Relationships?

[Marianne]

I have one very kind, stable and trustworthy ex. A widower. With a daughter just a year younger than my son. We just spoke.

We had a relationship more than ten years ago. Neither him nor me was ready. And I broke up.

We always stayed friends and even went on short holidays with us four. When with him I am calm and happy and "normal". Even when together for days in a row. We never fight. If we disagree or feel hurt we just speak it out. The mess with dad is just out of my mind and we have fun, when I am there.

His stable attachment style just draws me to a stable attachment style too.

My life is a mess. I don't know if I can do this close a relationship ever again. Not now anyway.

But I love them both. A lot. He was the only person to give me a sense of a normal family.

If I am honest I'd just want him back. Not for a 24/7 relationship. But more a long distance thing. Just careful. Seeing each other now and then.

I just don't know if he'd want that. And I don't know if I can do that. And I don't know how to ask. And I don't know if I can draw other people into my messy family situation. Not now. But maybe after things stabilise. And I stabilise.

If I ask and he says no the friendship will be ruined. I know they love us. But maybe not like this.

I always think I cannot do relationships again. But when I  am with him, I always think: but with you I would want it...and it could work...

What do you think?

[MaxedOut]

What a lovely presence in your life, Marianne. These pieces stand out to me:
- My life is a mess. I don't know if I can do this close a relationship ever again.
- If I am honest I'd just want him back.... Seeing each other now and then. I just don't know if he'd want that. And I don't know if I can do that.
- If I ask and he says no the friendship will be ruined.

It sounds like a very unpredictable potential upside and a more sure and negative downside if your assessments are correct.

What are the aspects that make you want him back? You mention the stable attachment and sense of a normal family. Those don't seem necessarily romantic to me or driven by a desire for relationship, more like being closer and in each other's lives more. If there is a strong desire to be in a romantic relationship is that specific to feelings about him or something more broad that's happening and he seems like a safe place to think about it?

[Marianne]

Thanks for the questions and critical thinking! He is indeed a great friend. And I also love his daughter.

I am not sure. I don't have butterflies. But if I am with him, I just love him in a calm sense. I trust him fully. I feel completely free to be honest and myself, and trust that he is honest and himself. There are no mind games, as in my family. He is as close to a normal family as I ever had. I remember first being with him and his family, and feeling a sense of relief: ahhh...so this is what family can be like too? I simply enjoy being there. We have simple fun together. Laughs. Talks. Cuddles. Play. We can talk about many things. If he dislikes something, he just says it. He brings out the best in me. I feel good being physically near. From the first moment we met, I felt a sense of safety en friendship with him. I have grown to appreciate him more, over the years. I love his kid. Because she lost her mother, I have always felt motherly feelings to her. I met them when she was only a baby. I care for the both, and they for us. He is good to my child.

For me, that is what I want in a relationship.

If I am honest...it is partly about him as a person...partly about a general longing for safety and family and belonging and being emotionally held and for normalcy.

My own family is a mess. I distanced myself. I just have my son and dad left. And I am distancing from my dad too. He is so very manipulative...and he arouses trauma responses in me...he brings out the worse in me...and he keeps on gossipping to the family and others, telling completely twisted stories, for them to hate me and support him. It is just not a family at all. Never have been. They even hated me for being anxious of incest, as a tiny girl. Dad keeps telling me that was awful of me.

I would most definitely not want a relationship right now. The timing would be absolutely horrible. I am too much of a mess. My life is a mess. I absolutely would not want to do that to him and his kid. I love them too much for that.

But I was maybe more...fantasizing for a moment...that maybe I can distance from dad...recover for half a year...and see if there are possibilities.

He hasn't had a relationship for a long while. He is not the exciting womanizer many women want maybe. He is rather boring. Which is fine for me. After all the mess. I know he would like to have a woman. There was some mild flirting a while back between us. 

I thought...maybe...we could slowly get a little closer. Emotionally and physically. And see what is possible. I could not do a traditional co-living. But I'd love to just be nearer. Maybe cuddle or have sex. Maybe just visit more often. Maybe share a bit more family life. Relationship things. If it is a bit...dosed...so I can withdraw when I'm unwell...I think I could do that specifically with him.

But there's indeed a huge negative side. We could lose the friendship, which is of immense value to me. I am quite sure there would be no fightings. I never fight with anyone but my dad. I think we'd both be rather peaceful and with decent communication in that respect. But maybe my moments of depression and anxiety would be influencing them badly. Maybe it would not work out. I think I trust him enough to let him emotionally near. But I don't know what kind of fear sexuality would bring out in me. And I just really do not know how he would respond.

Anyway...I long for family...and I just love being around them...and I wondered if that might work. It would be an absolutely horrible idea right now. But I was kind of fantasizing about future possibilities...

[Marianne]

Hm. Thought about it. I would like this. But it is a stupid thought. Friendship is feasible. Maybe a closer friendship. A relationship is not. I would not want to burden them with my pain. I am just grateful for what there is now.

[Rebel13]

Hi Marianne, maybe you could take things one interaction at a time? Invite him, or both, to spend an afternoon with you, or you and your son? Doing something calm, like taking a walk in a beautiful area, getting a hot drink in a quiet spot, playing a game together. Then you could reflect on how that went, how you felt, any problems or concerns that arose, and think about issuing another invitation when you are ready. Hopefully, if it is a good, reciprocal relationship, and your friends enjoy your company, then you would receive an invitation perhaps as well. There's nothing wrong with going slow and enjoying the moment. You don't have to figure out everything today for all time.

[Marianne]

Thanks.

We actually have a good friendship. I invite him regularly. We often spend a day together. And he says he really enjoys meeting me/us. I feel completely safe with him. We have fun.

It is a good idea though to not look ahead...but rather take it per moment. And see what happens. I really like that. We needn't know the faraway future. 

[MaxedOut]

I like what both of you say here. And that idea of reflectiveness (Marianne you have great insight and specificity). Regardless of where things go, I think that is so important in coming out of PD relationships. And also checking ourselves about not thinking in black or white terms (e.g., go for it versus I'm too much of a mess-forget it).

We need to build back up (or build up for the first time) our own judgement, listen to our own voice, sense our own instincts, practice thinking through things without the distortions and PD-centric perspective. Probably raise issues on minor stuff in more relaxed ways so more important things feel ok to talk about. Experiment, study/reflect, plan, do.

I'm reading The Gift of Fear right now and it is a good reminder about how much our subconscious protects us and picks up on things. That part of the brain can be off on calibration or conclusion, especially after years of PD relationships, but it's pretty good at directional assessment. I have been trying to listen to mine more and to not get fancy in thinking about it (Did I leave that person/experience/media feeling good/better or worse/drained? What felt good about that?).

The things Rebel13 mentions "Then you could reflect on how that went, how you felt, any problems or concerns that arose" (and paying attention to healthy reciprocity) feel like things that are part of PD relationship recovery and building better foundations for any relationships.

[Marianne]

Thanks! That is all very useful to think about!

I know I literally always leave this person feeling relaxed and happy. Which is great. I sometimes miss passion...but I think with me being an emotionally intense person...this is not a bad thing perse. He is stable and kind and practical and a leader. All of which I am not. Whereas he enjoyed my emotional warmth/passion and creativity and deeper questions to him. We complemented things.

I do think I should be more emotionally stable and practically organised before trying. But it is exactly this deeper sense that was immediately right with him. From the first moment.

With unsafe ex there was extreme passion...but never this deeper sense of feeling loved and safe.