What do these behaviours mean?

[Rockyride]

Dealing with an ageing Mom who has just been to stay with me for one week.

I found myself shutting down more and more each day, until my breathing was shallow and I found I had less and less emotion in my face. I felt as if I was being criticised/controlled the whole time. The main thing is I felt so tired and drained with her. We went to the mall, if I didn't speak, she didn't speak –she wouldn't start conversations. Back at the house she started telling me where to put things/reorganise. I told her it's my house as politely as possible, this made her irritable. Here are some more observations I made:


-   Seemed annoyed if I started talking about something bothering me - 'when are you going to forget that?'
-   We talked about family memories, she talked over mine with the same memory from her point of view, then got annoyed when I commented on it
-   She didn't like me expressing feelings/ points of view
-   Moving slowly when I was in a hurry
-   Telling me I was doing something wrong, e.g when we played a game of cards
-       Sort of low level put downs all the time
-       Taking care of her own comfort first
-       No offer to pay for anything
-       Didn't show any enthusiasm for things I was paying for her to do, just a blank face. She even
        complained about the food at one place and got really grouchy it wasn't right, despite me paying
-       Seems tired, grouchy and shut down, but will then start bossing me around, telling me to move this
        and that
-       Doesn't seem interested in me
 -      Belittling: telling me I bumped someone/ dropped a crumb on the floor in a shopping mall when they
        had just vacuumed the carpet
 -      Questioning everything I told her to be true, eg about buses/directions. I said she needed to let me
        lead, she said I get too offended and she was just trying
        to help
 -      Not letting me express feelings, she said she feels hurt. I gave up trying but just went into medium
        chill/ stonewalling
-       Feeling that she invalidates what I say, and discredits me – even though I have literally paid for
        everything for a whole week
-       Older sister keeps calling her with boyfriend problems, who she pays for – meaning that money comes
        from me. No empathy or understanding of the money I am having to give her this week
-       I tried to give her help with a business my Mom is starting (because of my job) but she paid it no
       attention at all
-      She always looks so helpless, her body language. Blank face, even has a 'dramatic cough'
-      She always takes too much to carry to the mall, knowing I will have to carry it
-      Conversation a real strain, worse each day
-      Constantly talks about my other sister  - what she has bought/ said etc
-      Told me I looked great, but then cancelled it by saying it was because of my hair colour
       I paid for everything all week, she then said that my sister is annoyed with her for spending time
       with me, as she is jealous.

I now feel totally confused, upset, sad, and empty. I couldn't focus on anything I needed to do all week, and sort of 'packed myself away', in every way. She is my Mom and I love her but I don't understand the behaviours, it was never this bad. She says nice words sometimes, but at times won't speak if I call on the phone as her favourite show is on! I don't know how much of it is ageing as there has been a personality change over the years.
I tense up around her and turn into a different person. She can't read my behaviour, doesn't notice if I'm tired. I'm in my thirties and have never had a meaningful relationship as I have always been looking out for her.

[Boat Babe]

Hello Rockyride. In answer to your question, what this behaviour means is that your mother is dysfunctional with regard to healthy, loving relationships. A visit from a mother should, at the very least, be a pleasant one where both parties are "seen" and validated, respected and there is mutual enjoyment of each other's company. This clearly didn't happen and you are now at the point where you are scouring the internet for answers.

Firstly we know how this hurts, and that it ALWAYS hurt so here's an internet hug from a fellow traveller. Secondly, you need to start the work of unpicking the damage your mother has caused you and to work on recovery/healing. This may involve therapy and it will certainly involve educating yourself. Reading other posts here helped me a lot in the early days of my journey as well as the excellent information on the Out of the FOG website. Lastly, you need to learn how to interact with your mother so as to avoid any further pain, confusion and damage to yourself. Again, lots of useful info out there. I've learned about boundaries, which is a game changer for me.

Becoming fully aware of the situation allows you to change things for the better. You can't change her by the way but you can change how you interact and how you respond. Unfortunately you will also run into anger at what has happened to you and grief for what happened and what didn't happen. Please know that these feelings are normal and actually need to be felt in order to be processed and eventually let go of (not sure I ever will entirely but that's the goal). This is where therapy is very valuable in my opinion. 

See you on the boards.

[Cat of the Canals]

That sounds like a very unpleasant time. It's no wonder you're feeling so emotionally drained.

