How Late is Too Late? Out & Finding I've Been Surrounded by NPDs for Years.

[Phoenix18]

Where to start? I'm nearly 60 and just coming Out of the FOG.

I've wondered why I have so many chronic health problems when nobody else around me does, and why I'm so bone-crushingly, soul-numbingly exhausted all the time. Why I've come to dread having anything to do with people in general. And most of all why I feel so emotionally numb. Just going through the motions, and only the ones I have to.

Through much study, soul searching and talking with my sister and adult kids, I've come to realize over the last few months that some things I've suspected are real, and found others I didn't suspect. The first thing I'm asking myself is: Is it too late at my age and after all these years to do anything about it? Would it really be worth the upheaval to try extricating myself from any of it?

I don't know where to post exactly because, as I mentioned in the title - I am surrounded by people I think of as emotional vampires.

Husband (61) was diagnosed Histrionic PD about 20 years ago (we've been married 37 years). I read what I could find at the time (not much), and figured out how to work with it. We have had lots of counseling and many ups & downs - stories to sort out another time. Dr. Ramani's excellent video on levels of narcissism and the low-level NPD's overlap with HPD summed up the conclusion I have come to on my own: a relationship with one is possible and can even be fun at times, as long as your expectations line up with reality and you can get some needs met elsewhere. It's workable but not very fulfilling. I've stayed in it for many reasons; I'll want to examine those more closely with some input at a later time.

MIL (81) checks every box on every list I've read for Covert Narcissistic PD. I won't go into details in this post on exactly how she checks the boxes; I'm sure all of you have dealt with similar anyway. She remains undiagnosed of course, as she does not think anything is wrong with her. I have put up with her shennanigans for 41 years now, with H passively going along with most of it, not standing up to her or protecting me from her. The worst of it was when we lived near her and our kids were all still at home. We have since moved far away, our kids have grown, and she has been tormenting him for not calling her enough, among other things, which has caused him to start seeing her for what she is. Due to some bad behavior on her part, I went Very Low Contact (VLC?) with her a couple years ago, without knowing there was a name for it. He went No Contact for a few months, and currently is back to calling her once a week. More on that later.

My Own Mother (81), I have just come to realize (after spending time with my sister and my mother separately, recently), is also an undiagnosed Covert Narcissist - or is at least somewhere on the continuum; she checks quite a few boxes, though not all (to my knowledge; just figuring this out). The lightbulb came on during both visits that my sister is the Scape Goat, my brother is the Golden Child, and I am the Helper Child. It hit me like a ton of bricks! Numerous things my mother said during our time together confirmed it. I'm gobsmacked!!!

My Sister (52) has struggled with depression for years, tried to commit suicide several years ago, and during her time in the hospital was diagnosed Bipolar. She has a great sense of humor and manages to make all of this sound funny. A coping mechanism to be sure. We had a very good extended visit recently and spent a lot of time going over things from our child-hoods, which we both percieved quite differently. It was enlightening.

Of my three adult kids: One is diagnosed Asperger's, another has diagnosed depression, and the third has diagnosed depression, dysphoria and is transitioning to the other gender. I do have good relationships with all three of them. Husband's relationship with them all is ok, though quite shallow. My immediate problem regarding them is how much to talk to them about all this stuff I'm just now dealing with, how much it has influenced them, how it concerns them now, etc... Because I realize I have not had healthy dealings in all my other relationships, it has most certainly extended to them!

I myself struggle with health problems, physical exhaustion, and a lack of any sort of drive to do anything any more. My personality type is INFJ with an emphasis on the Introverted. I really don't want to deal with any of this. I just want to sit in a sunny spot and read or play a computer game to pass the time. For all I know, I may have a PD! I'm apparently an enabler at the very least.

Oh, and my 15 year old dog just died; he was the only "person" in my life who brought comfort instead of chaos.

So, I found my way here, and am hoping to work through some things. Not sure really where to post first!

[IsleOfSong]

Welcome, Phoenix. I am truly sorry that you've had to endure all of that. I'm a fellow INFJ who's realizing that my life has been impacted substantially by several (undiagnosed but possibly) PD people. As you untangle it all, I hope you find this community to be as useful as I have found it to be.

[notrightinthehead]

Welcome!

