Mamas are supposed to love us beyond anything

Miranda · July 07, 2023, 06:36:30 AM

It didn't matter what age I was I felt like a little girl hanging onto mamas apron waiting for any kind of attention as she kept dragging me around as if I wasn't hanging on or even there. I never gave up hope through my 20's my 30's, my 40's my 50's and now nearing the end of my 60's. Most days shes messaging from the nursing home telling me of her pains or the food isn't good, etc etc! I've taken her out to eat, to shop, making her needs tops. I go twice a month, that's not much but it's all I can handle. Maybe it's my age and that time is short now, but I feel the tears bubbling up when I need her to hear me, and still she never does. If my back hurts, hers is worse. If my TMJ acts up, suddenly her jaw hurts. Just the other day she said "you got all your muscle problems from me" then proceeded to moan and groan. I can't even have any issue unless it came from her or is twisted and turned into her problem. It hurts still as I round the corner away from my 60's. I believe it's a deep deep wound that starts to heal, then bursts open again and hurts again and needs tending and bandaged once again. It festers! It just never heals totally. I can learn here on the boards. I can set boundaries which I have done little by little. I see a look now that she gives me as if shes questioning why I should have any problems. It's almost a comical smirk. I see her give empathy to others but never me. Shes said to me "you really need to know what real problems are" I find myself still wanting to tell her my issues because mamas are supposed to listen, right?? I don't often and regret if if I slip up and do. I get angry and sad that I put myself in that place. She has no heart for me, I am that extension of her that I read about. I am the Scapegoat! It's a sad life altering place for a mama to put her child in. It starts at the beginning and continues a lifetime. Thanks for hearing my vent. I am trying now to put myself first, and see I am worthy. Its hard....

NarcKiddo · July 07, 2023, 07:01:31 AM

I hear you. It's tough. But sometimes a mama simply won't or simply can't. And then you need to learn how to be your own mama and look after the sad little child inside of you.

You are right to put yourself first. You are worthy and you are good.

LemonLime · July 07, 2023, 08:02:29 AM

It's so difficult and sad to understand that our mothers/fathers/siblings can't be the people we hope them to be. It's disappointing and devastating.

Like NK said, it's radical acceptance to really "get" that they won't change and that we will not be getting nurturing from them. That they are not capable.

They are not capable. When we let that sink in and begin to accept it, that's when we can take back control. It's a grief process. We must grieve it. A therapist can help you grieve it, if you specifically ask them to.

xredshoesx · July 07, 2023, 08:48:08 AM

i'm not sure when i realized my mother loved drugs more than me, but i know it was after i had been sent to live with my grandparents the first time but i wasn't in school yet.

i can only second what @NarcKiddo said- learn to be your own mama and love yourself unconditionally. it's definitely a process. i'm almost 52 and i still get those twinges of hurt when i see moments between other mothers and their children that reinforce the loss i have experienced by not having an emotionally stable mother.

moglow · July 07, 2023, 10:07:50 AM

Quotei can only second what NarcKiddo said- learn to be your own mama and love yourself unconditionally. it's definitely a process. i'm almost 52 and i still get those twinges of hurt when i see moments between other mothers and their children that reinforce the loss i have experienced by not having an emotionally stable mother.

That whole "mamas are supposed to love us" has always been my personal bugbear, along with people telling me "she's your mother, you know she loves you!" Really? Really. Not many years back several pieces finally connected for me and I told her flat out, I'm not sure I know what love is. If what she shows me is love, I'm not interested. I didn't receive much kindness, love or compassion as a child and that never changed. Mine's all about take and what I/we supposedly owe her. I recall one of her snipes "I paid my debt to you a long time ago!" I can only imagine she's talking about me having survived her home and abuse, but something hard shifted in me that day. She's all about perceived obligation, forget anything offered freely and without conditions. She doesn't have it in her.

You know what helps heal all those old wounds? Stepping back and seeing it for just the words they are. NONE of that is about you and painful as it can be at times, it's not personal. Your mother chose her path just as so many others around here, and seems determined that you trod it behind her. What can you do? Take a step back, literally. Mute her messages if you want, check them when/if you want. Respond only to and with positives [if you choose to respond at all], disregard the negative bs she dumps. Every message doesn't need a response, every question doesn't have an answer. You don't have to take it all on as yours, no matter what she may think or say. It's a process and you have to be consistent for yourself, but you can do it.

treesgrowslowly · July 07, 2023, 10:57:10 AM

Hi Miranda,

Thank you for sharing "all the feels" as the younger folks say today.

It is a process. You are in in that process. You are invested in that process. It will ebb and flow, just as you describe.

What has helped me has been to keep learning about mental health and psychology, so that I can use this information to help the inner 'little trees' to grieve for what she never got. The mommy that knows how to be a mother.

Two people I've learned a lot from are Gabor Mate and Lindsay Gibson. Lindsay Gibson recently did a podcast interview on Ten percent happier with Dan Harris. She goes into detail about the emotionally immature person (EIP), and what she says in that podcast, describes what I was up against with my mother, my entire life. An emotionally immature parent who cannot see us as "psychologically real" (Gibson's term).

