Irritating niceness and an apology

[losingmyself]

Last night when I got home, I moved a thing from my car to H's vehicle, and because he had just washed it, the doors were frozen. Had a heck of a time getting a door opened and then I couldn't shut it. I went inside and told H this, sorry I opened the door and can't get it shut. As per history, he raged at me, etc, same old bs, insults, swearing, complaining.  Whatever. Went and fixed it.
What happened next kind of surprised me.
He apologized. 
An actual true apology. 
"I'm sorry I acted like that, I shouldn't have, that wasn't right of me to yell at you like that"
Hu....
My only thought was 'so, you know when you do something you should apologize for.'
He has just for the last almost 15 years apparently chosen not to.
The good thing is that this means to me that he knows something is wrong, and he'd better straighten up (AKA hoover)
before I leave him.
I was worried that he figured things were going to be ok with us, so he could just go back to acting the way he always has.
This is how I used to hope and pray that he'd behave. Minus the yelling. But now
I see it for what it is. Hoovering.
He's still apologizing today. I just keep saying Don't worry about it...
No, really. Don't...

[escapingman]

Well done for spotting it losingmyself. They know full well what they are doing, they just don't care about it, or more likely they enjoy doing it. I suspect even though he apologised this time, he is not going to stop the abusive behaviour.

[SonofThunder]

Hi losingmyself,

I agree, PD's know exactly what they are doing.  Imo, if they prove that capability to me just one time, then its 100% of the time.  I also believe that the actions and reactions of PD's are guided by their incredibly high emotional focus of the 'self'. 

Therefore I believe that even pleasant actions or reactions, such as an apology, are provided for a foundational 'self' reason.  So, therefore, when a PD performs an action or reaction that seems like genuine remorse, sympathy, empathy or deep kindness, I privately use that occurrence to privately dive much further into the 'why' that occurred.  In my own experiences, something that is so rare, such as what you describe in your post, brings up the terms:

A: gaslighting (are they doing this to deny me my own reality, confuse me, or or some other manipulation that accomplishes a 'self' desire)

B: projection (flipping the narrative related to the same subject, so the PD can switch drama triangle 🔺roles for a reason, such as IDD cycle desire or guilt).

C: smoke screening (my own term) (creating drama about a different subject to detour my/others attention away from some truth that occurred or is/is-going-to occur, in which the PD desires to keep hidden.

Imo, hoovering happens for a self reason.  I have experienced plenty of kind actions and reactions, like remorse, sympathy, attempted empathy, kind words, gift-giving and even offers for romance, that were actually covert PD manipulation to serve a self need.  So, I will encourage you to possibly think deeply about the 'why'? 

Examples using your post:

Projection (same subject):  Is there something regarding the car that he's trying to hide or something he desires (like a new car, something he bought for the car, something he did with the car). Is car washing a rare event for him?  Is he desiring you apologize for something and if you dont, he will use this rare apology to flip 🔺roles to be the victim of your refusal to apologize.

Smoke screen (different subject):  Is his rare apology provided to throw your own scent-hounds off a fact in another area of his life that he desires to keep hidden? 

Hoovering:  Is this a currently heightened time in your lives where he is experiencing your refusal to comply in the IDD cycle?  Have you threatened, or hinted at your potential departure from the marriage?  Therefore an apology is possibly for a self need. 

Imo, using these odd events as a catalyst for me to quickly, quietly and secretly investigate the recent past for clues (credit card transactions, phone calls, check the pockets of clothes worn, check the car for dents, scrapes or something odd, smell clothes for something untypical) may provide me some hugely beneficial information.  I recommend thinking about what is occurring in your life at the current time or for possible future reasons.  My doing this has been a fantastic war-plan knowledge gaining strategy for me.  I never reveal my investigation or plans.

