Does anyone have experiences with PD and Alzheimers or similar?

[arcticfox]

Hello you lovely people. I'm not sure if this is the right board for this, sorry if not!

Is there anyone here who would have some experiences or opinions on how an memory illness, like Alzheimers, Parkinsons, dementia etc has impacted the behaviour, moods and general mental stage of a pwPD? Especilaly in early stage, and how did it get finally noticed?
Anything related to this would be greatly appreciated!

Background info/long story short: My ex partner has a high genetic risk for a certain condition, and spesifically for a rare early onset version (think on the lines of getting Alzheimers or dementia at 30). I am now wondering if some of his odd, paranoid and chaotic behaviours related to his possible BPD could have been enhanced, or gotten worse, by the early stage of a memory illness. Or from another angle: could the cognitive symptoms of a early stage memory illness go unnoticed because they get lost in the sea of all the psychological turmoil.

I have a variety of reasons to look in to this, and would just like to reassure you that I'm not just looking for "excuses" that would somehow justify my exes behaviour. I realised that very soon I would've started to receive a yearly screening questionnaire sent to both the  person in a risk group and their SO. Some questions revolve around things like "In your opinion, has your loved one been exeptionally rigid in their opinions on something that you feel should not be an issue", "has your loved one been obsessed with being right or "winning" an argument, and not changing their mind even when confronted with clear facts or evidence" , "has your loved one acted or felt ambushed, attacked or deceived by you, the government or other people when no such attack is taking place", you get the general idea. He basically ticks each and every box of the mental health related symptoms they are screening for.

The last question was "have these behaviours during the previous year

a) stayed the same
b) increased slightly
c) increased significantly
d) increased to the point where you worry for the safety of your loved one or yourself

My answer would have to d) "not safe", given that I left him because life had become utterly intolerable with him, and I genuinely do feel he's not safe for himself: during the last year he has crashed his finances, wasted tens of thousands on hobbies, made a mess of his (previously very succesful) job by being stubborn to the point he's about to get fired next week, and he's getting sued for not paying his mortgage. And he's managed to alienate his kids with his behaviours to the point they now would prefer to live with their mum full time.

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated!

Also don't worry, I am absolutely also going to consult a real doctor about this! I'm just asking for your personal experiences and to open a discussions because this Forum is an exeptionally safe and sane corner of the internet and I appreciate all of you and your thoughts!

[Catothecat]

This isn't exactly like what you're discussing, arcticfox, but my mother is a capital N narc although not quite NPD and she is also suffering from serious cognitive decline.  About 15 years ago, before she showed any evidence of cognitive issues, I definitely noticed a "hardening" of her narc tendencies.  They were becoming more noticeable, more exaggerated, more florid, if you will, and I found it odd because nothing new was going on in her life to cause that change.  She'd always been a narc but more covert, and was way more tolerable to be around because the narc traits would come and go as she seemed to have some control over how she expressed herself and her behavior.  But then I noticed a change that was gradual but progressive.  More and more, everything in life became about her.  She had an opinion on every topic and was always right.  She started disliking people she once liked since no one suited her.  She was critical of everyone but herself because she had no flaws.  And so on...

The other issues followed some years later, but they, too, started out gradual but then progressed, slowly at first but then at an increasing rate.  Finally it got to the point where she could no longer live safely alone and she is now in a facility.  And now that I look back, it all started with the narc progression.  But at the time, who could say that this was a sign of cognitive issues?  And I'm not entirely sure that it's related, although I would bet that it was.  Of course, I also sometimes think maybe if we'd paid more attention to these signs we could've encouraged her to get whatever help is available, but with these types of disorders, the person affected doesn't often know they're affected and what are the odds a narc will "get help."  I would even suggest to my mother that she do more to "stretch" her mind, long before she started her decline, because that's always a good thing for an older person to do.  But would she listen, let alone do anything? Of course not.  The idea that her faculties might start to falter, that she should be proactive, wasn't one she could tolerate.  She had to be perfect, all the time, and admitting she was getting older was something she couldn't do.

This is a tough issue to deal with but I think the discussion always needs to be had because as people are living longer the odds are we're going to have to deal with someone with issues like this, or even in ourselves.  Thanks for starting it, fox!

