Has anyone ever confronted son/daughter about alienation part 2

[verum71]

I have been off the board for a few months.  My last post was about becoming increasingly more alienated from my daughter, who is now 17.  This has not changed much over the last 5 to 6 months.  My daughter is going in for surgery in a week.  I have been asking her about the specifics of the procedure and that I would like to be there.  For about a week and a half, she didn't answer my messages.  I thought I would try my luck with my BPDx on Our Family Wizard - I know that she read the message but chose not to respond.  My daughter sends me a message yesterday saying I really won't be up to visitors and I don't want anybody there (of course BPDx will be there).  I am agitated about this already.  Fast forward to today - I am going to my ex's to pick up my son's dog for dogsitting.  When BPDx comes out, she's looking to give me the stuff and just walk away.  I asked her about the procedure and said that it would be important for me to be there at the hospital if something might happen.  BPDx says you need to respect her wishes and not be there.  I mention again - if something were to happen how would I know?  She says "well that will be up to the hospital to figure out".  I already know this routine is like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football - I could go round and round with her all day on whether or not it would be important to let her dad know if something were to happen - I stopped and walked away. 
I am just tired of all this and almost to the point of saying "f#@k it - I'm done!  I am tired of you (my daughter) throwing me table scraps like I'm some random dude on the street.  I'm frustrated - my parents (her grandparents) are frustrated, my wife is frustrated. We have a family vacation scheduled in 3 weeks that she will be coming to.  We will be at a resort for a week and my family, my parents, my brother's family - will all be there.  It's going to be hard to put on a smiley face and act like her behavior is no big deal.  What I am trying to say is that I don't think I can keep this one to myself, put on a happy face, and pretend like this ok, when it is not.
There has been some posts lately about the "when and where" of having honest conversations with your children about boundaries and the struggles of trying to co-parent with a BPDx.  I have been thinking about this a lot, and I have kind of resolved myself to having this conversation when my daughter turns 18, then all of my kids will be adults.  My wife had suggested even having a conversation with all 3 of them present.  I have 10 months to figure this out.  any feedback would be greatly appreciated

[SeaBreeze]

I am sorry the relationship with your daughter is strained. Teen years are rough, in any given situation. However, with her upcoming surgery, I agree you need to respect your daughter's wishes. This is *her* boundary, and I think it's important to respect that. It will be easier to discuss boundaries when she turns 18 if you've modeled by example in honoring hers. For now, I suggest letting her know you will be thinking good thoughts for her during her surgery. Ask if daughter or ex or other family member will please call or text afterward to let you know she's okay. Maybe send flowers or balloons or a stuffed animal or whatever she likes to the hospital (or house) while she's recovering? In other words, let her know that you are there for her, even if not physically there.

[escapingman]

I can definitely sympathise with you and I feel your pain. I am having a very similar situation with one of my daughters and it is killing me from inside. I am also struggling with what to do about her contempt for me, it's very difficult when you get one word replies on your messages, often days after the message is sent. Her behaviour is far from OK, same as your DD, but how do you deal with it? I reckon if I brought it up that would be it and she would cut all contact with me, as she has done in the past. But at the same time I want her to know that the way she behaves towards me is far from OK. I am planning for a weeks holiday with both my alienated daughter and my other daughter, but as much as I am looking forward to it am also dreading it as I am not sure how she will behave. Last time I had her for a weekend break she kept messaging uNPDxw and made up all kind of stories about how miserable she was and how me and DD was treating her badly.

I think SeaBreeze is right regarding the surgery however painful this is for you. If you push it you risk more ammunition against you going forward.
 

[Rebel13]

Hi verum71!

I'm replying from the perspective of someone raised by a disordered mother, and someone who had major surgery for cancer last year.

I'm not a parent so please be aware of that.

I acknowledge the frustration you are obviously feeling with this situation! Having a history of a relationship with someone disordered must make it extra hard to feel some of the same feelings in relation to the behavior of your child.

Given all that, I agree with the others here who say, please honor your daughter's boundary on this one. Health stuff is super scary and struggling to deal with the uncertainty and fear is a big burden, even for what might be a simple or not life threatening problem.

The second suggestion I have is, try REALLY hard not to take this personally. There's at least some likelihood that her behavior has very little to do with you, her feelings about your relationship, or your importance in her life.

Your daughter is probably struggling with being in the middle between you and your ex. She knows what her mom wants her to do, because the disordered are never shy about making their wishes known, and your daughter knows what your ex can be like if she doesn't get her way.

Your ex probably doesn't want you there and could be pressuring your daughter to say she doesn't either.

