Crossroads in Therapy

[fightingfog]

My husband and his siblings have very recently started therapy following a yearlong no-contact with their covert narcissistic mother and flying monkey father. In an ideal world, they believed they would enter therapy, gain some perspective and healing for themselves, and then eventually the parents would be brought into the therapy mix for a chance to A) confront them and their abuse B) build a healthy parent-children relationship, which never existed, entirely from scratch.

The therapist has eliminated this ideal-case scenario very fast. He viewed it as downright unrealistic and reminded them that narcissism is possibly the hardest personality to rehabilitate and said that any approach that directly confronts a narcissist is sure to end in disaster.

Instead, he presented them with three choices:

1. Permanent no-contact
2. Greyrocking
3. Teflon method - PLEASE correct me if this is wrong, but we are understanding the Teflon method as (frankly) not holding the narcissist accountable and instead acknowledging they are mentally ill and treating them as such.

It's really put them at a crossroads. They dislike the idea of never speaking or having a relationship with their parents again--again, we are coming down from a mindset that therapy would magically fix it all. Greyrocking seems like it should be the happy medium, but it's basically emotionally leaving just not physically leaving. And the Teflon method (again if our understanding is correct) feels like giving in and the past year will have been for nothing.

I detest my MIL for my own, personal reasons that are mine to deal with and my own boundaries to be set. But for the four brothers directly involved, I want to see things turn out the best way possible for them and their individual needs. Is no contact really the best way as most research and personal experiences attest? Is there something to this Teflon method?  Is this therapist perhaps simply not a good fit? All these men are looking for is a peaceful life, free of abuse.

[NarcKiddo]

The therapist sounds pretty sensible to me. What the brothers might want is one thing, but whether it is in any way possible is entirely another. Therapy is not a magical fix. It is a lot of hard work and self-reflection, and the success levels depend very much on the individuals concerned.

Unless the parents want therapy I cannot see any good coming out of trying to force them into some sort of family therapy. I'm not aware of much good ever coming out of trying to confront a narc. For my own self-preservation I don't confront my narc parents.

I remain in contact with my parents. Grey rock is for my protection. I don't personally see it as fully emotionally leaving, because I have not fully emotionally left. I see it as not giving any information, and thus ammunition, to the narc. It is an acceptance by me that they will not provide me with emotional support and I will not seek it from them.

I've not heard of the Teflon method. I imagine it could be combined with grey rocking though. My therapist suggested that my parents might not have any active desire to harm me, it's just that their welfare trumps mine and always has done. One could argue they have done their best, it is just a crap best. Initially I said to my therapist I could not entertain the idea that they might have done their best because it might make me drop my anger towards them and that might lead me to open myself up to further hurt. As I have progressed with therapy I have felt stronger and am able intellectually to accept the limitations of my parents without allowing that to sabotage my emotional state.

And as for your final sentence - my own opinion is that the only way to guarantee that is to keep up option 1.

[treesgrowslowly]

This sounds like a very astute therapist. I am sorry that these 4 men are facing this situation but good on them for seeking a therpists support. Mental illness is real and therapy can really help with coming to terms with the fact that our parents have a personality disorder.

Trees

[SonofThunder]

Hi fightingfog,

I agree with both NarcKiddo and treesgrowslowly's comments.  I also have also not heard of a Teflon method, but understanding Teflon's ability to withstand high heat and attributes of non-stick, I can comprehend the term's use in applying toolbox teaching. 

I will agree with the others that the Out of the FOG toolbox tools will provide the non, the resources they need to best protect themselves, from new, direct abuse. 

I wrote "new, direct", because imo, through proper adult boundaries I have the ability to protect myself.  I may have to go to extremes (divorce, nc, move etc..) but I have the right. 

These abusers have/have-had the ability and willingness to inflict emotional abuse on a target, and then detach themselves from the responsibility of the abuse in their own mind, which sets the target adrift to deal with the abuse.  The target can divorce, go NC, move etc, but the target carries the emotional abuse with them. 

Your example of four brothers now in therapy is exactly my point. The brothers have been given advice that is not what they expected nor desired, and that advice is basically that they need to work on themselves, not the other person, which is the teaching of proper boundaries and the other tools found in the toolbox.  That work will take time, energy, money and determination.  That is the predator-like behavior of the PD.  They (+)prey on others at the (-)expense of the target.  The predator gets fed and the target suffers; suffers both at the time of the direct abuse incident(s) but then potentially both emotionally and physically for a very long time afterward.

Therefore, the past abuses keep on abusing, because the damaged person(s) are now dealing with their emotional and/or physical injuries while the abuser shuffles the abuse-blame to someone or something else and moves along, getting new energy from the victim mode of the Karpman drama triangle 🔺 as they reverse the 🔺 roles. 

You wrote:  "Is no contact really the best way as most research and personal experiences attest?"

In my opinion yes. But NC is just the boundary-barrier going up (like a concrete protective wall on highway construction).  NC only provides a potential safety barrier that allows the non the ability to begin the self-work behind the wall of NC, but is not the work itself that goes on after the protective wall is erected.  NC boundary walls can take multiple forms, depending on the type of relationship that exists.