Have you read "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" by Lindsay Gibson? If not, I highly recommend it. It's really helpful in gaining an understanding of why our parents are this way and gives actionably steps for moving forward with that new understanding.

And in the meantime, please treat yourself with a lot of compassion. You had a very rough week and deserve some self-care.

[Rockyride]

I can only describe it that the days with her were like my emotional tank was drained to the last drop. I can feel it slowly starting to fill up again, and my own thoughts are coming back. I am normally a happy and positive person, but she drains the last drop. Does this get worse with age? I forgot to say I cleaned the house for her visit, but she made a comment as soon as she arrived/ insulted my house!

[Hilltop]

Oh gosh after reading that no wonder you felt drained.  That is a lot of tension to deal with. I can so relate to feeling the energy tank being drained.  My mother was going on holiday once and called me complaining that everyone around her was unhappy, having issues.  At the time I was happy, full of energy.  After two phones I felt drained and agitated. There was nothing I could point to as to why I felt so drained, but I remember thinking she was an emotional vampire who needed a boost before her holiday and she sucked that energy right out of me.  Kind of like a osmosis taking place.  My mother was also big on the put downs.  After reading here a little on the forum I was actually surprised at some of the similarities in the PD behaviours, you are not alone.

Self care helps a lot to restore the balance.  It really isn't easy to navigate and it's disappointing to have to deal with their behaviours, not to mention hurtful.  Take care of yourself, be compassionate towards yourself, be gentle with yourself as you work through how to navigate the relationship.

[NarcKiddo]

Does this get worse with age?

In my experience, yes and no. I am now in my mid 50s and my mother in her late 70s.

It certainly gets different. As you wake up to the reality of what you are dealing with you will change your behaviours towards her. Since you are here I would hope that you will be able to change them to be more protective of yourself. They notice you are engaging with them in a different way. And if you are better able to protect yourself it inevitably means you reduce the supply you give to them. They don't like it. My mother's first reaction was to ramp up her usual grim behaviours. But when that failed to work she started adjusting. She used to try to wield power over me. But now she is older she is playing the "waif" card much more frequently in case that works better. It doesn't but she is currently ramping that up to ever higher levels because she clearly thinks it should work.

I am sorry you had such an awful visit and am not surprised you are drained. I simply could not be around my mother for a full week and certainly could not have her in my house for that length of time. I try to prevent her from coming here at all.

[bloomie]

Rockyride - welcome! I see you are new here. I am thankful you found us, but so sorry for what you are going through.

Exhaustion in the face of an atmosphere of undermining, belittling, favoritism, entitlement and disinterest from your mother makes perfect sense. I am really sorry you experienced this kind of response to your loving welcome and generosity.

You ask if our difficult elders get worse with age... I can say that in my own experience the answer is two fold. In my own mother's case her world got smaller and smaller, thus even more egocentric (if that was possible.. and it actually was ) and I got wiser and developed a clear eyed view of the extent of her disordered world view and behaviors and the damage they did to me and those around her.

The process of getting real about how deep and difficult my mother's behaviors were was a painful time, but necessary as I began to learn how to limit the damage done to me when interacting. Which brings me to ground zero of coming Out of the FOG, which for me was learning to develop boundaries and limits in order mitigate the harm and cost to my peace of mind. 

I could not agree more with the recommendation to read Lindsay Graham's book: Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents". Graham's work has been a game changer for me. Here is a link to an interview that walks you through the characteristics of Emotionally Immature People: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCN6u2Cb0Uw

These resources, along with time spent here in this community and possibly talking with a therapist may help you address why, in your thirties, you have never had a meaningful relationship because you re looking out for a mother who seems like she is more than capable of looking out for herself.

There is never a better time than right now to begin to unpack that 'suitcase' you have stashed in the back of your closet that is stuffed to overflowing with years of confusion, hurt, false beliefs about what you 'should' and 'ought' to do - all of the ways you have submitted to the idea of being a dutiful daughter that can never do things quite right so, you keep trying harder so that you might finally live in a place of safety and consistent motherly love and kind regard from someone who means so very much to you.   

I found that one day, I finally reached the point where that suitcase couldn't hold any more meanness and unjust treatment and it exploded. Everything went everywhere. I needed help to sort through it all and feel my feelings around it all. The process was messy at times, but OH SO WORTH IT!!!!