It is always about them. This is not the state we wanted our mothers to be in. This is not giving us what we need. But as adults, we are free from the dependency of childhood. That is what I've learned from listening to Gabor Mate a lot over the years. As an adult, we can learn how to do something we couldn't do as a child - give our needs a name, and give ourselves permission to grieve what we didn't get in childhood.

Emotionally immature people have children. It happens every day.

Your mother is no longer responsible for your well-being. She was responsible for you when you were a child, and she failed to meet the needs that we now know are most important for healthy attachment. She was incapable of this before she ever had you. She's not going to learn how to mother you.

And this is why therapy has helped me a lot. Being the daughter of a woman with a PD is a hard road, emotionally. It involves a lot of emotion.

I would say that learning how to grieve has been the biggest challenge for my recovery. It is an intense process at times and therapists who understand grief work can really help us. You are on the right road - and I feel like this grieving for a mama is such valuable work. It would be easier to do it if our culture had more spaces to honour the work you are doing right now.

If you are curious about why she gives empathy to others and not you, I would suggest re-reading what you've read / watched over the years about the narcissist personality, or the emotionally immature parent. It isn't empathy. Narcissists can act sympathetic and concerned with others, and it is part of the PD to do so. Most narcissistic people will be found doing this with various people in their lives. They can be very charming. Note how it is usually with non-FOO.

It is confusing to a daughter of a narcissistic mother, to see her mother treat others "well". I went through this for years. Many many antics that involved my PD mother doting on others my age, and making a point of ensuring a lot of this occurred in front of me so I could witness it.

What do you think that was about?

From what I've learned so far, it was about managing the daughter's emotions. It was a manipulation. It was done, to manipulate me. It was done, because I was the one person in her life who needed her to grow up - which she was never going to do. She had to try her best to derail my attempts to get nurtured, because as a normally developing child, I was asking for - and expecting - love from her.

It was her way of telling me (little trees) "Not only can I not love you, I am going to mess with your understanding of your own need for love, so that you enter the adult world, completely baffled as to how to manage your relationships with healthy (and unhealthy) people".

In the words of another great person I learn from, Patrick Teahan, it was her way of 'setting me up' to fail. Not only could she not parent me - she was challenging my need for parenting...Not because she was masterminding a scheme to sabotage me for life - but simply out of her own immature need to shirk her responsibility. If I could be convinced that my need for nurturing is 'bad', then she is off the hook. I'll neglect my needs - and I'll focus on her needs instead. Mission accomplished.

It is a complicated process to understand, but as you work to better understand why she has treated you so poorly, you may feel more at ease when your own need for love and nurturing arises (which is a life long need). It is the need she didn't meet, way back when you were small miranda. And it is probably a need she didn't get met either. So maybe she's recruited you, to do the things her mother didn't do for her. So goes the tragedy of multi-generational patterns...

All of this is done without conscious awareness. The NPD mother messed with her daughter's navigation system, as a reaction to her daughter's demand that she grow up. The NPD mother is continuing a saga of unresolved traumas, unresolved neglect, and under-developed emotional lives. It probably extends back a few generations in most of our families.

We're the ones here now- and we have the power to put an end to this saga.

The daughter wants a mother's love... and the NPD mother has no understanding, patience and insight to give. No one gave it to her - so she doesn't have it to give her daughter either.

Little miranda and little trees desperately needed mamas who understood them, listened to them and guided them.

I am sorry we've both been through some of this very similar misery. You have a lot of contact with her right now - it is understandable that you're feeling the feels. Thank you so much for sharing your feels with us.

Sending you hugs Miranda,

From no-longer-small-Trees

Liketheducks · July 07, 2023, 12:44:35 PM

I'm so sorry you are experiencing this. I feel what you're going through. I'm responsible for holding space for my mother's feelings, her traumas, her challenges....but the reciprocal is so far fetched in our family. I'm still parentified, I think more so as I'm in my 50's and she's getting older.

And, the length she goes. In the last few days, in the "spirit of fixing our relationship" made up some story that I resented her because she once considered an abortion while she was carrying me. I don't resent her for that. Had I been in her situation, I would have aborted. But, the spirit of that conversation was not fixing the relationship. It was to remind me of my unlovability...it was to rouse a shame response in me. There was no intimacy or empathy that flows from her to me. Who does that? Why on earth would anyone think that such a conversation would be helpful or productive.
When I think of all the sacrifices I've joyfully made for my kiddo......I would never in a million years hold it over him....because he's the child and I'm the parent in our relationship. The opposite is true with my mother. I will give her grace that she never knew better, but I just can't be the doting daughter she wants me to be anymore. It all feels so disingenuous.

moglow · July 07, 2023, 03:57:44 PM

'ducks, that pisses me off for you! For her to package everything you feel up in that tight presumed resentment, as if there arent 10,000 actual cuts you're healing from? And why share that with you at all?? Mine once told me "maybe you're better off if you never have children... " what mother says that to her own child, not just once but repeatedly to drive home the message?!!

