Cannabis

[StartingHealing]

Hello to all here.

I'm not in contact with stbxPD (court is in 17 days) however I've ran across some information and was wondering if anyone here has had a similar experience(s).

stbxPD was / is a heavy cannabis user.  It's "legal" at the state level where I am located.   It appears that THC inhibits REM sleep which the studies on lack of REM sleep haven't been conclusive on general negative effects.  I do know that lack of sleep in general is not good.

I have also ran across information that exposure to large amounts of THC as a teen can make manifest a latent mental health disease, such as bi-polar, schizophrenia, etc.  If that is possible then could that also trigger a PD becoming manifest?

Has anyone here had the experience that cannabis increases the severity of the actions of a person with PD?

Sounds counter intuitive I know.  However, I know of folks with ADD that to calm down they drink coffee / tea, some fairly strong amount of caffeine.

I am of two minds over this, one the one hand if it exacerbated the behaviors that is one thing, but if it actually was mitigating the behaviors, I shudder at the thought because she was removed from the property due to an imminent threat to my health and well being.

Thanks for the reply's!

[square]

My understanding is that weed can cause some people, with certain brain chemistries or other predispositions, increased paranoia and/or psychosis.

Both could in turn easily increase PD traits/behaviors.

I know weed has a "chill" effect for many people but it definitely has different effects for some. My guess is that in the scenario you described, weed exacerbated the issues rather than mitigating them.

[StartingHealing]

My understanding is that weed can cause some people, with certain brain chemistries or other predispositions, increased paranoia and/or psychosis.

Both could in turn easily increase PD traits/behaviors.

I know weed has a "chill" effect for many people but it definitely has different effects for some. My guess is that in the scenario you described, weed exacerbated the issues rather than mitigating them.

square, that would explain her daily cycle then,  was a wake and bake type, and when the 'euphoria' would start wearing off her behavior would become more severe.  then another cycle of use but it seemed she never got to the same level as first of day.    Usually when she would act out would be afternoon - evening.

[Cat of the Canals]

Both of my parents were/are heavy users -- I'm not sure if it's as heavy now that they are in their 70s as it was when I was younger, but I'm fairly certain they continue to smoke several times daily, at the very least.

It's impossible to say whether it increases or decreases my mother's PD since I don't have a sober PDmom to compare to.    My personal instinct is that it neither helps nor hinders, but that's really a guess at best. I can't think of a time where I ever felt like she seemed more "chill" after smoking. (Can't think of a time I ever thought of her as being "chill" to be frank.) I suspect with the level of use they were engaging in, they had quite a tolerance built up, and they were, at best, simply staying "level."

PDmil is just about as straight as they come... I've never considered what effect marijuana might have on her before. I would give it 50/50 odds between it making her bearable or pushing her already severe paranoia to the brink of insanity.

[Associate of Daniel]

I have a very limited amount of knowledge regarding any drugs.  I've thankfully never been tempted to try any.

I remember seeing a documentary a number of years ago that talked of there being 2 types of marijuana.  One that has short term effects and one that has long term effects.  If my memory is correct (!), the longer term effects are mainly around memory issues and difficulties with time management.  That's about all I know.

My uNPD exH told me before we were married that he had smoked it casually as a teenager and I think as a young adult.  I never saw him partake of it while we were married, bur who knows?

He definitely had issues with time management.  He seems a lot better now on that matter though. He also displayed for a few years after he left a mild paranoia.  I wouldn't say it was of a clinical level but there was certainly an irrational fear of me talking to any of his family, colleagues or friends.  I don't know what he thought I might possibly say or what he thought would come of it.  Anyway, that seems to have abated somewhat and only raises its head sparodically now.

But I have often wondered if the pd traits that he has might have been caused at least in part by his smoking of marijuana.

I'm very interested to see where this thread goes.

AOD

[SonofThunder]

I am of two minds over this, one the one hand if it exacerbated the behaviors that is one thing, but if it actually was mitigating the behaviors, I shudder at the thought because she was removed from the property due to an imminent threat to my health and well being.

StartingHealing,

I have no experience related to cannabis and PD's, but I have a ton of cannabis experience.  For six years (age 19-24 yr), I was a daily user of large quantities and varieties of cannabis, and also a dealer of cannabis to many, so around cannabis smokers and other drug users most of the time.  I never experienced paranoia from cannabis, but from harder drugs yes.  I never witnessed paranoia from cannabis alone, but harder drugs yes. 

Todays THC levels, as cannabis has been propagated for this purpose, may yield a different result for the user compared to my late 1980's years, so I cant speak for today's users or today's cannabis.   

But I want to say that no matter what, the behaviors you experienced, fully warranted her being removed, no matter how inflated or deflated they were due to mental illness, drug interaction or any combo.  I desire for my Out of the FOG comrades to focus on their experiences, and take appropriate action to self-protect, which you did correctly and strongly at that time. 