This community is one of the places I found that has sustained and encouraged me. Cheered me on and gently pointed out the things I wasn't getting. I hope you will continue to share and reach for healing, health, your own independent, beautiful life! We are fellow travelers that truly do get it.

[Srcyu]

That must have been a very long week.
You tried so hard, full of hope probably, that this time it would all go well.
I've experienced everything that you mentioned. I could literally go through all your bullet points and translate them into the precise put downs that they all are.

But Bloomie has explained it all so beautifully with her description of the overflowing suitcase that I'll simply say - the fog is slowly starting to clear - we can see and hear you.

[Rockyride]

Black Cat, I would love it if you would go through them and translate them into put downs! That would really help. Why the put downs though, then at the same time (or from time to time), tell me she loves me? Does she know she is doing it? Thanks guys for recommending the book, Amazon have the audio book which I've been listening to in my car.

There are more behaviours I have thought of to question, and my own behaviours/feelings - maybe this is unpacking the suitcase..
 - everything I tell her I'm worried about she replies something like 'that's the same for me' or 'it's worse for me'
- sort of treats me like a romantic partner in lots of ways. The conversations she wants to have, the interaction (not physical but emotional), not like a daughter. Has another daughter she treats like a daughter but treats her totally different, and thinks that doesn't bother me (it does)
 - looking deliberately very sad (waifing?) around me, just in general, like she wants me to keep her up all the time. Also moving in a really melodramatic way, sad/slower, like she keeps the focus on her so she is the one to be taken care of. I always act more happy than usual around her (until exhausted/ drained), to try and keep her up
 - not showing much interest in my dog, or zero interest or care, then a lot of love all at once - exactly like she has always been with me actually!
 - feeling like 'the naughty kid' even now, like I was always ''too much''. Sort of having her voice in my head that I am just a bit too much
 - I have always been kind of depressed, but have not known why. I think it's because of the hot and cold, so she will show an interest in me, then show me no interest for days. She doesn't call, and I am the one who always calls her - but have stopped this week
 - Bad decisions with money. She has lots of debts and never has any money - but won't listen to any advice. She always gives money to my sister, and doesn't care that I pay for everything - she doesn't ask me if I have the money, but seems to expect it
 - She always says something about my appearance, or is 'hyper aware' of it. It's always the thing she talks about first, as if that's all I am (nothing about me as a person)
- notices if there is something wrong about my makeup, and comments on it - I never do this for her. Does this before asking anything about how I feel, as if my feelings are invisible
- Can't read my feelings, or if I am extremely tired - which even strangers could notice
 - She doesn't touch me or cuddle me like a Mama, even as an adult
 - She sort of mocks me sometimes, and I have seen her do it in front of other people (my family)
- She doesn't listen when I say I still want to be a Mom, and am sad about it - she just doesn't show any interest
- Treats me as if I don't have any needs, as if I am not her daughter, but like her other daughter (my sister) is. It's strange, it's like I am her step daughter or even her husband (I am her real daughter).
- For years she has spoken to me like I'm her therapist, or expects me to be her therapist. She is always talking about my sister and how bad things are, and that's all she will talk about in conversation. Any other conversations don't go very far, unless they are about her
 - She tells me I am strong all the time, like that means she doesn't need to behave like a Mom to me. If I tell her she is the Mom and I am the daughter (I used to remind her of this) she gets mad and says I should not need a Mama as an adult
 How can she say she loves me and loves to spend time together with all of this behaviour?

[Srcyu]

Okaaaay, I'll try and translate the ones that jump out at me the most.
*The classic swinging door of her love/hate behaviour towards you is how she keeps you coming back for more.
*She has little to no empathy which is why she's not capable of offering you support when you need it.
* Comments on your appearance are just another tool of hers to keep you in line. She can't "see" much of anything else about you.
* Treating your sister more favourably is due to her giving you both "roles" within the family. Whether or not you mind about that does not show up on her radar. She could never admit to doing anything wrong.
* Put downs in front of others is how she boosts her own self esteem.

You've worked out some of her behaviours for yourself already. As a rule of thumb, basically, it's all about her.

[Rockyride]

Thanks BlackCat, very occasionally she will say 'let's focus on you' but never knows HOW to help me. It's like when a baby cries and the Mama doesn't know how to soothe them. She never really gets in the hole with you and offers practical solutions like I would - the lack of empathy makes sense.

