Newbie needing help! Can narcissism be triggered by something?

[Pink_Teapot]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post here and I'm hoping that someone here may be able to give me some help figuring out if my husband has narcissistic traits or if it could be something else because my situation doesn't seem to be as clear-cut as the checklists that I am finding online. I know that something is definitely wrong, and I have noticed A LOT of narcissist red flags...but some other things make me doubt if I am barking up the wrong tree. I am at the point where I can't cope with the way he is treating me any more and, for the sake of my own mental health, I need to do something. I think that I would feel much better about leaving if I were sure that I am dealing with a narcissist. I wonder if anyone here might be able to help me shed some light on what's going on?

I have been in one relationship before with a full blown 100% narcissist who ticked ALL of the boxes, so I do have a good idea how they behave. However, my husband isn't the same as my previous relationship and so I never initially suspected he could be a narcissist too, until I very gradually began to notice a few things that made alarm bells ring for me. What's throwing me the most is that things were relatively normal for the first few years of our marriage, but a certain event seems to have 'triggered' the narcissist in him, and I don't even know if that's possible!

We have been married for 8 years and first the first few years I was on cloud 9. I wouldn't say I was love-bombed but I was treated like he was completely head over heels in love with me - it was wonderful. As I say, this lasted for a few years, not just a few months. I did notice that he was kind of selfish and didn't take my opinion into consideration much. He made all of the decisions and I also noticed that if I ever called him out on anything at all, he would go silent and ignore me and I thought it was odd, but it happened so seldom that I barely ever thought about it.

The big problem came when he decided he wanted to start a family. Again, this was something I was never asked about (and honestly not something that I really wanted) but I went along with it as he had always been consumed with the idea of being a father - to the point of an unhealthy obsession I would say. When no baby showed up and he was diagnosed with a low sperm count, the cracks started to show and things went downhill. He dragged me to ivf clinics without consulting me first and when I tried to talk to him about my feelings towards having a baby, everything I said was dismissed. I felt like I was going crazy because he wasn't listening and we seemed to have the same argument over and over and over. He began to only pay me attention on ovulation days and if I didn't tell him when I was ovulation, he would become furious.  My mind couldn't (and still can't) accept that this was the man I married - it just wasn't the same person.

We tried for 7 years and had two failed pregnancies. He often talks of how life has robbed him of the chance to be a father, not seeming to recognise that I also went through the losses. When I turned 45 this year something seemed to snap in him and he slipped into a deep depression and withdrew completely from our marriage. He lost all interest in me, started to insult me and complain about me and act almost as if I weren't there. When I tried to broach the subject with him, he would either explode into a rage and somehow everything became my fault, or he would just leave me in silence for days on end. In an extraordinarily rare show of emotion one day, he told me that he had lost all interest in having a baby and that he hated himself. He said that he felt like an egotistical robot and doubted that he was even human! He also has mentioned throughout our marriage that he is incapable of changing so I should never ask him to do so. He doesn't touch me, show interest in me or acknowledge that I am there. He makes plans without me, puts everyone else before me and I can't figure out why. I haven't done anything wrong. I have let him try to have the baby he wanted, and I went to all the appointments he made, and now he is treating me like the enemy. I just doesn't make any sense to me.

Well, I could write for hours about other things that have happened, but that's the gist of it. We had been living abroad but I came home on the pretence of visiting my family and I don't think I want to go back. I recognise the gaslighting and stonewalling and blame shifting and lack of empathy, but I feel confused that it seems to have been the infertility that has triggered the worst of the narcissistic behaviour. Is that normal? Can a traumatic event bring these traits to the surface? And could it be that he only married me to fulfil his desire to be a Dad and when that didn't work he has no use for me anymore? I feel like when couples go through infertility then they lean on one another for support, but I have been attacked and discarded. It just doesn't make sense that he no longer loves me because of this baby problem.

Part of me wonders if he is just depressed and if I should try to support him, but when I asked him if he needed me to help him he said that my presence didn't matter because this was a problem that only he could fix by himself.

Does this sound narcissist to you? Or could it be the actions of an extremely depressed person? I am at a crossroads where I need to decide what to do (and bringing myself to do it will be a whole other post!) but in the meantime, do you think I am dealing with a narcissist that will never change or a depressed person who needs a supportive wife?
Thanks so much for reading!

[SonofThunder]

Hello Pink_Teapot

First, a very warm welcome to you to Out of the FOG!  So glad you joined us and I look forward to having you participate in our very fruitful discussions.  As you may read in the Personality Disorders tab at the top, the traits we all experience from PD's can be very similar, no matter who the PD is in our life and across many different types of disorders. 

Therefore, we all walk this PD trail together. We may fund ourselves at various places along the trail vs others, but there is always a nearby campfire in which to pull up a chair and join in the wonderful discussions.   

I am unable to diagnose another person and Im so sorry you are experiencing this behavior from your husband.  I am also very sorry for both of you that you have been unable to conceive a child.

I currently am separated from my wife (i will call her stbx = soon to be ex) (acronyms under resources tab at top right).  My stbx also took many years after dating and into marriage before she flipped from love-bombing to her PD traits.  I was in the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) married for decades before I became aware of personality disorders. 

