Am I deserving of support?

[Queenfrog]

I sometimes feel like my decision to stay in my marriage disqualifies me for emotional support and participation in this forum. I realize I should probably leave my PD spouse of 35 years, but I've never been able to bring myself to do it.

The other day we were arguing again about selecting a chair for the balcony. He said a chair like the downstairs neighbor's would be okay. I couldn't see the neighbor's chair through our window, so I opened the window to try to get a better look.

He immediately freaked out because he doesn't ever want that window opened. Not even for a few seconds, it turns out. (Discussion of the balcony already had him on edge because he doesn't want me using it.) He yanked me away from the window. I lost my balance and fell to the floor. It was my turn to freak out. I was shaking as I prepared to leave the apartment. This further enraged him and he came at me. He didn't touch me again, but he was yelling in my face and it was scary. I don't even remember what he said - I think it was the usual theme about how I produced this whole thing and was overreacting.

For the record, there have been fewer than a dozen shoving and blocking incidents in the 35 years we have been together. He's never struck me, FWIW. Still, I know what you're thinking.

I went out and I stayed away the rest of the day. I looked at apartment li$ting$. I considered booking a hotel room, but I couldn't see spending all that money on principle, especially since I would have had to come back for some things anyway. And how many nights would I stay away? I might as well bide my time and rent an apartment. Or not.

When I came back, I told him I was not ready to talk about it. He said he knew he made a mistake and was very sorry. He took responsibility, but then he stopped reading from the little script he had written. He said he was surprised I fell and surprised at how upset I was. It was more like "I have to realize that you can't handle my acting that way." (He admits the relationship between George Costanza's parents is what he perceives as normal and comfortable.)

He also said we need to get over this bad period by dropping our anger at each other - and the emphasis rapidly settled on ME dropping MY anger. I repeated back to him, essentially: "so, you are saying that the way to improve our relationship is for me to stop being angry at you." He said yes, that's what he was saying. Unbelievable. I did get him to agree that we both need to be kind to each other.

Of course, his anxiety was triggered the very next day and he immediately started yelling at me again. My cafeteria plan rejected a small charge as improperly submitted. He told me I can't do anything right and he took pains to repeat twice, in all seriousness, that I can't even shit straight. Like I should take notes. I reminded him that we agreed to be kind to each other, to no avail.

The instant his temper tantrum subsides, I am supposed to drop whatever anger I am feeling. I pointed this out to him and he seems to think it's right.

This forum is helping me face the fact that it's pointless to try to reason with him. Also, I've learned to see how every time I argue back it only makes things worse. (No more JADE!) So how am I Committed to Working on It? I really don't know where this is all going right now, other than me distancing myself further. I'm considering postponing my phase-down to retirement so I can more easily afford a separate apartment - without telling him this is the reason.

He's 80 years old and his capabilities are declining. I really don't know if I can steel myself enough to move out and watch him suffer for it. Will I just stay in this miserable situation? If I do, how can I expect anyone to support me?

[notrightinthehead]

Gosh! Your situation really is difficult. And why would you not be worthy of being supported? May I say - it's not normal to not be allowed to open a window. It's not a healthy and kind relationship when you are being yelled at regularly. But you know that.
Leave or stay, but find some space for yourself where you have peace, quiet, respect and safety for a while every day. Join a yoga class or a library, or go to church or a mall, whatever works for you. Living with such a difficult person must be a strain on you, not only your psyche but also your health. And yes, I strongly recommend the tools from the toolbox. You made a start. Eventually you might find that they help you recover some strength.
 

[Queenfrog]

Thank you, Notrightinthehead! I appreciate the support.   It's a confusing time for me, because use of the toolbox is keeping me on alert and less tolerant of his abuse and control. More distant. He is sensing it already and I am planning on establishing more new boundaries over time. I think this pattern is familiar to people who've read lots of posts on here.

It's not normal to not be allowed to open a window. To be clear, he won't open it either. He's long been fearful of windows. Nor can we use the balcony, bathroom fans, one of the light fixtures, two of the cupboards, etc. And then there are the things he's allowed to use but I am not: the kitchen, the clothes washer, the dishwasher, the blinds - I actually made a rage list of "Things That Are Not Broken But I Must Not Use Them For Their Ordinary Purposes." It's long. One of my New Years' resolutions is to start cooking again. It will lead to conflict, guaranteed. I believe he has OCPD.

I work in a private office where I can go anytime. And I go for long walks. My health and psyche are in pretty good shape, I think. I am just tired of living this diminished life. Sad about the past and fearful about the future. I have to make some changes or I'm pretty sure things will get worse.