First of all - it is not too late. It might be cumbersome, yes, and reading or playing computer games might be much preferable to the hard work you are embarking on. But you are not alone on this journey, you have found a community here of fellow travelers.

Your exhaustion might stem from the give give give you seem to be doing and no source to replenish your well. So that could be the next step you are taking. You study the Toolbox and begin to implement the strategies suitable for your situation. Be patient with yourself, it takes some time to get good at medium chill, boundaries, and grey rock.
A book I found very helpful "Stop Caretaking the Borderline/Narcissist" by Fjelstad and books on how to implement boundaries. I read one by Townsend and Cloud, but that was quite old.

I think you have come to the point where you realize, you cannot change others, you however, can change yourself. You can change how you look after yourself, how you can treat yourself with more kindness and respect, how you can change the way you relate to others. It is such an exciting and rewarding journey of growth, with setbacks and failures of course, and also with successes and obstacles overcome. I am glad you joined us!

[Srcyu]

Your poor sweet dog, who shared your life for 15 years had to leave you very recently. That's sad and your heart and soul need time to process what has just happened. If sitting quietly in the sun helps, then sit in the sun and gently remember your lovely pet.

You're wondering if it's too late to begin coming Out of the FOG.  It's not, otherwise you wouldn't have found your way here. I suggest taking it slowly. It sounds like you currently have nothing more to give. Saturation point has been reached..

[Phoenix18]

Thank you for your kind words 
Isle, I'll be watching your posts to learn how to deal with more than one of 'em at a time.
Notright, it's encouraging to hear it's not too late. Thank you!
BlackCat, you have no idea how much I appreciated your empathy.

I've been reading a lot here...

I'm finding it quite amazing to be on a message board with such nice people. It's quite refreshing!

[Srcyu]

It is refreshing here. Quite a lot different to some groups I've previously joined elsewhere.
The intention here is to help, there is no other motive.
I too recently lost a pet. I sit in the garden and remember her, it helps. 

[Truthseeker1]

Welcome Phoenix! I am so glad you found us. It's not too late. I am about your age and have just recently discovered what has been going on as well.   The forum is wonderful. I felt like I was the only one. I really considered myself defective. I could not understand why I could not make things work in my marriage with uNbpdw. Undiagnosed, narcissistic, borderline, personality, wife incase you haven't found the acronyms yet. Took me a few days to find them. We have been together since 1989. 4 Kids are all out of the house. Now that it's just us I thought she would settle down. When things didn't get better I new something abnormal was happening.  Eventually saw a Therapist and he had me read the book Stop walking on eggshells. 💡!!!
My therapist also recommended this forum. The forum is wonderful to reassure you that you are not alone. Others here will understand you and what you are going through when others can't comprehend what you are dealing with. Post your stuff and hear what others have to say. They can recommend some good reads as well. The more you understand the better you will be able to disconnect from the bad behaviors and see them for what they are.  You can't change them but if you see them for what they are, their influence on you will be totally different and your reaction will be different.
It's not too late. Infact if you bury your head in the sand then nothing changes. The psychological pain will continue to manifest in your physical condition.  Glad you are here and I look forward to hearing more of your story and watching you grow strong.

[LemonLime]

Proud of you, Phoenix.
If I can just add a plug for EMDR here.  I'm currently getting EMDR for what my therapist calls "little T".  Some people call big traumas like physical or sexual abuse or war trauma or the like "Big T".  And they call things like the pervasive gaslighting and projection that my sib has done to me "Little T".  If that makes sense.

EMDR is now the treatment-of-choice for soldiers suffering from PTSD, and the Veteran's Administration pays for EMDR treatment.  It is now widely recognized as the first-line treatment for many issues.  What I didn't know is that it works for anxiety/depression and certainly is very helpful in general for the types of stresses we have endured living with PDs.   

I do mine online with a certified therapist who herself was a child of a Nmom and was married to a N for decades.  It costs $150 for a 45-minute session and we have done 3 sessions so far.  I feel a weight lifted off my shoulders.  I sleep better.  It's not top-of-mind for me anymore.  I feel a distance from the memories of PD-abuse.  I feel more myself and have more energy.  Yes, I still think about my sib.  But I care less about the subject.  That's good for me and good for my marriage and my kids and my other healthy friendships.