Once in the comforts of improved safety (emotional, physical or both), then researching the causations (as you are doing) can be a benefit to our understanding which leads to further strengthening of our toolbox in future situations with these people or others.

SoT

[Catothecat]

I know this is anecdotal, and just my experience with my NPDexh, but here it is--

My exh was what used to be called a "pothead" (is it still?)  I met him when he was 20 and already a heavy user, so how it affected his PD is hard to say.  I can say, however, that his parent's facilitation of his PD was the major component because no only did they ignore his PD behavior (not just the pot smoking), they actively encouraged it (the PD, I mean).  He was the GC, the only child, who could do no wrong and whatever he did was fine with them.  They formed a cheering squad behind his PD behavior so naturally his pot smoking was no big deal because he was always allowed to do what he wanted, right?!  And who was I to complain? 

It was just part of a behavior pattern which was consistent with not dealing with reality, not dealing with problems, expecting everyone else to take care of him no matter what he did etc.  It may have exacerbated his behavior but certainly wasn't the cause of it.  The cause had been established when he was a kid always allowed to get his way no matter what.

[StartingHealing]

Catothecat:  I can see that in that situation.  In stbxPD case she wasn't allowed to do whatever.  There were expectations of behavior, certain level of grades in school, etc.  Two parent household, solid middle class, mom was home when kids got back after school, church on Sunday, all that. 

SonofThunder:  I did my fair share of cannabis in the 80's as well.  Generally speaking though, it was a fun experience except for the "hangover" that would sometimes occur the next day. I was never a daily user.  I have observed people in various stages of intoxication from various substances.  And in my prior experience I have never seen this level of brutality in behavior.  I have seen stbxPD to a point where cognitively, she wasn't there.  A point where more THC wouldn't have increased the level of intoxication.   I would suspect that stbxPD also did the same when she was in her teens. 

Associate of Daniel / Cat of the Canals:   There definitely is a cognitive impairment.  Memory impacts, difficulty in learning new things, (which she passed off as ADHD) as far as paranoia goes, that would vary seemingly not related to her usage.  She would also self report "whirly mind" which she also used as an excuse to use.   At the time she was removed from the property she did have a very high tolerance.  As I have not been in her presence except for a single court hearing, I cannot ascertain where her current level of use / tolerance is.

I would like to add that stbxPD mother had been diagnosed with depression and had been on various anti-depressants for decades.  Also had attempted self - deletion twice that I am aware of.  Which I think had to do with some deeper issues rather than only depression.  stbxPD also had an aunt (mothers sister) that was in a facility pretty much life long because of schizophrenia.  So there is a genetic possibility that stbxPD has something beyond the PD.

I would guess that stbxPD uses in a attempt to self medicate due to psycho / emotional issues rather than for physical pain relief (she does have a bad leg due to a workplace accident).   

The intermixing of PD behaviors and the outward effects of cannabis is difficult to determine the difference in my case.  Perhaps I'm still to close, cannot see the forest because of the trees as it were.

Peace

[samia]

I know/knew a person who was an extremely heavy user. This person was a roommate DH and I lived with, and it turned out he had a severe PD problem. He was abusive towards us, his family, and the neighbors, and was extremely paranoid and aggressive. I hardly knew him outside of his worst moments, so I can't compare. What I can say, if anything, is that his cannabis use certainly didn't seem to make things any easier when it came to how he treated others.

We stayed far away from him as things got worse so I can't say for certain if he was still using when things ramped up. From that experience, I think cannabis doesn't affect a person's abusive actions; their mood, sure, but they still consciously choose to do the things they do.

[StartingHealing]

I know/knew a person who was an extremely heavy user. This person was a roommate DH and I lived with, and it turned out he had a severe PD problem. He was abusive towards us, his family, and the neighbors, and was extremely paranoid and aggressive. I hardly knew him outside of his worst moments, so I can't compare. What I can say, if anything, is that his cannabis use certainly didn't seem to make things any easier when it came to how he treated others.

We stayed far away from him as things got worse so I can't say for certain if he was still using when things ramped up. From that experience, I think cannabis doesn't affect a person's abusive actions; their mood, sure, but they still consciously choose to do the things they do.

I do see your point.  That was the odd thing for me was that most chronic users { outside of the stbx }  that I have been around are not typically aggressive, argumentative, manipulating, etc.  As long as there is a supply of cannabis available.  I am starting to see that perhaps in people with PD's the cannabis literally doesn't make a positive difference in their negative behavior if anything I would hazard to say that it actually makes the behaviors more severe.   Which raises a series of bio-medical questions that some researcher somewhere will eventually dig into.  Since I'm not that person, I'm not going there.