Silent treatment and then NC

[Hilltop]

I feel like I haven't been on the forum for a long time.  I reached a good place of a mainly text relationship with my mother and life went on. Until 24 hours ago. I needed minor surgery earlier last week, I didn't initially tell my mother as she likes to gossip.  Then she texted asking if I was free to talk so I said yes as I was recovering. After I told her the info I didn't hear from her again for a week and then it was a simple text just wanting to clarify details of the recovery.  I guess I was in pain and felt used. I bit.

This led to an overly sugary text message how apparently I had decided not to visit her anymore and all she could do was respect my wishes. I engaged and told her I had not stated my wishes to her at any point and that I had been supportive of her visiting me if she chose to but she herself had not bothered.  The last time I saw her was in 2019 so I pointed out we both had not bothered.  I was honest and said I was reluctant to see her in person as she insults me and she can do that but I don't need to make myself available for it.  I then gave two examples of the last two times I had visited her in person and what she had said. She went silent.  No response.

I waited till the next day when I called out the silent treatment.  Nothing.  I further stated how damaging this is to relationships. No response.  I then as a last resort asked did she want to go to counselling as this is a long standing issue.  Still nothing.  I then told her I was done, this was unhealthy, she could have simply said she needed time to digest what was said however she was doing the silent treatment.  I said I was blocking her number and will not be in further contact. Could she respect that boundary.

Before I had time to block she straight away replied saying why couldn't I forget the past and move on. Everyone has demons, she loves me and there if I need her and she will go to counselling if I think it will help.  I blocked her without responding.

The thing is once again no apology or acknowledgment of anything I said.  Just can we ignore and move on. I had made a decision to not react with her so I know I have not brought up any issues with her since at least 2016/2017.  Despite that she still insults me when talking in person and its up to me to then deal with that. There have been long standing issues of triangulation, smear campaigns and my relationship with my sister is none existent including all relationships with nieces and nephews. I asked not to talk about my sister but you guessed it that is ignored and I hear about them seeing each other while I am essentially shunned from family life.  This has taken a toll on me and whilst I have pretended I am ok it has hurt me a great deal.  Of course there has never been a conversation outlining anything I have done or said to warrant this exclusion and anytime I ask or bring it up its taken as me being too demanding and sensitive.  I have not had a response or apology for anything she has ever said or done.  She mostly blames me for any issues or problems.

Now I seemed to have reacted myself into a NC.  I firstly feel a sense of relief. These issues have plagued my whole life and I am yet to be ok with the situation with my parents.  I reached a place of pretending with them that nothing got to me but I'm exhausted.  It has seeped into every part of my life and I have been unable to find a way to deal with my parents and not take it personally. I have not been able to visit and shrug off any insults. I cant seem to let it go or maybe more to the point its never ending, just a semi constant dripping of small slights forever ongoing.  Its fine, then not fine and I am tense always on guard.  Yet I didn't see this coming, I hurtled toward it unable to stop myself.  In a small way I look forward to the peace of not having to worry what the next hurt will be. Even hearing how they are car shopping for my sister stirs up pain.

Last year I was in a really good place although the relationship was text only.  My mother wanted to reintroduce phone calls and here we are, again, in drama.  But is a relationship worth it if its only safe with text? I don't think so.

Any thoughts?

[bloomie]

Hi Hilltop! Thankful you are here when you need some shoring up and support.

I have some thoughts... what if you have reached a saturation point with all of the subterranean, impending doom, trying to have a relationship with someone who is not trustworthy stuff? What if you responded to your mother knowing it might lead to this because deep in your knower you know you need a break?

What if you are tired of being sick and tired and needed a sign, a moment, a clear exchange that you can point to and say: "that was my moment when I accepted what I cannot change, changed what I could and broke free"?

That looks different for each of us, but dear Hilltop this is the time to process and truly begin to heal. Use it. Get whatever you need in terms of support around you and begin to redirect the energy that has been zapped and used up by people who do not seem to have the capacity to show genuine, familial, care and concern for your relationship, to your own mind, body, soul and recovery.

If your mother is anything like mine... acknowledgment and apologies are not coming. Enmeshment and toxic family dynamics are set in cement and not changing.

