I genuinely don't know what to do

[Generic_Username]

So the emotions are all very fresh, I'm sure I'll sound like I'm catastrophising.

I've posted a fair bit recently here is the beginning.

We've just had a message via solicitors that NM and eD are not going to appeal, which should be amazing news and I should be feeling great. But I don't. Yes, we don't have the courts hanging over us at the moment but there's no guarantee that the whole process won't start again whenever something happens that they're not happy with.

At court, we agreed non-contact contact with the children. IE. Send letters and small gifts on birthdays and Christmas, and we will send a small update about the children quarterly. This is more than I would like, but we have to appear reasonable to the courts... Well in the interest of good faith, we have sent the updates and a photo of each child. So the reply comes asking for more. Asking for school reports, school photos, a more "pen-pal" style contact where the children are encouraged and assisted in replying to letters and that they can then reply back. It's been a week and the demands are already coming!!! 

The control of this situation still very much feels like it's with them.

They asked for family therapy, I said no but they should seek therapy themselves. The reply came - "we are in therapy to deal with our loss (of the grandchildren)." Apparently it was very hurtful to them to be referred to as abusers - not that the episodes I described in the court proceedings were literally abusive. Apparently I "remembered the events of her childhood wrong".

I pointed out that this started because we asked for space, that wasn't respected. Within 4 weeks we had a letter from a solicitor. The reply came - "it is their right to seek legal counsel. Also, what is the timeframe for space? When will we see the children?" WTF am I supposed to say to that?! How can I give a timeframe on healing???

I don't understand why I'm not allowed to say NEVER. Why can't I just say I never want to see you again? As soon as I do, I'm certain the court letters will come back. How do I escape this? I feel trapped and helpless.

[moglow]

You sent the agreed upon "contact" so there's not really discussion to be had here. They can talk to every attorney they want, you're in compliance. You don't have to extend more and honestly I don't see any reason to not block them until time for next update. I know, easy for me to say since I'm not there in it right?

My short answer: I don't have a timeline and have asked to be left alone. You failed to do even that much. I don't want or need regular contact, I thought that was clear. I provided an update for my children as I agreed to do, and that's all I have for you at this point. Pushing for "more" while disregarding me only pushes me further away.

[moglow]

I'm hard headed, I'll admit. I don't understand why you doing as promised immediately provokes more of what you asked to NOT have. That old, give an inch they take a mile thing. This may be where you very literally live your boundaries: you did what you said you will do and nothing more is warranted at this time. Quarterly means four times a year, not four times a month (as in every week), yes? Then that's what they should get, anything more is strictly on your timetable and choosing. No back and forth "but we want abc AND xyz, not just the xyz you agreed to!" Okay, want abc in one hand and poop in the other, see which fills up first! It's not a discussion or negotiation unless you engage, know what I mean?

I know it's all about control and "winning" for them, but you have to do what's best for you first. They really don't get to make that decision for you.

[Rebel13]

I'm so sorry, Generic_Username. This is so typical. If it were me -- on my current high from one year of NC with my mom -- I would risk just not replying and see what happens. The thing is, you're not in control of what they do. You could do everything they ask, short of letting them see the kids, and they could STILL decide to file another suit. With some people, there just isn't any placating. Hopefully their recent defeat will discourage them from another suit so soon. Hopefully their solicitor would discourage them as well.

I agree with moglow, as much as possible, do what you think is best for you and your family. It doesn't sound to me like engaging with them does any of you any good. As long as you are doing what the court order states, I don't think there can be consequences aside from the hassle and stress of it all, and maybe a consultation fee with your attorney for reassurance.

[Call Me Cordelia]

How. Dare. They. 

That's truly beyond entitled. You just established, IN COURT, against your wishes, that they do NOT have the right to have contact with your children. They LOST. I would seriously consider taking that communication right to your solicitor and saying, you know what, I'm not doing the make-nice updates if this is my reward for trying to be kind. Get these crazy people out of our life for good, please. I'm not a lawyer and I'm in the US but this looks to me like contempt of court. Under no circumstances would I grant them the satisfaction of a prompt reply. But if the magistrates saw through them the first go round, I think your chances of winning some kind of counter suit could at least be explored. This behavior is so beyond reasonable under the circumstances. Even so, I'm so sorry you're going through this. Still.

Asking for school reports raised a flag in my brain. That specific thing bears no importance in an actual relationship. This is possibly me projecting, because this was my experience with my own parents, but it's possible they are looking for something, anything wrong with the children they can then blame and punish you for somehow.

But they do not have the control. They are flailing and doing anything they can think of to get their control back, and it's not a good look. You have the ability to stay grounded and stay the course and be, you know, not insane. Don't discount that.

[NarcKiddo]

This is grim.

But you have control.

The court has ordered non-contact contact. You have complied. That is now IT until next quarter when you again send your update, photos, whatever. In what world does non-contact contact involve the children being obliged to reply to their letters?

In your position I would simply reply to their demand saying something along the lines of "we are in compliance with the court-mandated contact arrangements  and will be sending you an update in three months time as required by the court. No further correspondence will be entered into in the meantime."