Tribe16 · July 07, 2023, 04:12:05 PM

Quote from: Miranda on July 07, 2023, 06:36:30 AMShes said to me "you really need to know what real problems are" I find myself still wanting to tell her my issues because mamas are supposed to listen, right?? I don't often and regret if if I slip up and do. I get angry and sad that I put myself in that place. She has no heart for me, I am that extension of her that I read about. I am the Scapegoat! It's a sad life altering place for a mama to put her child in. It starts at the beginning and continues a lifetime. Thanks for hearing my vent. I am trying now to put myself first, and see I am worthy. Its hard....

Miranda, I was exactly 60 years old when I learned what a Covert Narcissist was. I thought they were all braggadocio, in your face narcissists. I am so sorry for the pains you are feeling because I have been there, AM there on bad days, quietly accepting on the better days and most days somewhere in the middle. My mom told me "You've never really had any problems in your life". Really? My husband, our main breadwinner was out of work for 14 months. We were barely surviving on unemployment and my job as an Admin. Her response when I dared to raise a little whine about my situation? "There are lots worse things than unemployment" and proceeded to berate me for complaining. That day was over three years ago and I realized I could never share any difficulties with her because she would always diminish or one-up me. Then I tried to share good news with her too - stony silence, she didn't want to hear that either. Doesn't leave much to talk about but the weather.

My mom is 82 and I feel guilty that I haven't spoken to her in over 3 weeks, but the last time I was with her, something snapped inside and I thought to myself, "Why do I take this crap from her, over and over and over? I did not do anything to deserve this." She has pretty much discarded me. As a person of faith, I can love her by praying for her, being of assistance to my sister if there was an emergency of some kind... but I'm not going to take her passive aggressive criticism crap anymore. You don't have to take it either. Bless you while you navigate this, it's hard but at our age, we have surpassed our parent's emotional maturity and we really don't have to be doormats.

Miranda · July 08, 2023, 05:02:47 AM

I am so grateful for all of the responses. I'm reading them with an open heart and will take all of the much needed advice

I read your stories with tears in my eyes. There is nothing any sadder than what our mothers have done to us. I have great compassion for each of you. I do believe as you have said that they are not in any way capable of giving mama love. It seems to be a pattern and each of our stories are so much alike. I feel the pain, the sadness and oh how I wish it could have been different for all of us. Such truth and compassion here from each of you. Do you ever wonder how you have that compassion after we were all raised by narc moms? For me it was a desperate need to never hurt anyone like she did me. Saddest part is she doesn't even see it!! She has no idea what shes done. I could never abandon her. I can, however..distant from her self obsessed need to dump on me. Like you all say we don't have to take it!

Nearing my 70th year, I am not liking it and wonder where has time gone. My mother had to ask me my age

The wisdom from each of you, and the shared experiences, even though so sad, will help me and all of us heal

Thank You..Thank You!!!!

NotCryingGlitter · July 09, 2023, 11:41:53 PM

Quote from: moglow on July 07, 2023, 03:57:44 PMMine once told me "maybe you're better off if you never have children... " what mother says that to her own child, not just once but repeatedly to drive home the message?!!

"I can't wait until your children treat you the way you treat me." "You won't ever have kids." "You don't know how to take care of a baby." "No man will ever want you/put up with you." "You can't handle being a mom."

You're not alone, moglow.

Leonor · July 10, 2023, 01:15:25 AM

Just wanted to jump in and echo Trees recommendation of Dan Harris' 10 Percent Happier podcast with Lindsay Gibson - insightful and healing! Especially, for me, when explaining why our attempts to connect emotionally on any level with disordered people may actually trigger a total shut down in them. I could never figure out why, when I reached out to my mom with empathy and openness, without blame, she visibly "turned off" and walked out of my life. That is very freeing for me, after decades of wondering what I could have said or did to connect with her.

treesgrowslowly · July 14, 2023, 10:17:29 AM

Quote from: Leonor on July 10, 2023, 01:15:25 AMJust wanted to jump in and echo Trees recommendation of Dan Harris' 10 Percent Happier podcast with Lindsay Gibson - insightful and healing! Especially, for me, when explaining why our attempts to connect emotionally on any level with disordered people may actually trigger a total shut down in them. I could never figure out why, when I reached out to my mom with empathy and openness, without blame, she visibly "turned off" and walked out of my life. That is very freeing for me, after decades of wondering what I could have said or did to connect with her.

Right? I am taking in more interviews she has given over the last few years and wow. Mind blown over and over! The way she explains the plight of the emotionally maturing child paired with the emotionally immature parent...wow.

Truly a blessing to gain her insights in these videos.

I'm also feeling that emotional freedom this week as I absorb this new perspective on what transpired between myself and my narcissistic / emotionally immature parents. There was nothing I could have done to change the fact that they were not equipped for emotional intimacy with others. Even their own children.

Group hug to all of us here indeed!

Trees