SoT

[losingmyself]

Thank you for your kind replies.
SOT, I believe his apology is hoovering, as there's increased GR and MC on my part. This way he can show how loving he is, and how I can't possibly have anything to complain about. 
Yeaterday he said something along the lines of "I feel bad,  after how I treated you yesterday "
I wanted to say I'm used to it, but there's no point. I just gave a "Oh"
It's also projection.  If I don't react kindly and act happy, then he has proof that I'm the difficult one who is always crabby.
Although it's interesting to see these patterns, finally, I am just keeping the house calm until I can file for divorce.  Have to wait until spring, though. 

[SonofThunder]

Thank you for your kind replies.
SOT, I believe his apology is hoovering, as there's increased GR and MC on my part. This way he can show how loving he is, and how I can't possibly have anything to complain about. 
Yeaterday he said something along the lines of "I feel bad,  after how I treated you yesterday "
I wanted to say I'm used to it, but there's no point. I just gave a "Oh"
It's also projection.  If I don't react kindly and act happy, then he has proof that I'm the difficult one who is always crabby.
Although it's interesting to see these patterns, finally, I am just keeping the house calm until I can file for divorce.  Have to wait until spring, though.

Losingmyself,

Im happy to read that you are confident in your analysis of hoovering 👍.  Your original post stated: 

"My only thought was 'so, you know when you do something you should apologize for.'  He has just for the last almost 15 years apparently chosen not to. The good thing is that this means to me that he knows something is wrong, and he'd better straighten up (AKA hoover)"

My experiences have bern that PD's cycle in the IDD and hoovering is a PD tool to recycle.  If apologizing has not been present for 15 years, what has been his hoovering tactic prior?  Also, if the apologizing tool is just now being used in all these years, then would you associate a strong effect of GR and MC, causing that to occur, is the use of a new apology tool because of something more severe that he suspects or fears, because of his new experiences with your GR and MC?

SoT

[SonofThunder]

Genuine regret, remorse and apologies lead to changed behavior...but as we know, PDs can't change. So I am unimpressed with her apologies, I just see it as further control and manipulation, and don't get too excited about it.

To user's wife: you want to apologize? Stop doing the thing that you need to apologize for...then I'll start listening.

+1 

I want to add an opinion that I also have regret and remorse that leads to apologies for my actions and reactions and I also desire to experience the self-gain of relief in doing so.  Theres an interesting episode of Friends where Joey is trying to prove that every action/reaction for all, is self motivated at its core.  I believe that as humans, that exists in the core. 

But, as you well said, as a non-PD, we work on self improvement, which may take a few more stumbles in our continuous work on ourselves.  In addition, I believe we non's, realize the expense (-) we caused to the other person by our actions that caused us to apologize and it is not our nature to (-) feed on others. Imo remorse and a heartfelt apology is both an attempt to restore (+) the other person but also ourselves. 

Although PD's false apologies are self-feeding (+) motivated at our expense (-), because my experience is they are nothing but strategic positioning and not a true attempt at restoration (+) of the other person.  Their repeating the same offenses imo, have an emotionally compounding (-) effect on us non's.

The opinionated point I'm making is that some 'self' is natural for all humans in the ebb & flow of normal human interaction, but the predator (+) self actions/reactions of PD's at the expense (-) of the host-non are not the same.  Motive is the key difference.

Haha most of my true remorse and apologies were not accepted, but used to leverage something else entirely, or the PD kept hammering the accusation nail of that particular incident despite my true apology.

SoT

[losingmyself]

This made me think. My 'self' reason for apologizing is to express remorse, and then not repeat that behavior so as not to hurt another person. I feel better if I let them know I'm sorry. Then don't do it again.  This apology given by me is seen as a reason to punish me, because I've admitted to an offense. The apology for my H is to make me forgive him and move on. No idea that he's not going to repeat the behavior.  More likely that he is. But he can feel good about himself. That's his 'self' reason.

[SonofThunder]

This made me think. My 'self' reason for apologizing is to express remorse, and then not repeat that behavior so as not to hurt another person. I feel better if I let them know I'm sorry. Then don't do it again.  This apology given by me is seen as a reason to punish me, because I've admitted to an offense. The apology for my H is to make me forgive him and move on. No idea that he's not going to repeat the behavior.  More likely that he is. But he can feel good about himself. That's his 'self' reason.