[square]

Of course there is space for you here to get support. There is a reason there is a Committed to Working On It board, and that is to give safe space to people who need support but are not looking for "leave him/her" advice.

I wrote a post not long ago about the suppiosedly opposite yet strangely the same messages people in hard situations frequently get from society. And one side of that coin seems indeed to be that if you're still there, you have no right to say anything about it. It unfortunately has the effect of cutting people off from very needed support.

And if someone were to perhaps eventually leave, would it not make that process easier and quicker if they could work through their thoughts and experiences with others, without feeling totally shut down by the idea that they can't get support unless the divorce papers are filed?

Anyway, to your situation, I can recognize a lot of things there. I too have been told that the problem is that I have "anger" about things he does. He literally does not see how backwards this is, and has explicitly stated that no matter what he might do, me being "angry" about it would be the problem.

I also relate to how minor things just blow up out of nowhere, and how he has no ability to manage conflict or his feelings cobstructively.

I have also been in the situation where I felt like I needed to get away, go to a hotel, and it all just seemed so futile. I wasn't able to leave at the time so going to a hotel just seemed like a waste of money and a dramatic move and I'd have to go back anyway. And that feeling of no agency and no choices was yet another kick in the teeth. It added to my pain.

[sunshine702]

We try hard to be a supportive place and not TELL people what they HAVE to do. 

I want to validate you SO MUCH with one area - that the partner doesn't seem to be very remorseful and wants YOU to drop any anger/ fear/ unsettled confusion right after the incident.  This is exactly what I experienced too.  This is why I choose the go route because the "we just ignore it and blame you for "triggering" him was SO destabilizing to me!

I know I did nothing wrong and that is has ZERO to do with me. But if he also will not really talk to me about "the rage storm " and is completely convinced I triggered him.  I suggest journaling it.  That helped me see how long this was going on and the intensity I also started to journal three years ago about my feelings and leaving But you can journal staying too and what safety plans you can work out.

For me it's like he doesn't care at all.  It's about him and only him

That to me is the worst of it.  My abuse was also light but concerning - it was the complete lack of care for my side afterwards. 

[sunshine702]

Square I think it was you that described their thinking like you were an NPC - Non Player Character from a video game.

That image is perfect.  They are the playable character and you just repeat one sentence.

[SonofThunder]

Hi Queenfrog.

You wrote:

"For the record, there have been fewer than a dozen shoving and blocking incidents in the 35 years we have been together. He's never struck me."

You also wrote:

"He's 80 years old and his capabilities are declining. I really don't know if I can steel myself enough to move out and watch him suffer for it."

Imo, shoving and striking are the same thing. Him striking you vs you striking the floor in a shove is no different. He is not confident you will not be injured in a shove so he takes his chances with seriously harming you, each time he is out of control. You are physically abused. You are verbally abused. You are emotionally abused.

Having been married to a PD for over three decades, I knew very early on in the marriage, once the love-bombing and idealization stages turned to devaluation and rage, that there was something wildly wrong.  It took me decades to finally connect the dots.

I will assume you experienced physical, verbal and emotional abuse decades ago. Therefore, him being alone at 80...?? Im guessing he could have rightfully found himself alone at 50. Imo, our abusers age is not a factor in whether is it is right to finally protect ourselves from further abuse. In my experiences, age has been a tool in a smear-campaign against me, as my PDw uses age to give herself an even bigger victimhood trophy when she found herself alone after three decades. Thats on her, not me. 

As my Out of the FOG comrade, I want to advise you to consider that aging abusers with cognitive "declining capabilities" can actually become increasingly abusive and imo that should be a big factor in your decision-making to protect yourself, not current age of the PD being a benefit to the PD, so their long-abused caretaker sticks around. 

With regard to the title of your post; that question already tells me that you know you needed to protect yourself many years ago, but find yourself still bound in the F=fear O=obligation G=guilt. That FOG is the crafty toolbox of the PD to keep you around in the wash-rinse-repeat abuse cycle. Until you are willing to boldly step away from the FOG and allow the PD to adult themselves in the life they deserve, the FOG will be your norm; wash-rinse-repeat. 

Out of the FOG is about camaraderie and support, but its also about the hard truth of what brought us to Out of the FOG in the first place.  I like to encourage others to move boldly forward in truth, finally breaking free of FOG.  I wish you strong self protection as you consider your life ahead.

