Did he really see me?

[arcticfox]

I've been reading all the posta here for hours and hours, fascinated and sad by all the eerie similarities in how pwPD:s act. My mind keeps firing these constant "wait this is exactly what he said/acted" and it gives me so much validation.

But there's one thing I dont really recognise: a lot of people here, and also the psychological sources, describe mirroring and a feeling of "not knowing who they are" for the PD:s, and also being so self-centered that they don't really see others or understand why and how other people have emotions.

With my partner, when we started dating he carefully listened to me and paid attention to how I acted in everyday life. And as a result, he gently suggested I might have ADHD (or ADD actually, I dont think I've been hyperactive in my life). He himself had been diagnosed as an adult around forty, recently before we met , and told me he could recognise a lot of the things he struggled with in me as well. He was very capable of reading subtle clues in how I acted and reacted to things that I did not even see myself. And he was very kind and emphatic in his approach, and very understanding and calm when I had some strong emotions towards him around these conversations. I originally waa very angry and hurt because I felt he was suggesting there was something somehow wrong with me, and I didn't fit my own outdated idea of what ADHD looks like since on the surface I'm quite "successful" (Like I have several university degrees and work in a very complicated and demanding area of expertise, haven't messed up my finances or behave reclessly etc)

It turned out he was right. 6 months later after long and detailed process with a psychiatrist I got a diagnosis, went to therapy to help me cope and my everyday life, work life, relationships with friends and family and mental health have all changed  for the better in amazing ways  because of that. Because he saw my inner world in a way nobody had ever seen before and really understood me when I myself didn't even understand me. And to do that he really must be able to analyse and understand himseld well. And in order to do that he must therefore have a sense of self in general.

I keep thinking that yes, this sounds like the early relationship honeymoon phrase and love bombing, but something that deep would be incredibly hard to fake. I mean he didn't  mirror me to try to change himself to march what he thought I would want in a partner, but quite the opposite: he recognised something in me that he already had in him. Also seems like an awful lot of trouble to go through if he would've been just playing nice for the sake of getting me to fall in love.

Later on he basicallly stopped seeing me as a person anymore. He started to treat me like a teddy bear, or mum, or a blank slate, assigning me whatever role he needed me to be at that moment until it got obvious and unbeareable for me.

But I can't wrap my head around the original feeling of being truly seen by him and keep getting stuck on it and I dont know how to move forward

[square]

It's possible he really saw you.

Some PDs have no idea who they are. Some do.

Some PDs have zero concept that other beings exist. Some do.

Some PDs have absolutely no insight to their behaviors, thoughts, and feelings. Some have a very good grasp on it.

[SonofThunder]

Hello ArticFox,

I believe you answered your own question. I believe PD's are VERY high radar, and they need to be to stay one step ahead in order to control, build a facade, and have us carry their emotions as well as our own.  Therefore, an effective radar needs to be (educated) aware of what it is recognizing so it may alert the PD, so they may effectively control, staying one-step ahead using their predatory traits. 

You wrote:

"He himself had been diagnosed as an adult around forty, recently before we met , and told me he could recognise a lot of the things he struggled with in me as well. He was very capable of reading subtle clues in how I acted and reacted to things that I did not even see myself."

His high radar may be effectively trained because of his own diagnosis and he utilizes the training and radar to love-bomb you in potential manipulation in order to obtain his objective.  So therefore in love-bombing effectiveness, you may have been emotionally groomed for:

"Later on he basically stopped seeing me as a person anymore. He started to treat me like a teddy bear, or mum, or a blank slate, assigning me whatever role he needed me to be at that moment until it got obvious and unbearable for me."

SoT

[Srcyu]

Unfortunately, he really saw you alright.

His manipulative personality saw a person he could overwhelm with attention and understanding. He drew you in with that, he knew what he was doing. Some people have a creepy knack of looking at a person and understanding them far too well.

Later in the relationship he revealed what he really wanted from you and he believed you would conform.
There are aspects of their own personalities that these type of people find extremely hard to acknowledge, it would crush and shame them too much. But they can always 'see' others for their weaknesses, it's a dark and sinister skill.

[Boat Babe]

I had two relationships with undiagnosed PDs. The first one was the truly evil one who started out by "seeing" me. I mean he really did. He focused on listening to me like no one else ever did. I remember talking about the water quality in my house once, very lightly, in passing. Just a throwaway comment on the quality of my cup of tea. Next week he bought me a water filter. I was gobsmacked by his thoughtfulness. I learned, because he taught me, to trust him implicitly. I told him the deepest secrets of my soul. Big mistake because when he "turned" six months into the relationship and once I'd moved in with him, everything I told him was used against me, everything.  He was a master of gaslighting and psychological warfare.  I didn't even know that people could do this even though I had witnessed my father's violence towards my mother!!!!! In the space of six months he had reduced me to a total wreck, a shadow of the young woman I was. My close friends were begging me to leave him but I clung on because of trauma bonding. He never laid a finger on me.

Yes, these people can and do "see" us, often better than the average person. It's a skill so many of them seem to have and it works. It draws us in, often very very quickly and keeps us in despite horrific abuse.  Even now, some thirty-five years later I shudder at the memory.

I was lucky insomuch as I had a lightbulb moment, no children, a few grand in the bank, a job and friends. I still had to "escape" by telling him nothing and disappearing one day whole he was at work and never going near him again. It took two years of therapy to get back on my feet emotionally though AND I still went for a second round with another charming, sexy PD guy five years ago. Gargh!

[Lookin 2 B Free]

I had similar experiences.  Especially to yours, Boat Babe.  Except I was older and had a teenager still at home.  I developed a trust in him like I never thought I would in my life.  He saw me; boy did he.  I don't think anyone (including myself) has ever caught onto the subtleties deep within me like he did. 

In the idealization phase, that was all  in service of drawing closer together.  In the devaluing paint-it-black stage, it was all in the service of revenge and trying to tear me down.  In all cases it was serving to soothe his disorder.

In our relationship, I don't believe this was all pre-planned, as in "I'll love bomb her until she falls in love with me and we move in together and then I'll revert back to my real self and treat her like dirt."  That may be the case with some, especially ASPD types.  But with my ex, I believe he wanted to have a close and loving relationship.  But the disorder makes him split psychologically, and all of a sudden I'd look evil to him ... until I didn't again and I'm the best thing he's ever had in his life -- back and forth. 

He had no insight into his own disorder.  He was just one reaction after another, like a pinball in a machine.  But his instincts when it came to me or others?  Sharp as a tack.

Also, the part about not having a good sense of self?  I read once that some PD's kind of compensate for this by adopting an identity which is a bit overkill - maybe too rigid.  I recognized that.

I wonder, Arctic Fox, why this question is important.  Is it because you wonder if he ever really loved you?  Or if maybe it would be easier to "get back to the good part" bc he's not really a pw PD?  I wondered those kinds of things a lot for quite a while ... I believe bc I was grasping for some reason to have hope and not have to give up on the dreams we once had.

There's an old Rod Stewart song that said it well:
"If I listened long enough to you
I'd find a way to believe that it's all true
Knowing that you lied straight-faced while I cried
Still, I look to find a reason to believe                           

This may not be true of any of you, but I had to look under every possible rock to convince myself that there truly was no way to make it work.