This is also my experiences with both PD's in my life. +1

But also, when their normal self behaviors are odd, uncommon or amplified over normal, I quietly put my scent-hounds out to investigate. Knowledge is golden.

SoT

[escapingman]

This made me think. My 'self' reason for apologizing is to express remorse, and then not repeat that behavior so as not to hurt another person. I feel better if I let them know I'm sorry. Then don't do it again.  This apology given by me is seen as a reason to punish me, because I've admitted to an offense. The apology for my H is to make me forgive him and move on. No idea that he's not going to repeat the behavior.  More likely that he is. But he can feel good about himself. That's his 'self' reason.

I had to stop apologizing to STBX if I ever did or didn't do something as any apology was a proof that she was right and I was wrong and then she could use it against me.

[PlantFlowersNotWeeds]

Interesting post for me today, because last night my ex-PD agreed to give me some personal items that I have been trying to get for months.

I still may never get them, but his willingness to hand them over now is definitely to serve his own self - maybe to prove he's a nice person, some hoovering?, to provide facts to change the narrative,....whatever.  It's definitely not because it's the nice thing to do. 

[losingmyself]

It's all manipulation, isn't it??
It's just as simple as that. This thought came to me last night.
Everything they do in the IDD cycle is manipulation to MAKE us FEEL something.
It's up to us to choose how we feel.

[IsleOfSong]

It's all manipulation, isn't it??
It's just as simple as that. This thought came to me last night.
Everything they do in the IDD cycle is manipulation to MAKE us FEEL something.
It's up to us to choose how we feel.

This is so true. I am in a very similar situation to yours, losingmyself, and it's making me feel, well, confused. Back around the holidays, I finally told my PD wife that I was considering ending things with her due to her lousy behavior toward me and the kids (this was after a prolonged silent treatment from her for the gazillionth time). Apparently I scared her straight, because since then she's been really good — zero blowups, good treatment of the kids.... basically she's been a model spouse. But it's "irritating," to quote the title of this thread, because it feels like yet another manipulation to me — she is choosing to be nice now, and she could have chosen this for years and years but opted not to, for her own PD reasons. So whereas most people would think I should be relieved by the shift, I am basically icked out by its suddenness and the fact that it feels like "too little, too late." (I'm also waiting for her to slide back into PD territory, but I see no signs of it yet.)

I didn't mean to hijack your thread, but I do want you to know that I totally get it and that you're not alone. I know that you are hoping to find the courage to move forward with a split, as I am. Let's hope we both find it.

[losingmyself]

Thank you IOS, and I'm here to get feedback from everyone, and sharing your story most certainly isn't hijacking anything. I appreciate your story, and it's nice to be understood, and share our experiences.
I spent a lot of time being confused until I learned to disconnect, and say, "No, he is mean, he is
a bully to my kids, and being super nice or buying us things or going on trips or good sex, doesn't just make it go away!" That's how I feel and it's not wrong or crazy to have those feelings. Being nice doesn't make bad behavior go away.
And I would guess that your wife can't keep up the act forever.
Could you suddenly act like a jerk every day for the rest of your life? I'm gonna guess not. It takes a lot of effort. It's not in your nature.
What's in her nature?

[IsleOfSong]

Could you suddenly act like a jerk every day for the rest of your life? I'm gonna guess not. It takes a lot of effort. It's not in your nature.
What's in her nature?

Very good point, losingmyself. I was watching a Dr. Ramani video yesterday entitled "When narcissists give you too much, too late" and it really hit the nail on the head for me. The best part, taken from the transcript:

"It's a game. They're trying to figure out what your psychological price is, and if they find out there is one, having that information gives them even more power in their relationship. ... Everything is a negotiation and a transaction for a narcissistic person. They aren't offering you all you ever wanted because it is out of empathy or because they're finally seeing you. The awful part is that they were hearing you all these years, and they kept ignoring your pleas. But they were hearing you, because now they're turning it into collateral into currency they can use to suck you back in."

[InTheDragonsDen]

Every action, every word from the NPD is a transaction. They want without a care about others.