SoT

[Queenfrog]

Just a quick note here to say THANK YOU for the comments! I have a lot to consider. For now, uOCPDh is in the lovebombing stage. I am tolerating it, but I have no illusions about it. I'm going to keep on working.

Sunshine702, I have seen your suggestions about journaling and I agree I should do more of that. Just writing my posts on here has been surprisingly helpful to me - I've written at least three and discarded without posting.  I just haven't figured out how and where to journal. Do folks on here have a favorite password-protected online journaling tool that works great? I tried researching them a while back and got a little overwhelmed with the options. For this, I think typing will be better than longhand.

[sunshine702]

Some of my posts here three years later made my jaw drop too Queenfrog. If a beloved friend told me that she was experiencing what I wrote....and it all seemed perfectly normal to me.  You will really see the pattern of emotional and verbal abuse if you do this. 

Mods have warned me though that this is a somewhat OPEN space so be slightly careful.

I tend to write myself letters.  Looking back some of those were jaw dripping too.

[moglow]

Admin Note: It's not "somewhat open" - it's the internet. With the exception of a very few sections, all posts here can be seen by anyone who finds this forum. That's why we caution and insist upon people not sharing specifics and masking identifying information for anyone involved. Wipe your history every time you sign out if you use the same computer as others in the household or if he has access to yours [maybe set up a browser that automatically clears the cache every time you close it out - I know Firefox will do that]. 

[SonofThunder]

Admin Note: It's not "somewhat open" - it's the internet. With the exception of a very few sections, all posts here can be seen by anyone who finds this forum. That's why we caution and insist upon people not sharing specifics and masking identifying information for anyone involved. Wipe your history every time you sign out if you use the same computer as others in the household or if he has access to yours [maybe set up a browser that automatically clears the cache every time you close it out - I know Firefox will do that].

 

[Queenfrog]

The love-bombing phase has ended on schedule. Kind of a relief - it was oppressive! Spouse hasn't yet devolved into regular hostility and criticism, but he has withdrawn a bit and started criticizing a bit.

I am looking for opportunities to express affection and respect to him in healthy ways. I am doing that because I want him to feel safe and loved, but also because I want to know -- for myself -- that I am not contributing to the problems in our relationship by being cold and hostile toward him, which is what he accused me of. It's exactly what I've been concerned about as I work the Toolbox. I suppose one way to think about it is that I don't have to wear armor around him all the time. I can be open and affectionate. I just have to be ready to exit when necessary.

I also have to remember not to be reactive or overreact when he triggers me. If he says something that sounds slightly rude or mean, occasionally it really is just the way he speaks. He was raised by wolves and he never learned how to speak in kind and courteous ways to anyone. I come from the opposite type of background, where everyone is "nice" to a fault, and occasionally I pointlessly try to police his speech. There's a difference between that and abuse, and I'm still figuring out where the line is for me. 

I might post some more about this cycle through the next incident, especially as I haven't yet figured out how or where I want to start journaling. I hope that's OK. I think I'm being careful.

[Rebel13]

Hi Queenfrog, I just want to add a note of support and say I admire so much the thoughtful way you are investigating and processing this situation.

Also, gently, just saying, 80 years is plenty of time to learn how to "speak in kind and courteous ways" if a person is interested in doing so. From my own experience, I was raised with a normalized level of "teasing" that most people consider quite hurtful and mean. It took me a while, but I did unlearn that, because the people I cared about let me know that it was hurting them. And I'm not anywhere near 80 years old.

Hang in there and take good care of you.

[square]

It sounds like a really good plan, QF 👍

[j.banquo]

Just wanted to say I'm sorry you're in this situation, and had that scary experience of being shoved.

You're absolutely worthy of support on here.

[JohnnyBoyBlue]

Hi Queenfrog,
 
 Your question, doubt about self-worth and support, is so understandable. I can relate to these insecurities feeling in some way my choice to stand near the fire got me burned, so how could I burden any one else with my wounds? Reading your story made my heart do some things..
 I just want to remind you that you are created in the image of God. You are a beautiful human being. The experience of your relationship was never supposed to be this way. This fire is supposed to warm you in a controlled manner. This fire is responsible for being destructive.
 Your worth and value are not from people. They are from an all loving God who made you exactly how you are because He wanted to express Himself as you. Like an artist, making a masterpiece introspective painting of Himself. You are His work of art. And He wants His art to be taken care of and loved and supported.
 You are not alone. You have found a good place here. I pray you have taken steps for healthy boundaries since your post.
 Merry Christmas