Now I seemed to have reacted myself into a NC.  I firstly feel a sense of relief. These issues have plagued my whole life and I am yet to be ok with the situation with my parents.  I reached a place of pretending with them that nothing got to me but I'm exhausted.  It has seeped into every part of my life and I have been unable to find a way to deal with my parents and not take it personally. I have not been able to visit and shrug off any insults. I cant seem to let it go or maybe more to the point its never ending, just a semi constant dripping of small slights forever ongoing.  Its fine, then not fine and I am tense always on guard.  Yet I didn't see this coming, I hurtled toward it unable to stop myself.  In a small way I look forward to the peace of not having to worry what the next hurt will be. Even hearing how they are car shopping for my sister stirs up pain.

What would your life be like if you didn't know about the car shopping, the triangulation, didn't have to endure the slights - big and small? What if there was enough time and distance from all of this for you to find your feet and move forward without the specter of all of this?

This is your time! Use it wisely! And keep coming back and sharing as you are able. It helps lighten a heavy load. Hugs to you as you rest, heal, recover, and move forward!

[moglow]

I have thoughts, lots of them actually. Allow me to break them down for you:

1. After I told her the info I didn't hear from her again for a week and then it was a simple text just wanting to clarify details of the recovery.  I guess I was in pain and felt used. I bit.

Clarifying details of recovery??? Mother of God, can she offer no compassion, empathy?? Likely for gossiping as you'd already mentioned she's known for? Noted.

2. This led to an overly sugary text message how apparently I had decided not to visit her anymore and all she could do was respect my wishes.

While you're in recovery. In pain. Struggling and vulnerable. Dredging old ditches as if you have strength, energy or interest in that.

3. I engaged and told her I had not stated my wishes to her at any point and that I had been supportive of her visiting me if she chose to but she herself had not bothered.  The last time I saw her was in 2019 so I pointed out we both had not bothered.  I was honest and said I was reluctant to see her in person as she insults me and she can do that but I don't need to make myself available for it.  I then gave two examples of the last two times I had visited her in person and what she had said. She went silent.  No response.

Okay. She had no viable argument and knows it. Nothing she could point to as her doing the right thing or even being a decent person, much less parent.

4. I waited till the next day when I called out the silent treatment.  Nothing.  I further stated how damaging this is to relationships. No response.  I then as a last resort asked did she want to go to counselling as this is a long standing issue.  Still nothing. 

Now I'm just pissed off for you. You're trying here, trying to reach her on some level she will accept.

5. I then told her I was done, this was unhealthy, she could have simply said she needed time to digest what was said however she was doing the silent treatment.  I said I was blocking her number and will not be in further contact. Could she respect that boundary.

Before I had time to block she straight away replied saying why couldn't I forget the past and move on. Everyone has demons, she loves me and there if I need her and she will go to counselling if I think it will help.  I blocked her without responding.

"If you think it will help ..." That wasn't the question. It would help if she'd TALK to you like a normal person! It's not "the past" that's the problem, but the continuing behavior. It's not a one-off that you simply move past as a random lack of consideration or momentary rudeness.
***

Hilltop, none of that seems reaction on your part - they're logical reasonable responses to her continued silence. It appears -as with mine- that confronting with their treatment of you isn't allowed. Okay, I get it, the uber powerful parent image and all that, they're offended when told that No, it ISN'T all right and we need to do things differently. But really, we're long since adults and can't change those habits? It's okay to talk about you behind your back but not with you, actually work through to something better? Then again, would you want to be part of that gossipmongering that appears to take place between her and your sister? Rhetorical question, but really. Not much appeal, that.

I've also not visited or seen mine in the past few years, 3-4 not sure which, and I have no plans to see her. If memory serves that last visit was awkward and uncomfortable, and once again my brother and I were scrambling for something, anything to talk about with her. We resorted to telling childhood tales since we all at least had that in common but no. [We realized later the woman wasn't around much back them either, probably had not one clue of or interest in what we did or how we occupied our time.] It was civil and that's all you can say for it. She was having a "good" day and had attention for a few hours. But next day she was texting me with complaints about things that were said, and what did I mean by xyz ... I've noped out of further visits. No desire to drive a couple of hours to be picked apart later. I've been to see brother who lives nearby and neither of us suggested stopping to see her while I was there. She and I had a few really hard headbutting sessions since, All the while throwing ancient history in my face, dredging slime better left alone, baseless accusations and insults. Nothing that shows she has any interest in being a mother or having any relationship with me at all. No warmth, interest, kindness even, so I backed off even more.

