Looking for advice about preferential and bizarre treatment of ASPD sister

[realitybaths]

I'm looking for some input here.

Just to make a very long story short--my ASPD sister (she actually fits the definition of a psychopath), who has caused massive trauma and chaos for my siblings and I, and indeed seems to relish in it (including ghosting my other sister after my ASPD sister's son abused her daughter).

She was just taken on an all expenses paid trip by my father up to see some other family in Minneapolis.

This was after we were told over and over again by my parents that they "had little contact with her" and had distanced themselves.

My brother, sister and I were aghast after the email came through and tried to hold them to account after my father got back from the trip and had a long discussion with them.

They still refuse to say anything to the ASPD, sociopath daughter about her behavior and the family wreckage left in her wake. My functional sister and brother basically have said that in that case at this point, they don't want much to do with my parents. I personally cannot do this, as I know how painful being ghosted by my ASPD sister was.

Anyone have advice about this--am I doing the right thing by still trying to have a good relationship with my parents?

[moglow]

Just a little food for thought - you don't have to cut anyone out because you choose to have a relationship with another [or not]. Each and every relationship, even within a family, is different from the others. Their choices may not be yours, and by the same token yours don't have to be theirs. All for one and one for all sounds great but the reality is, we're still talking about individuals even within a family.

You can absolutely choose to not be around your sibling(s) and/or parents to whatever degree you're comfortable, and that's your choice as an individual. You're answerable to no one for those choices - we're talking about *you*, not them. They can choose to have whatever relationship they want, AND y'all can all agree to disagree with each other's choices - AND still have relationships with each other.

You might suggest that certain subjects [your sister and her business, for example] are simply off limits. Help if or where you can or feel able, and leave her be otherwise. If you can't or don't want to, then don't, and that case I'd step aside altogether. Just "because they're family" doesn't make it your obligation or right to interfere or gossip, is what I'm saying. I suspect y'all deserve a lot better than has been allowed so far.

[realitybaths]

Wow, thanks for this. Great advice.

I told my parents that, whilst I cannot have an attenuated relationship with them based on the fact that they refuse to communicate with my ASPD sister about the horror-show she has wrought, I want the following:

1. I never want to discuss her, her family, her behavior, or how her behavior has so badly affected my other siblings and their children, again.
2. Under no circumstance can they tell the ASPD sister anything about my life, my family, or another other matter related to me.  Those are my guidelines and boundaries. Unfortunately, I live in the same town as this psychopathic sister, so not encountering her can be difficult.

[moglow]

Sounds reasonable in the big picture, but you can't control others any more than they can control you. It's not reasonable to expect it and will frustrate you beyond all reason if you try. You can *ask* that they not share your life with her but at the end of the day, you probably know whatever they know will likely be told if the subject comes up. So yeah, you may have to gauge what you share with parents too.

You can absolutely refuse to discuss her, her problems, behavior, and separate yourself from them. It's not your stuff and doesn't need to be. Your responsibility there is to a) not ask, and b) not feed the discussion should they try to have it anyway. When parents bring it up [as they likely will], you can change the subject, step away for a moment, leave the room, whatever it takes. Respond with things like: Hmmmm. Well. I'm sorry to hear that. Practice gray rock. Medium chill. Bland. Unemotional. Noncommittal responses. And you have to be consistent with it - you don't want to hear or have any part of it. I wouldn't be rude but I'd be firm. "I prefer to not talk about someone behind their back and that's what this feels like. What's been going on with your [garden, flowers, pets, community] these days?!"

It'll take practice and a lot of clenched teeth to break old patterns, but it can be done. Remember your goal - Peace. Life's good things. Health and well being for all. Are any of that helped by having those same old conversations over and over?

[realitybaths]

More great advice.  Here's another question:

Do you, or others, feel that my functional brother and sister have fallen into a trap by stating that they don't know what kind of relationship they can have with my parents unless they talk to my ASPD sister about her horrible behavior?  In some ways it feels like this is what she wants--more chaos and brokenness. 