There are a few more things I didn't include:


- she will say she has a headache if it's a conversation topic she doesn't like. Sometimes a sudden headache from nowhere, or if she doesn't want to carry on with the conversation topic 'I have a headache/I'm tired now'
-she seems irritable if she doesn't like the conversation topic, but if I switch it to something she wants to talk about/ talk about her she is suddenly fine

- She sometimes talks like a child, or on certain words (make me feel sick)
- She kind of competes with my sister in what she wears, or tries to wear similar styles (though a big age gap). One summer she wore this very teenagery dress that was not appropriate but was insistent.

The problem is I feel guilty if I don't call her, and that she will be angry - even if she doesn't call me.

Something else, how things work with my sister, is my sister is only nice to her if my Mom is cold or cool with me  - my sister is very possessive. My sister is trapped in her own dynamic with my Mom where she tries to please her/entertain her, and also trapped in the role of a child (possible 'infantalisation'). This has been confusing over the years as my Mom was always nice with me on our own, but then cold with me if my sister called/ if my sister was there. But now my Mom is cold with me in person, so it's even more confusing! My Mom says she is shut down with my sister at home so that's why I try and be nice to her and invite her to spend time, but she's just impossible to be with now.

My Mom only spends time with each one on their own, not as a group, which I think just feeds the drama

I am definitely experiencing depressing over this. My question is WHY would a Mom hate her child?? - i.e 'love/hate'

[lkdrymom]

Your description sounded just like visits from my grandmother when I was a kid.  She was just awful and draining to be around.  Had to be the center of attention all the time. Expected money to be spent on her as it showed how important she was. The reason she was like this...is because her family let her get away with it. Pure and simple. No  one ever called her out on bad behavior ...because she would get mad! So she gets mad? what can she do to you? Let her get mad.  Get up and walk away when he throws a fit. Really think about it...what can she do to you?

[Srcyu]

The answer to 'why' is, because she can't help it. She's not capable of being a proper mother. She's too wrapped up in herself. Mine was the same. She's deceased now from old age. This type of person is manipulative, mean and selfish.
Your sister sounds like the golden child chosen for that role because there is something about her that your mother admires such as a similar personality. Your sister also knows how to communicate with her a bit like a girl at school might interact with the most popular pupil.
You are working out many things for yourself and the more you read on the subject (including what you see in here). The easier it becomes to understand what you are having to deal with.
She appears to hate you (as mine also seemed to do) because we don't fit the mould of how she wants us to be. She can't accept her child the way she is and this makes her act out in spiteful behaviours. She is consumed with the attitude of what you 'should' be saying or doing. Hope is the thing that ties us to them until we might realise that there really, is none. That's when acceptance steps in and we might start to grow away from them.

[Rockyride]

I was thinking about why she might hate me. I was a teen model when I was younger and very skinny. I just couldn't gain weight. Now I can't seem to lose weight and don't look like I did in my 20s. She said she was looking at a photo and was surprised at how I used to look. Surely Moms should love you however you look. My sister is skinny because she has an eating disorder so maybe that's why she likes her

[Cat of the Canals]

I was thinking about why she might hate me. I was a teen model when I was younger and very skinny. I just couldn't gain weight. Now I can't seem to lose weight and don't look like I did in my 20s. She said she was looking at a photo and was surprised at how I used to look. Surely Moms should love you however you look. My sister is skinny because she has an eating disorder so maybe that's why she likes her

It's very common for emotionally immature parents to choose one child as the "golden child" and one as the "scapegoat." There's often little reason for it. In this case, I could imagine the simple fact that your sister was older meant she already occupied the GC position, which meant you automatically got saddled with the scapegoat role.

It's also my opinion that the hatred these types of parents express at their own children is almost always projection. Deep down they are miserable, but they don't know how to deal with their own emotions, so they make it everyone else's problem.

None of this is about you. It's about her.

[1footouttadefog]

It sounds like your mother very much tales you for granted and feels entitled to what you have and your time and attention.

Seems like you need to step back and let her handle some of her own stuff and I certainly would not sigh up for a whole week any time soon.  Maybe a weekend or an over night.

Maybe getting together for a couple nights at a resort or at a hotel surrounded by things to do would be more neutral.

Let her run her business without your help, that way it won't be your fault if it fails.