I say all that because I see similarities between ours - lack of interest in real relationship, sharing our lives, even being pleasant. I think all of us have a cutoff or saturation point, and we fight that with everything we have. We think we "should" or "have to" or are obligated because they're family - but are we also obligated to take on all the venom and bile as if it's ours? As a counselor once asked me: If anyone else, say a friend treated you the way she does, what would you do? Well, they wouldn't be my friend! I wouldn't have anything to do with them, find other places to be and other people to be with. She just sat and looked at me, gave me time for it to sink in what I'd said. Then she asked why mommie dearest gets a pass, why she's allowed to treat me that way and I keep going back for it. More - why did I believe or trust anything she had to say, given our history. I didn't have any reasonable answer but it still makes me stop and think.

It's a process, Hilltop, finding our voice and learning to say No More. It's not easy or painless, but it sure is more peaceful on this side. Wishing you more peace every day.

[Cat of the Canals]

Now I seemed to have reacted myself into a NC. 

I think sometimes what feels like a reaction is actually the healed part of ourselves standing up for the first time and saying, "I won't accept any more of this." It feels out of the blue/reactionary/impulsive because we've never done it before or don't know consciously why we're doing it in the moment, but it's actually coming from a place of deep emotional intelligence that knows you are being harmed and has leapt into self-protection mode.

If you look back through the many "what led to you going NC" type posts on this board, very few NCs are premeditated. There is almost always a final interaction or conversation that made the person realize fully how unhealthy the relationship is or how unproductive their efforts to establish boundaries had been or how they just couldn't bear prolonged "death of a thousand paper cuts" for one second longer and had to get out for their own mental (and sometimes physical) health. And as a result, NC just seemed to "happen."

Also, NC doesn't have to be permanent. Give yourself a much needed break and then reassess.

[Hilltop]

Thanks Bloomie, yes I did feel like maybe I should have come back to the forum when spiralling but here now. I didn't think about a saturation point but that feels exactly like what this is.  Earlier in the week on the phone my mother had told me how her friend was going with illness and another neighbour after a death and she sends them inspirational messages each day which they appreciate.  She said one asked to be sent them. I didn't ask to be included but was surprised when she didn't text to say how's recovery going.  I checked in with my husband who said it was weird. It's my disappointment so I tried to let it go. Then after a week I get a message asking a question. I reply and say a few other things and she says 'great, well hope you are feeling better'. End of conversation and at this point I felt used, she needed the info when talking, gossiping but nothing more than that.  Whether its intentional or not, as hey the covert types can be creative with their put downs, there was something in this exchange which just rattled me. Then when she blamed me and I was done.

I agree apologies and acknowledgment will not be coming. I think part of the relief is now having time and energy without this distracting me.  Without the ongoing slights.

My nieces are headed towards their 20's and may not marry but it had crossed my mind recently that if there was a wedding down the track and I was excluded that it would hurt big time. My mother sees them, tells me about it and what they are up to with no consideration how hurtful the shunning has been.  Something happened which made me consider those future occasions but in all honesty I am tired and the thought of not having to endure any more brings me a lot of relief.  Thank you.

[Hilltop]

Moglow thank you. Sorry you have had similar experiences, it isn't easy.  You expressed it so well, its not the past its continuing behaviour, a pattern. I have no idea what demons are in play as there is no conversation. I actually said to her that she will talk to everyone but me - I know she talks to others from rare moments where my sister has let me know how disappointed she is with me but at the same time my mother was acting like nothing was wrong with her and my relationship.  A couple of other comments from people as well which is how I realised smear campaigns were happening.  Rare moments but ... its also frustrating as it will be fine, fine, fine, off, fine, fine, off, fine, fine, fine, fine, fine, off. Its unsettling.

I do think there is a lack of interest in a real relationship. I do think its interesting that once I dropped the rope and didn't visit, visits didn't happen. Any time she suggested coming to see me I was supportive and then silence. The lack of effort was on both sides. However this was the third time she told me it was my wishes and my choice and life is short so she can only respect my wishes blah blah.  This time I set the record straight. I'm happy to own my stuff but she can own her choices.

