goodbye or whatever social construct befits the situation. 

And that led to teenage dating with arm holding and hugging and not feeling like you could pull away.

Fast forward to today - struggle with body autonomy.  I struggle w/cluing into my own discomfort and just ignoring it to hug a perfect stranger hello?  And then you get a person who continually tests your boundaries?  Saying no is hard.  Reacting in the moment is hard.

So knowing this now - I hope it will help in the future when I meet a man off an app and I will try to quash those chlldhood feelings and say no.  And pull away.

[notrightinthehead]

I can so relate to this last post. I have felt so uncomfortable and clumsy with the kissing as a greeting and am so grateful that Covid has stopped that for me.
I admire you all for taking steps into the dating world. Very courageous!