I mean, it does seem like they are neglecting their parental role somewhat, especially considering the suffering my sister is going through (the one who's child was molested).  This was bad--CPS was actually involved with my ASPD sister over this.

What a mess. Thanks again for your input.

[moglow]

I'm coming from a family where mother was not, is not and never will be accountable for anything she personally did, much less anyone else unless it was totally gossip-worthy. That said:

Do you, or others, feel that my functional brother and sister have fallen into a trap by stating that they don't know what kind of relationship they can have with my parents unless they talk to my ASPD sister about her horrible behavior?

For all any of us know your parents may have talked to sister, but to what purpose? The sister is accountable for son's behavior as long as he's a minor; if/once he's an adult HE is accountable. Either way he needs to be punished for the crime(s) he's committed. To my mind, the same goes for your parents and your sister - whatever they say or not is between them and her. However reprehensible it is, them covering up, making excuses and refusing to hold sis and her son accountable is THEIR stuff. They can draw whatever line in the sand they wish, as can all of you. If you understandably choose to not be around or allow your children around sister and hers, so be it. Press whatever charges are needed so he hopefully gets some much needed help and/or punishment. Hell, publicize it so no others are subjected to the same. Let the punishment fit the crime and may they have joy of it.

I personally wouldn't want to be around sister or her child and would just avoid for as long as I felt I needed to. Would I be visiting when sis and child[ren] are there? Probably not. If I got there and parents had decided to "surprise us" with sis and son's visiting at the same time, I'd likely go on back home. You can choose to have whatever relationship you want with your parents, same goes with your sister. Nobody has a right to interfere in it beyond whatever y'all choose between you.

For me, the first most important thing is to support and provide your niece with compassion and kindness, do what's needed to help her through this awful time. Be clear that you're firmly in her corner and will do whatever it takes on her behalf.

[realitybaths]

My sister ghosted me, after I called her out on the abuse.  So that's taken care of--as far as worrying about the children.

I guess I'll ask this directly--I have severe misgivings about telling people who they should associate with--even if they are very bad people like my sister.  Are my functional brother and sister, who are fantastic people but otherwise torn apart about this whole affair, wrong for asking other people to hold the ASPD sister accountable?  Or at least asking her the simple question--"why have you done this to your family?"

My gut feeling is that for me this is crossing a line--for others maybe not so much.  Again, I guess it comes back to what I think you were saying "you do you."

[moglow]

I have severe misgivings about telling people who they should associate with--even if they are very bad people like my sister.  Are my functional brother and sister, who are fantastic people but otherwise torn apart about this whole affair, wrong for asking other people to hold the ASPD sister accountable?  Or at least asking her the simple question--"why have you done this to your family?"

I feel much the same as you, I think. Who am I to insist/demand that other people's relationships are mine to manage, much less [if not especially] your parents? Like it or not, there are plenty of parents out there that side with "that's my child and I have to support them!" no matter what they've done or who they've hurt. They'll make excuses for and even demand same of others, making relationships conditional on that compliance. "Families have to stick together!!" doesn't mean we excuse or ignore deliberate harm to others. The perpetrator still needs punishment for their crimes, and if that means no further contact with the people he harmed, so be it. Same goes really for your sister, if she's repeatedly harmed others and offered no remorse or apology for it.

I can see where perhaps your sister is that way with her child, as horrible as what he's done he's still her child. What I don't understand is anyone insisting that everyone outside the immediate situation choose sides, as it were. It may well be she's never treated your parents as she has the rest of you and/or they've simply chosen to overlook her behavior. That doesn't mean your parents should cut anyone out or that anyone should cut them out - to me that comes down to individual choice.

To some degree I don't believe in an all for one and one for all family structure, at least not within my own. When the chips are down, we've all reached out and been there for each other, whatever personal issues we may have individually. One of my brothers doesn't talk to the other two and hasn't in years. I have relationships with all of them, and respect his silence by leaving the one brother out of conversation with the others. I don't push any of them at or away from each other, same as with mommie dearest. They get to decide their own relationships, I wouldn't want them interfering in mine either.