Also, if I were in your position I would be quite detailed in the updates without giving any actual information. Certainly not school reports and all that stuff they are demanding. But photos are good. Maybe a drawing if the children like drawing. Not a drawing you have made them do specially for the grandparents. I mean, you can let the grandparents think that, but any old drawing they won't miss would look good. Everything is sunshine and rainbows in the update. X got a gold star at school, Y is enjoying the choir. X had a really fun school trip. Y is great at riding a bike. And keep copies of everything you send. So if they go back to the courts to complain you can show that you have not only complied to the letter but you have gone (a bit) above and beyond with lots of nice news that any grandparent would love. But what you have NOT done is made the children do anything personally, because the court has specifically said non-contact contact.

I am not clear when they asked "when will we see the children"? Was it before or after the court case? If it was before, then the court case has intervened and so long as you are in compliance I think you need do nothing more. If it was after the court case then I think you need to refer the request to your solicitor and point out that such demands are not in the letter or spirit of the court case since they have come so soon after the order.

Did the court contact order put any time frame on all of this? Whether it did or did not, I don't think you need to address any questions about time frame. If the court specified a time frame then they can refer to the court papers. If it did not then you just carry on complying with the order. They may go back to seek a variation of the order at some point. However they are unlikely (I hope) to get it if you can demonstrate you have fully complied with the order while they have done nothing but hassle you for more (keep evidence of all those demands, too). If a court makes a decision it tends to take a very dim view of people who try to ignore that decision and bend things to their will. Especially if the other party is complying and doing their best.

I am sorry you are dealing with this awfulness.

[M0009803]

I think this is one of those situations were you have to heavily enforce boundaries.

From the looks of things, they are:

1. Trying to regain control
2. Trying to gain information to possibly make you look like a bad parent (school reports)

Effectively, their initial strategy failed (bully you via the courts to get what they want), so now it looks like they are changing strategies.

I have experience with a parent like this and my advise is to put them on a serious information diet and enforce boundaries.

Any information that you give them that is even remotely useful to them (in terms of them weaponising it) will be used against you in court later on once they collect it.  They will also try to eventually damage you via any link that they may have acquired vis-a-vis your kids.

Their ask for the school reports is what jumped out of the page when I read your post.  Thats a red flag because there is no productive reason for them to have such reports, and its information they can possible use later to get back at you.

I would generally advise to stick to exactly what the court ordered and maybe keep an audit trail of all the extra "asks" from your parents.

That should help you over time, in as far as protecting yourself and family, as well as spotting any behavioral patterns (I also found it easier to remember all the various things I went through when I wrote it all down.  Journaling helps a lot here)

Sorry this is happening to you and your family.  Its hard dealing with abusive parents that also have a need to control because it can be very emotionally draining.

[Rebel13]

Just two more quick thoughts:
1) Yes, it is super draining! What nice thing(s) can you do for yourselves, to counteract that as much as you can? What bonds you and brings you comfort and hope? Do that, as often as possible.
2) Along the same lines of keeping copies of what you send, I would also do whatever is possible in the UK to track the sending and delivery of the items. Return receipt, priority mail, etc. Covering your butt in every possible way is a great idea when the disordered kick up a fuss.

Good luck!

[Generic_Username]

Thank you everyone for your really kind and thoughtful replies. I've read all of them and truly gain some comfort from them. It's so refreshing to be able to have these conversations and a) not have to start from the beginning and b) not have to explain why something is so hard. I mean I know court is always hard, but you know what I mean!

Since I've posted this, I've taken a step back, and given myself permission to breathe and have a day or so of not processing this or thinking about it.

Update wise: We have instructed our solicitor to reply with basically "please see previous letter" type update. We're not increasing anything, you're not getting anything else, wait 3 months for the next update. We've also said we don't want any more correspondence via solicitor. This is it, we've finished now.

The non-contact contact has not been court mandated, it has been unofficially agreed. I made sure to check with our solicitor about this. She is very clear that it isn't legally binding, but she has cautioned that if we reduce this without warning or reason and end up back in court then it would be difficult to defend. For now, again to seem reasonable and to placate them, we will stick with 3monthly and see how our mental health is holding up.

@NarcKiddo - I really like the detailed-updates-without-actually-saying-anything approach and will remember that in August!

I handwrote them (partly as it can look like a lot of text without it being!) and have taken photos of any letter/correspondence I've sent. And I will definitely be continuing this going forwards.

Within the "agreement" they are able to send notes/cards and SMALL gifts for birthdays and xmas. It'll be nice to know the local charity shop will be well stocked at the important holidays! 

I'm feeling much more grounded, still emotionally exhausted, but it feels like there is a pinprick of light at the end of the tunnel

[moglow]

I'm admittedly a bit of a turd with the pushy of it all. Demand "more" that quickly and they'd get an exact copy of what I just sent. Then not respond in any way to anything else (and very possibly block them altogether) unless/until it's time for next update or I chose to provide something additional. 🥸

We're here with you.

[Adria]

I'm so sorry you are going through this.  Went through something similar. Not fun! You received some great advice here. I would keep everything as low key as possible.  Date stamp everything, when correspondence was sent, etc., and also anything you receive.  I would offer nothing more than what was agreed upon, except I love the idea of sending a crayon picture or drawing the kids have made to make it look like you are really trying. No report cards! Yikes!!!  In the mean time, I would block them on every front.  Let it go, in your mind, until the next quarter. If you can't forget it for awhile, try and have a little fun with it.  Maybe send them something silly along with the update and then laugh about it when you drop it in the mail next quarter.  Celebrate your strength and ability to handle their idiocy.  I pity them because they have nothing better going on in their life.