In truth no I wouldn't willingly choose this relationship. There has been a constant slight pushing away from her over our lifetime, in turn I pull away or pull together to try to understand, its simply very unhealthy. Ideally I would like to be in a place of not caring but being on the outer in the family and reaching a place of acceptance long term is not something I have been able to achieve.  Thanks for your kind words.

[Hilltop]

Hey Cat of the Canals, thank you for your response. Its interesting that you write 'or how unproductive their efforts to establish boundaries had been'.  Yep firm boundaries in place, which is exhausting to maintain, and bam those moments still occur. Maybe my mother has a right to be miffed I didn't tell her prior about the surgery, she doesn't have to text well wishes and yet any effort I have made doesn't matter, we end up in this place where it is fine as long as I stay quiet and let her say and do as she likes. If I speak up its immediately, can't you let this go. Same old, same old.  Not once has it occurred to her that can't she not insult.

Despite my boundaries when my mother wanted to reintroduce phone calls against my better judgement I allowed it. I previously just gave up phoning her, I never put that boundary in place verbally but when the visits stopped eventually she wanted phone calls. Interestingly things went so well with text as she never puts insults in writing. Once the phone calls resumed I have struggled, although I didn't see it at first.  In thinking more about this I see that she needs physical visits or calls for the subtle digs which are hard to call out but are there.  Most of the time its fine until its not.

Its hard to define but telling me how she sends her friends daily inspirational quotes only to then immediately ignore me for a week after surgery is one of those subtle moments which can't be called out but leaves me reeling, hurt and angry.  I see it as a game and I don't see the chess pieces moving until later when I am nursing my wounds old and new. I speak up its easy to deny. Then to reach out simply for info and a nothing exchange, to me felt so blatant.

Perhaps self protection did step in. Perhaps there is a weariness that I cant keep going. I am actually happy with everything I did say, for the first time I actually said everything I needed to say, that part is like a weight lifted off me. I am relieved for NC at the moment. I don't plan on making any firm decisions regarding the future but I do think I need time and space to fully heal and I plan on taking that time.  Previously I have felt the need to rush back to contact but this feels different. I see how it is affecting my overall life and I cant do this alone. If they choose to continue their pattern of behaviour I simply cant keep doing it. So yeah NC felt like it just happened but maybe not. 

[Hilltop]

So after a moment to pause I have decided to move forward with my healing. My email is still open to my mother, everything else is blocked.  Moving forward I will resume a relationship if she contacts and takes accountability for her actions. I gave her clear concise examples of insults she had given which were clear, blatant and direct, there was no mistaking they were insults.  So far she has said nothing, just can we move on.  Not even an apology which quite frankly is a normal healthy response if you hurt someone intentionally or not. She has shown no care or thought for how her words have impacted me.  I have enquired if I have hurt her which she has remained silent.

At this point there needs to be accountability or conversation or I am resolved to remove myself. I didn't want to have this estrangement but I guess I also don't want to deal with ongoing issues.

It appears its fine for my sister to have a lifelong estrangement with me, my dads brother to have a lifelong estrangement with him, dad's sister to be estranged, my husband to have a lifelong estrangement with his brother and husbands brother to have a lifelong estrangement with inlaws. Hey not healthy but it saps your energy and this time is vital.

The only thing I truly want to do is find that inner peace and freedom and fill my time with things that matter. That enrich my life, that brings joy. I cant fix this on my own, I didn't cause it on my own, I have made an effort for change and I will now step back and let them decide if the effort is worth it to them. Although I doubt it, they would have done it by now if it was in them. That effort is two words 'I'm sorry'.  That's all I ask and if they cannot give that after a lifetime of slights I am resolved and ok with keeping my distance. I know deep in my heart I tried. Its time for me to build a healthier life for myself.

I get that people say its just them, you just have to accept them the way they are but somehow it ends up being me always giving, bending and somehow they never have to bend and say sorry. Others just have to move on and forget about it. Not this time.  Mothers sugary I'll respect your wishes, ok now respect them. Somehow I think being cut off entirely from supply was not in her plan.  She can deal with it. And who is she going to smear me to, all the family relationships are broken, so much damage, so preventable.  Also not my problem, not my circus.