[Lookin 2 B Free]

I, too, have a uPD mother with dementia.  I was told decades ago it looked like BPD from a professional, and OCPD, too, because of the wet hoarding which fit the PD mode.  Also a lot of N characteristics.  She was always quite rigid, controlling and had very distorted thinking and paranoia from a young age.  I don't think those things got worse with dementia, early or late.   

The one thing I noticed with early dementia was losing what filter she had.  She was more cagey when younger.  Then it all started getting expressed everywhere.  She used to be very concerned and strategic about what she let out to strangers.  But the basic pattern, for anyone close to her, was pretty identical. 

In late dementia she cannot gameplay or control anyone anymore.  She always operated as an emotional child, always.  But now she's very confused and dependent and childlike in every way, and no longer her PD self at all.  There are some hard things about the changes and having her be unrecognizable from the mom I knew.  But there are some benefits, too. 

I hope you get some clarity.

Free

[myself]

I do think there is a complex interplay between cognitive decline and personality disorder.

Firstly, I think that because a person is not born with a personality disorder, it can continue to develop over time as the behaviours and the beliefs underlying them become more entrenched.

Secondly, I think that age-related cognitive decline is likely to unmask anything that was there to begin with.

Where it gets complicated is where symptoms of cognitive decline line up with other symptoms, such as rigid thinking, self-centred behaviour, saying things that are socially inappropriate.

I have known two men with familial early onset dementia (I don't know the specific diagnosis) and both of them began to act like not very nice people, which was very distressing to friends and family. One began to make bad choices with money and relationships, the other had always been a difficult character but became erratic, suspicious, and angry. In both cases once they were diagnosed the doctors were clear in telling the family that it was the disease, not the person, and that in one case it had probably started very early, probably still in their 30s, but it had been missed because of alcohol use covering the signs. The doctor even suggested that the alcohol use may have been an attempt to deal with the symptoms, as it had not been diagnosed in the family yet. So, it seems an early onset Alzheimer's or dementia type disease can masquerade for years as unpleasant personality traits or other mental health problems.

We tend to think of cognitive decline as mainly affecting memory, but sometimes it is more complex functions that are affected, so that depression, anxiety, or the inability to forsee outcome is the first sign. I also have seen in aging probablePDs the effect of the mask coming off as the person loses the capacity to maintain a social filter. In these cases I am thinking of, knowing now how a N operates, I think that medical and care staff overstimated the progression of cognitive decline, thinking the rudeness and childish pot-stirring (think creating drama among care home patients) an effect of the disease rather than something those people had always done, only more covertly, and were doing purposely.

On the whole, I think if disordered behaviour makes a sudden jump in intensity, it is worth that person being evaluated for some other illness.

[Jolie40]

PD parent fell,  needed surgery, and went to rehab.
Unfortunately, she couldn't walk again & ended up in long term care.

I believe PT said it was "mental" issue not being able to walk again.
So the cognitive decline was already happening.

She was in NH for 2 years before passing away this past December.
The decline got worse & worse.
She would call two of my siblings up to 50 times a day. She would call & 5 min later call again because she forgot that she had called them.  The memory got really bad.

She got to where she refused to do anything such as wouldn't comb hair, wouldn't get out of bed, wouldn't take showers. A sad, sad way to live out one's last days.

[Poison Ivy]

Alzheimer's disease and other dementia disorders stink. I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy.

[1footouttadefog]

Frontal Lobe dimentia, Lewy Body, and Parkinsons related dimentias can all mimmick or exagerate PD issues.

Additionally bipolar people can have mixed manic episodes that look like a messy mix or all things PD. 

Sometimes people with bipolar cam hablve such intense brain chemistry during a manic episode they actually suffer cognative decline.  Sometimes they will come back to normal once the epusode is over but sometimes they can have permenant loss. 

In my experience is like a ball that is dropped from shoulder heoght it bounces back up but not to its original posotion.  With each drop it retirms to somewhere near but less than the original position. 

My spouse is a covert narc with ocpd.  He also has ptsd, bipolar and possibly dementia.  The symptoms have been recognized but not so labled at this time.

Just a note, heavy drinking can cause its own form of alcoholic dimentia.  This is exagerated by the flushing out and or inability to absorb certain vitamins like thiamine and others.  Additionally heavy drinkers often neglect eating properly making things even worse.  If reversed early enough reasonable recovery might be achieved. 

The above is for the sake of offering keywords that might prove useful in another's research, and might not be entirely accurate in a strict consideration of medical terminology.