I also was raised a depressed uNPDf (undiagnosed narcissistic personality disordered father) and a flying-monkey, caretaking mother. My experience with my father's depression was not one of rage, silent treatment and manipulation.  Those traits are mainly visible when he was not depressed.  His depressed traits were his lack of energy to do the basic things in living (didnt want to get out of bed, didn't want to brush his teeth, etc) and his energy-less slump and general sadness.  My uNPDf knew he was not feeling well and would at times comment that he wished he were not alive to experience the feelings of depression. He was not suicidal, but felt so 'off' that he commented how much of a sad trap he felt enclosed within.  He was generally sad when depressed, and in some stronger sad moments, would tell us family members how much he loved us. 

When he was not depressed, he was a mad asshole who would use us to do his dirty-work, manipulate, insult, control and rage at us and our mother.  As kids, he would whip us with his thick leather belt for the slightest infractions, and tell us it hurt HIM more than us to whip us...as he kept on whacking away on his bare-bottomed kids. 

My experiences with his depression was similar to autumn. Most of the year he was green with his PD traits, but during his depression, he showed colors which were much more pleasant for others to behold, yet he was experiencing the symptoms of the disease of depression. I now know that PD's can experience depression as part of the disorder and it makes sense to me. 

So again, im sorry you are experiencing these behaviors from your husband.  While you steadily learn in order to better evaluate your situation and your relationship, I will point you to the toolbox tab above.  I highly recommend you spend some time there, absorb the terms and apply the tools for your own self-protection and self-love.

See you around the boards,

SoT

[NarcKiddo]

I don't know the answer to your question but I would have thought that any inbuilt traits could be hugely magnified by something a person finds traumatic.

We knew a couple who had children but the wife wanted more. The husband did not but eventually agreed to try for another. There was a pregnancy ending in a miscarriage. The husband had entered into the effort wholeheartedly - he did not want to try for a child he was not sure he wanted. Hence the period of discussion beforehand. However the wife considered his way of expressing grief at the end of the pregnancy indicated he was relieved there was no child coming. She lost the plot, left him, became suicidal, had to be admitted to hospital on a few occasions and ultimately has become something of a recluse. We have known this couple for years and were quite close friends with both of them even before they got together and then married. The wife had always seemed a little fragile but there were no obvious signs that things might go horribly wrong for her.

[JustKeepTrying]

Hello PT and welcome to Out of the FOG.  I am glad you are here and encourage to read through the toolbox and all the wonderful resources.  Over and over again.  It is overwhelming when you take your first steps out and learning the language important.  Putting a label or name on things helps us process.  Take your time as you move through.  Regardless of diagnosis, you are mourning not just the infertility but the loss of dreams.  What you thought you had - and that is really hard.

My xOCPDh (like SOT said there are acronyms mine is diagnosed OCPD ex husband) was very covert and used depression and martyrdom to manipulate.  My sons autism and my cancer are pulled out regularly to control any situation.  I felt so hard and cruel but when I realized what he was doing - I couldn't unsee it. The first years I thought were wonderful and I excused any red flags because of stress.  But the further Out of the FOG I got the more I saw it from the beginning.  But it took time - they can't keep it up forever.

I encourage to seek counseling.  Consider a trauma therapist - the loss of a pregnancy; IVF and all of it is in itself a trauma separate from your spouse.

It is not unusual to see the patterns of behavior when you spend time away from a narc.  That push/pull is literally addictive and time away gives your adrenal system time to reset.  There are also great videos on YouTube on narcistic abuse that may help you along the way

The best advice I can give is for you to look at yourself in the mirror and give yourself the advice you would give a friend.  Sounds trite but it is true.

[Srcyu]

Hi,
After reading your post, one of my first thoughts was that it's possibly a good thing that he never became a father.
You asked for opinions so hopefully mine will help a little.
I feel you came close to answering your own question when you used the word 'discarded.' It  does sound as though this has happened to you. The narcissist in my family was my mother. At times she would 'imagine' how I could make her dreams come true as far as having a daughter was concerned. When I failed the complete discard followed which could go on for years.

I get the impression that you were meant to make your husband's dream come true - of fatherhood.
He possibly chose you because you were compliant and fawn like. He may well have really loved you as far as he could and only while you were part of his baby dream.

I'm sorry about your failed pregnancies.
Your husband's lack of empathy towards you about this while drowning in his own emotions sounds very like my mother. He treats you like the enemy because he may think that he should have 'chosen' someone else who (in his eyes) wouldn't have let him down.

His rare insight when he referred to himself as being a robot is unusual. I recall managing to break through twice to my mother about her behaviour. The shock on her face was immense but short lived. Her behaviour soon reverted back to her 'normal.'

I eventually went no contact with her long term until she died of old age.
Those are my insights Pink_Teapot.

[Pink_Teapot]

Thank you so much for all of your replies. It's so useful to hear all of your opinions and it's definitely helpful to have people on the 'outside' let me know what you think because when you are mired in a situation, it can really cloud your judgement!

[square]

You might want to look up the term "narcissistic injury."

[Pink_Teapot]

You might want to look up the term "narcissistic injury."

Wow, that's really enlightening - thank you!

[notrightinthehead]

Wecome! You write that you are with family for now and do not feel you want to go back. Trust your instincts! If he wants you back, he will let you know. For now, work on your own well being. You describe yourself as an easy going person,  maybe it is time to find out what you want, what you think, and what you can do to achieve your own goals.