You can let your daughter know in so many other ways that you care about her. I loved the idea someone else mentioned of sending cards or a gift, and do whatever you can to make them special! Not just generic balloons or a stuffed animal, but maybe something that has to do with an experience, hobby or interest the two of you shared. Definitely let her know you care about her and you're concerned and would love to hear from her when she's feeling better -- but don't stop at one card! When I was sick, one of my wonderful friends sent me a card every week. Since this sounds like a more short-term thing, you could send a card every day for a week! You could put inspirational quotes in there from someone your daughter admires, or from a book you liked.  "I read this book and what this person had to say meant a lot to me, so I wanted to share it with you."  Or "I was thinking about the time we went to ___ or did ___ and how much that meant to me, because it really made me feel ___." Etc.  The more personal and connected to her, and your relationship with her, your messages can be, the better. The disordered SUCK at gift giving and creating real connections, so that's an area where you can try to demonstrate to your daughter how much she means to you, in a way her mother can't.

No matter what you do, DO NOT let the anxiety and frustration get the better of you and make you behave in ways you won't feel good about later. As someone else said, the teenage years are a hard time for everyone. Your daughter is simultaneously trying to figure out who she is by separating from both of her parents, AS WELL AS trying to manage a disordered parent. Putting more stress or demands on her won't make her respect or value you more -- it'll just increase her burden.

Try as hard as you can to be what the commenters at the ChumpLady blog call "the sane parent." Let her know you love her and are there to support her. When you can't do that, find support for yourself and detach with love for your own safety and comfort. (Being the sane parent doesn't mean putting up with abuse.)

You can always try again to reconnect when you've recharged your own battery and are feeling less hurt and stressed about your relationship with her. Maybe your upcoming vacation will be a chance to do that. Or maybe it will take years for your daughter to get out from under the damage caused by her disordered parent and see her upbringing from a different perspective. It sucks, and I'm sorry you are having to deal with it. I wish you all the best and I hope your daughter is OK.

[escapingman]

If you haven't seen it, this is a really good channel on youtube https://www.youtube.com/@TheAnti-AlienationProject

It's made by a person that grew up alienated from her dad but has seen the light as an adult. She gives a lot of good advice and insight about how it is to grow up being alienated.

[verum71]

Thanks for the feedback. It is tough to not take it personally.  We had a long phone conversation Sunday night and I spent most of the time listening.  Many of the things that came up are clearly coming from her mom.  A lot of it hurt and was hard to hear but I did not do or say anything that would make things worse.  When I am able to step back and be objective about this, it does have to be extremely difficult to navigate her mom's absolute hatred towards me.  Everyone is uncomfortable, and I am an adult - not a teenager that is trying to navigate life.  Rebel 13 - thanks for the insight from someone who has navigated this dilemma.  I'm open when my daughter is older she'll come to some kind of understanding of the dysfunctional behavior of her mother. 

[Rebel13]

Oh good for you! It can be so hard to have empathy for someone when you feel they are treating you badly or unfairly. (Ask me how I know.) It's so great that you were able to listen to your daughter, and that she was able to share with you how things are for her. I really believe those kinds of interactions will pay off in the future as the two of you build trust and a caring relationship. All the best to you both.

[verum71]

Today was the day my daughter had her surgery.  I'm sitting there, both last night and this morning, asking myself what to say to her.  I sent her a text message last night, told her that I love her, and that I wwould be praying for her during her time in the hospital.  I sent her a message this morning telling her that I loved her as well and i would keep her in my thoughts today.  I have been this bundle of nerves all morning and to be honest, I kind of lost my shit this morning.  My wife and i went for a walk with our dogs and I got pissed at the dog for yanking on the leash when we were crossing traffic.  About 2 minutes into the walk, I told my wife I wanted to turn around and go home.   We got back to the house and i was a bawling mess.  I'm hurt, I'm pissed, and I am struggling to let go and accept this as it is.  I have been dealing with my BPDx since 2009 - we have been divorced 2011.  It's not like I haven't been here before.  My wife and I talked a little strategy on the front steps moving forward.  I know someone on this thread had mentioned "detach with love for my safety and comfort" and i do believe that this might have to be the next steps.  Anybody that any strategies, ideas, feedback, etc ( I will take it all) - this would be greatly appreciated.  i am to a point where this is directly impacting my mental health and well-being.  Not even really sure what "detach with love" could look like.

[Rebel13]

I'm so sorry! I do really feel for you. I don't have a great deal of success "detaching with love" but for me it looks something like, finding strategies to help calm myself down, stop worrying/catastrophizing about the future, remember/refocus on what is mine and what is other people's, take lots of deep breaths, try to hold in my mind simultaneously the love I feel for the person AND the reality that their life is theirs. I honestly don't know how that would fit with being a parent, as I've never been responsible for another person in that way. I can't imagine what it would be like to have brought someone into the world and known them since they were a tiny helpless baby, and THEN have to accept that they are a separate person that I can't fix, control or protect. That's probably part of why I never had kids. Maybe the parents on this board will have some better, more applicable advice. No matter what, it is perfectly fine for you to take care of yourself and your own feelings. If everyone did JUST that much, the world would be such a better place.