Empathy please.

[DuckStar]

I've been away from the forums for a while but by god has there been some developments since my last visit. I went from 8 years of NC to reconnecting and buying my PDM a home, paying all her bills, managing her life, being her therapist, all the while having her bitch about me behind my back to my brother (totally not unexpected but still unpleasant). And all this internationally because she emigrated when I was a child for a more exciting life (despite needing money from me since I was 19 - I'm now 45).

The situation seems to go through a cycle where PDM feels okay and is in her full PD power - spiteful, dismissive, selfish, phobic, rude, etc. and so I back off. She then falls into depression/psychosis and ends up having some kind of medical drama - the last one was a dislocated shoulder. This then leads to emotional breakdown and I get back involved with daily phonecalls and extra favours. She's always a much kinder person when she's suffering like that so I don't mind this bit - it's like having contact with any other friend. Once she's recuperated she then slips back into her PD again, which is the point I'm at today and the reason why I'm writing here now. She was a dreadful mother to us, and she finds me very boring because I'm happily married and support my children, I'm sure she would rather my husband cheated on me, the family fell apart, I hated my life and gambled all my savings away!

I'm getting so weary of being her mother and of having this unwieldy teenage daughter in the form of a 78 year-old. It would be better if I had good sibling relationships but our siblinghood has been corrupted through trauma and my mother's manipulations, so it's dysfunction all the way. 

She's been told by doctors she's unwell and, deep in my heart, I wish that this 45 year old blood-tie relationship nightmare would come to its end as soon as possible. Obviously I feel guilty about wishing that on her, but at the same time I've had enough of it. Always living her ups and downs for her. Disciplining her. Giving her the benefit of the doubt.

I'm just having a moan and a rant and glad for any shared stories and empathy     

[bloomie]

DuckStar - relationships with an emotionally immature, drama seeking parent is so hard. The roller coaster ride of their ever shifting emotions and needs - the persona shifts from waif to imperious queen, can be so hard to keep your head in the face of. I am so sorry you are dealing with this.

How are you taking care of yourself in the midst of all of this with your mom?

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi DuckStar,

How would your decisions change if you knew that she's never going to change?

She's not going to learn from what you 'teach' her via discipline or offering the benefit of the doubt - as you wrote about doing. Those are teaching strategies, intended to teach people about how to better relate to us next time. They don't work in our relationships with PDs because PDs are not trying to learn how to be less PD.

45 hits us with new insights. We've now lived long enough to see that oh, we've been on this roller coaster for years with this person! As Bloomie said, it is a roller coaster ride. I do think a lot of us get to a place where we realize we need to get off that ride now.

How does it feel to consider that you might be ready for an update to how you relate to her, and the amount of support you're going to now offer her? She has had a lot of access to you for a long long time. If she knew how to appreciate you and be happy for you and the life you have with your own family, she would have shown this by now.

Trees

[DuckStar]

Hi Bloomie

Thank you for your post and thank you for the question - how am I taking care of myself. It's helpful to be able to see that I am indeed making those efforts, and to verbalise them.
Almost like a reminder of all the things I'm able to love about life despite the burden of having a relationship with a PDM mother.

I've recently graduated from artschool as a mature student and I'm starting up my own studio. Giving myself the time I need to paint and get my business up and running has been lifesaving in some ways. Artistic process is healing and helps take me away, and process what's going on.

I've also started running again which I did today to help move the funk. Trying also to get meditation into my day regularly.

Counselling has been v helpful in getting me through the last few years, and I've just started having reflexology recently which seems to be putting some of the ground back under my feet.

So there's lots going on.
I sometimes wish I'd had a loving mother who had been able to invest herself into my childhood and my dreams, but I know I'm not alone with all this. My new motto is 'blood ties are overrated' which is maybe a but cynical r jaded but it helps remind me of the friends I've made at artschool who I now consider to be my real family!

Being able to share this here is valuable and I'm grateful.

🙏🏻

DuckStar - relationships with an emotionally immature, drama seeking parent is so hard. The roller coaster ride of their ever shifting emotions and needs - the persona shifts from waif to imperious queen, can be so hard to keep your head in the face of. I am so sorry you are dealing with this.

How are you taking care of yourself in the midst of all of this with your mom?

[DuckStar]

Dear Trees

Thank you for your post and for asking these questions that I do need to address.