[Hilltop]

So she has forwarded the text to my husband to pass on to me.  He said at least she is open to counselling.  Yes open once I shut it all down. And would she just deflect in therapy.

In all honesty I told him it angers me that she would go to therapy over saying I'm sorry. All that time, effort, emotion, cost instead of I'm sorry.

The one thing about all the relationships that I see that are estranged is that there is no ongoing circle. Round and round and round. The people are free to get on with their life. Only society tells us to hang on. Keep trying.

I am sticking with NC. Time to heal and ensure I get rid of any fleas picked up along the way.  At least husband is supportive of that.

[Cat of the Canals]

Sorry, but what right does she have to be miffed about who you did or did not tell about your surgery? It's YOUR life. YOUR private health matters. It had, quite literally, nothing to do with her.

BTW, I hemmed and hawed about not wanting to tell my PDmom or PDmil before I had surgery. I finally did, and they were STILL MIFFED. MIL complained she felt "out of the loop." I guess the suggestion was that we were supposed to call her up the moment I knew and give her all the details for gossip fodder. My own mother was silent for a loooooong time and then said, "Well... thanks for telling us, I guess." For her the problem is that this shatters the illusion that we have a close relationship.      

You're always damned if you do, damned if you don't. If it wasn't the surgery, it would have been something else. And the real issue here is that she feels entitled to intimate details about your life all while making actual intimacy impossible with her crappy behavior. If she was capable of even a shred of self-reflection, she might wonder, "Was there possibly some reason Hilltop didn't tell me about her surgery?" which might lead to the realization that maybe, JUST MAYBE, some behavior of hers in the past has led to you not feeling comfortable relying on her for support. Hmmm, could it be? But that's nonPD-thinking, and we're not talking about nons.

[Hilltop]

I agree Cats.  I think the thing that set me off was her telling me about how she sends supportive messages to friends and then bam I hear nothing from her.  A week later when I did hear something it was literally 'hey how are you.  Was it x weeks or y weeks for your recovery'.  Then after my reply which included some other stuff she simply said 'great, thanks.  hope you are recovering.'  Didn't even enquire about the other stuff mentioned, stuff which was fun and light hearted.  Its easy to deny, easy to pretend its an over reaction unless you have that long standing complicated relationship with that person. Its those little games that are played or what feel like games.

It was just this non caring, dismissiveness which has been a long standing theme. Last major surgery I had my father didn't even bother to come to the hospital to visit, even when it was a week long recovery in hospital.  Though mum did.  So yes there are some moments of support with a ton of poo thrown in as well.

I am more comfortable with the idea of NC now, after the initial shock of it.  Honestly it was like something else took over and did it. However now I've heard about saturation point it makes complete sense and the feeling of relief is constant even during the small moments of WTF.

[mary_poppins]

Hilltop,

No, I don't think that was a relationship you had with your mother. She insulted you often, did you do that to her? Then, it was a one way relationship. You treated her nicely, while she treated you terribly. How fair is that?

I've read 'Adult children of emotionally immature parents' and there, the author says we need to learn how to have mature relationships. She even gives examples of actions and habits of mature people and what to watch out in ourselves when it comes to emotional immaturity. We are very used to have one-way relationships, but, healthy people are not used to that. They're used to having equal relationships.
NPDs are not emotionally mature and teach us how to have inbalanced relationships. She goes on saying that we are so used to being treated badly that, we later learn to like being treated this way and seek the comfort of emotionally immature people. We also learn that it is all we can do (being in immature relationships) and all we deserve.

It is very sad but that's the brainwashing.
You have proved that it is possible to say 'no' to the programming and cut ties with these people.
I wish you continue your healing and enjoy NC in your own terms.

[Hilltop]

Hey Mary Poppins, so true what you wrote about being conditioned to unhealthy behaviours in relationships. I got a lot from re-reading that book. At this stage I am more interested in watching my habits and making sure I am healthy.  This is different for me as I was so accustomed to focus on them and their behaviour feeling powerless in the relationship and so scared of when the next hurt was coming.

I still just feel relief and mostly calm.  I have a heap of things I now want to do and feel I have the energy for now.  The one thing I am sure of now is that I have no tolerance for those types of people.  Life is too precious to waste on that type of baggage.