You wrote:  "Is there something to this Teflon method?  Is this therapist perhaps simply not a good fit?"

I believe the method described is another term for tools in the toolbox.  Although, viewing a PD as not responsible by mentally shuffling them into a mentally handicapped category is imo, a bit far.  I surely understand that PD's are underdeveloped, but I will continue (in my own mind) to hold them responsible. You wrote the word "accountable".  That term imo, implies that the PD will recognize and accept that they abused.  I have not experienced that with my abusers.  Therefore, I am able to understand that the PD's underdeveloped mind and need to have their emotions hosted by others, is a mental-shortfall. But, it is their 'responsibility' (my beliefs not theirs) as adult humans with adult rights and therefore subject to adult laws and morals, that empowers me to take appropriate action to protect myself.  My allowing that 'responsibility' of the PD to remain, may also cause some suffering to occur in the PD as I protect myself and that is the byproduct of responsibility.  For example, my NC with my uPDf  (a protective boundary for myself) may cause the PD to suffer loneliness and emptiness as my hosting ends.

I believe the therapist (as both NK and Trees wrote) is correct on:  "He viewed it as downright unrealistic and reminded them that narcissism is possibly the hardest personality to rehabilitate and said that any approach that directly confronts a narcissist is sure to end in disaster."

Finally, you wrote: "All these men are looking for is a peaceful life, free of abuse." 

Imo, that is something they will each have to find/make for themselves and has nothing to do with the actions or reactions of the PD.  I wish all of them (and you) the forward progress of healing, behind the protective wall they build. 

SoT

[Leonor]

"NC only provides a potential safety barrier that allows the non the ability to begin the self-work behind the wall of NC, but is not the work itself that goes on after the protective wall is erected."



In other words, it's not about the adult child's parents. It's about the adult child.

As a mother of sons, it makes me so sad to think of them as adults in a therapist's office, hoping to hear that someone they don't know can make their mommy see how much they love her so that she can love them back. Somewhere inside, they are still the little boys who tugged at her hem or brought home a crayon heart, and they are very dear.

I think you might benefit from drawing some boundaries, too, dear fighting. I totally understand a desire, even need, for education on these kinds of disorders to support your dh (and for those What the ..? moments you may have experienced with the inlaws yourself.) But the truth is that your dh and his brothers feel like little boys but are now grown men. They are each fully capable of growing into a healthy, aware, and informed perspective on their parents. And as individuals, those perspectives may, and perhaps even should, differ ... Boundaries are not a team effort to effect change in others, but to create the space we need to make the changes we want to see in ourselves.

And the most loving thing you can do to encourage and support your husband in that.

[Srcyu]

Hi,
I have heard of The Teflon Method.
It means letting nothing stick. It's a form of self protection that requires the right frame of mind. Contact can still be had with the people in question. A mental wall is built (out of Teflon) that causes all upsetting/untrue/annoying things said - slide off.

[Cat of the Canals]

I hadn't heard of the Teflon Method before. I usually refer to dealing with my PDmom and PDmil as greyrocking, but there are times I think I am doing more of the Teflon method. I associate it with mindfulness and radical acceptance. The acceptance is NOT about excusing the PD behavior, but accepting things for as they ARE, not as they should be/how you want them to be. It's easier said than done, frankly, and I can't imagine ever managing to stay in that mode 100% of the time. They are simply too good at triggering me (PDmom moreso than PDmil, though she has her moments). Even Eckhart Tolle, who I consider a master of mindfulness, has talked about how he can only be around his mother for about 4 days and then he's "done." If he can't do it infinitely, I'm not sure anyone can. 

[Leonor]

 

That's so funny, Cat. It sounds like a New Age game show: "How long can Eckhart Tolle stand your mom?"

Whoever's mom lasts the shortest wins!

[Cat of the Canals]

That's so funny, Cat. It sounds like a New Age game show: "How long can Eckhart Tolle stand your mom?"

Whoever's mom lasts the shortest wins!

I'd watch that show!

It's funny but also something I find helpful to remember when I get frustrated with myself for NOT being able to be in Teflon mode all the time. I know them well enough by now that their behavior is often predictable, or at the very least, not surprising. It feels like I should be able to play the "I'm rubber, you're glue" game indefinitely, but it never works that way in practice. When I remind myself, "Eckhart Tolle can only be around his mother for four days." I feel less like a failure. 

[Starboard Song]

An option seems to me to be missing. Where is greyrock + VVLC, for instance?

I am myself NC with my in-laws for over 7 years, so I support NC when necessary. But it comes with attendant troubles that VVLC does not create. NC is fighting words: it puts a lot of collateral relationships at risk, and creates enormous moral stress over time, as family marriages and births and funerals continue apace, and when serious geriatric and end-of-life issues arise with the objects of our NC.

Disciplined VVLC isn't perfect: it is slightly more contact than No Contact. But then, NC isn't perfect either. And VVLC plus whatever tactics is way better than trying to grey rock yourself out of disaster with full, ordinary contact.

Anyway, I think proposals should always have two components: both a contact level and primary tactics. This therapist suggested either the most extreme contact level possible, or else tactics with no consideration of alternate contact levels. That seems to me to be leaving a lot of options undiscovered.