I know deep down that she cannot change but what she has shown me is that she's at least able to learn the kind of behaviour that I expect from her if she wants my help. I believe that she has major limitations and will never be able to truly extend herself into a two-way relationship, but I have no expectation for this.

I think this most recent issue comes from having given her extra attention following the shoulder dislocation. Now that she's recuperated I need to undo the habit we've gotten into while she was recovering of daily phonecalls. This simply cannot be sustained now that she is back to her full HPD power.

The difficult side of this coin is that I know she's a vulnerable woman, now 78 even more so than in her 40s. I'm the only child out of 4 who has visited her in the last 20 years and I'm the only one who was willing to buy her a home. Objectively speaking I believe she needs help and unconditional love.

I'm getting used to allowing her to go through her tantrums without feeling like I have to fix it. Afterall an hour later she seemingly doesn't seem to even remember what happened. What's hard is when she has a legitimate medical problem that any 78 year old might have, I do feel that it's right to give her support.

Moving forwards from this shoulder dislocation, I need to withdraw contact gradually to get back to several phonecalls per month. I believe that's the only way I can manage this. She's in the latter stages of her life and so NC at this point, as much I would wish for it, feels simply impossible as I feel even she has a right to have my love before she eventually dies.

Hi DuckStar,

How would your decisions change if you knew that she's never going to change?

She's not going to learn from what you 'teach' her via discipline or offering the benefit of the doubt - as you wrote about doing. Those are teaching strategies, intended to teach people about how to better relate to us next time. They don't work in our relationships with PDs because PDs are not trying to learn how to be less PD.

45 hits us with new insights. We've now lived long enough to see that oh, we've been on this roller coaster for years with this person! As Bloomie said, it is a roller coaster ride. I do think a lot of us get to a place where we realize we need to get off that ride now.

How does it feel to consider that you might be ready for an update to how you relate to her, and the amount of support you're going to now offer her? She has had a lot of access to you for a long long time. If she knew how to appreciate you and be happy for you and the life you have with your own family, she would have shown this by now.

Trees

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi DuckStar,

I just listened to two interviews with Lindsay Gibson, who wrote the book Adult children of Emotionally Immature Parents.

The interviews are free on the podcast "10 per cent happier" by Dan Harris.

I would highly highly recommend them to you. In each interview, Gibson lays out how to stay in contact with an emotionally immature person/parent. She provides really clear advice on how to set your goal for each interaction. I found it so helpful to listen to her explain her findings on this topic.

Would be curious to hear what you think of her perspective. She does not push people to estrange / go NC with parents and I think you'll find her advice helpful as what you describe here is a goal of keeping contact with your mom while maintaining your boundaries.

Best to you,

Trees

[DuckStar]

Thank you so much for this Trees 🙏🏻 I'll be checking that out.

That's really the issue - because of her age and ill-health I can't leave her completely alone. I could be in for a long-haul depending on how long she holds out.

Today I've taken a step back from communication and it's good to have a breather and gain my sense of self back. 

Hi DuckStar,

I just listened to two interviews with Lindsay Gibson, who wrote the book Adult children of Emotionally Immature Parents.

The interviews are free on the podcast "10 per cent happier" by Dan Harris.

I would highly highly recommend them to you. In each interview, Gibson lays out how to stay in contact with an emotionally immature person/parent. She provides really clear advice on how to set your goal for each interaction. I found it so helpful to listen to her explain her findings on this topic.

Would be curious to hear what you think of her perspective. She does not push people to estrange / go NC with parents and I think you'll find her advice helpful as what you describe here is a goal of keeping contact with your mom while maintaining your boundaries.

Best to you,

Trees

[DuckStar]

Hi again Trees, and thank you for the recommendation. I listened to the most recent PodCast with Lindsay Gibson - the one from this month - and she's a good person to turn to. I love the concept of emotional immaturity and maturity, it seems to really help put things into perspective. For example I could take out the sting from something dHPDm said the other day because I can see how she needs to cook up drama as a way to avoid accessing her feelings (because of the immaturity). I also like how LG is so clear when she describes things that can otherwise seem confusing and impossible. Because I'm keen to get more guidance from her I've now started listening to her book about being an adult child of emotionally immature parents. I reckon it'll be helpful not only in understanding my mother and my childhood, but also the longer lasting impacts that I might be able to change going forwards as a mother myself.

Thank you again. Compared to when I started this thread just the other day I already feel my shoelaces are tied back up and the battery replaced in my torch