Crisis Cycles, Suicide, Triggered Responses

[MaxedOut]

I have been getting hit with shakiness and tears today from another cycle of suicidal/accusatory messages. It has happened a few times since the split and I have worked to stick with some boundaries but jeez, it is so hard. My STBXUBPDW destabilizes into split-like behaviors and anguish and often takes pills alongside, sometimes at pretty dangerous levels. She has vehemently refused any support options/suggestions (and threatened a fair amount for calling emergency services, plus the last time I took her to an ER, it went very not well). It has been at the point where the "only thing" she wants/accepts is basically letting her go off and lash out (on me, her close family member, etc.).

The month before the split she was crisising, for lack of a better term, and the messages started and I said I would come support if she could commit not to lash out at me (I had left the house for a couple of hours due to conflict). A majot thing getting me to a breaking point was that these suicidal-crisis-abuse-episodes were happening more frequently and happening in reponse to me setting boundaries about mistreatment (e.g., I would like to talk about X. It is important, but I am not willing to talk about it right now when we are both upset.). To where it was like part of an abuse/IDD cycle - the peak. Having reasonable boundaries result in suicide attempts and abuse when she couldn't access me for lashing out and/or as escalating responses to me tryig to create some safety was just, with much more clarity than other things, not sustainable.

I feel like I have been good/OK with not getting hooked too much and maintaining certain boundaries for this and having some perspective but suicide is a trauma area for me previous to this relationship and boy, sometimes it is hitting me at the core. The sheer level of fear, helplessness, guilt, and at least previously, responsibility is immense. And intellectually I know this is not my thing to fix or tolerate. But I am a mess today and it's clearly has some CPTSD sorts of hooks (that are unpredictable; it happened last night and I was OK, and the last couple of times).

[Poison Ivy]

MaxedOut, I'm sorry you're in this very difficult situation. I think it's appropriate for you to tell the person that you're going to call emergency services. What does the person threaten to do when you say that you're going to contact emergency services?

[MaxedOut]

When we were together threats included "kill you" and "murder you" and mess with my vehicle, though I think those were designed to intimidate. The more worrisome, as I can see it as a real possiblity, is suicide by cop type stuff, which she has threatened and with specifics (wave a knife around). The emergency psych here is basically trauma inducing rather than healing and triggers any number of very significant anxieties with her. I don't even know that I would characterize it as "at least she's safe."

We have a community crisis team alternative, when available, and I did call them once but they basically knock on the door and if someone answers ask if they are ok, want help, etc. My ex just said no and is quite good at pulling it together enough to pass wellfare, medical, psych eval questions. I called her prescriber earlier this year and took her in on the clinic's basic "go there or calling for a hold and pick up." That went very poorly and the hold was pinged then immediately pulled by his office as she agreed to go in but the police force didn't actually pull it so there were cops returning to the house every couple of hours and she ended up getting removed after we had been to the ED.

[Poison Ivy]

Do you live in the U.S.? If you do, I suggest contacting the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline, https://988lifeline.org/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=onebox. You might get some helpful tips about how to respond going forward so that you and other people are safe from the person's threats.

[MaxedOut]

988 is what I have contacted before (and suggested she contact several times). But it may be good, as you mention, to reach out from a planning stance rather than just in the moment. I don't feel unsafe at present. She doesn't know where I live and I am not   interacting in person.

I took a beta blocker and did a number of panic attack/anxiety calming activities. Not baseline yet but it's helping. Though feels like it could ramp up again pretty easily. I have not had that sort of reaction in a while, probably since the break up. I did get an apology-ish email from my ex (with some inaccurate guilt stuff added).

I have tried engaging on safety planning. That's not really my role anymore. I didn't want to try and control that really but my wife did complete and app safety planning process; it just didn't have anything useful for this (the main reason I wanted her to think through stuff). I have texted her sibling previously, though did not last night (I did give a heads up this morning though).

[bloomie]

MaxedOut - what a terrible ordeal. It makes perfect sense this sends you spinning. I am so very sorry!

From what you describe, this is an acute, active situation in which you are receiving suicide threats, and personal threats in the recent past from your stbx. Having live through this with a loved one I can understand how distressing this can be and also how difficult it can be to suss out how serious this is and how best to respond.

We can offer you emergency contact info and links that may be able to guide you, but what we advocate here for you is to call emergency services and alert them asap when any threat is made.  And then get domestic violence support and input from the highly trained professionals for yourself.

Anything beyond that is beyond what we can safely advise you in in an acute situation.

Here are some emergency links:

https://outofthefog.website/emergency

Please let us know how you are as you are able and please put your safety as highest priority.

[Rebel13]

MaxedOut, I'm so sorry you are dealing with this! I know you have awesome skills and are extremely thoughtful about how you handle this relationship. But as you say, this problem REALLY IS NOT yours to solve. From your posts that I've read on this forum, you've done everything humanly possible to help, and nothing has worked. At this point, since the two of you have split, and since you don't believe emergency services are helpful, what is your thinking about no contact? You have a right to protect yourself from this kind of stress and abuse.

[square]

How are things today?

I have to say, I was very frustrated on your behalf reading how she'd escalate atvthe ER but do a snow job on the alternative crisis people.

[MaxedOut]

Hey all, I got some nastygrams today in response to me emailing to check on whether to have an autoship to her continue and such. She sounds like she's in an episode. And I got another reminder that her spewing vile assertions, insults, criticisms is just saying how she feels, not accusations, telling me what I feel, insults, name calling etc.

For example "You are evil, lying about X, and have never cared about me." doesn't count as something I should be able to assert boundaries about because it's just stating how she feels and I can't demand she not express her emotions (which I don't, I just state I will no longer or simply stop engaging, she just feels entitles to lash out at me and have me respond).

I feel like NC is something I've tried to avoid as divorce steps and her moving play out over the next few months. But it may be best for all concerned, or something like requests through sister or lawyer. That will be super triggery if I initiate and pretty firmly place divorce process in adversarial territory.

[square]

If you stayed the course for a smooth divorce, any idea of how long that might take?

[MaxedOut]

2-3 months, probably (she does not need to be present in the state but my guess is a desire to get it finalized and move). Unfortunately she got an attorney with a reputation more on the adversarial side so could be a pipe dream.

[StartingHealing]

Hi maxedout,

Reading your posts.. the former spouse did many of the same things you described with the self deletion threats, deleting me threats, serious injury to me threats, serious threats against the dog.

It was such that I called the local police and she was arrested for DV and disturbing the peace. And that was the last time I was in contact with her unless it was court or a hearing.

 The FOG is so painfully real. It's a great thing that you are in a location that is unknown to her. 

 I suggest the book Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder by Bill Eddy LCSW JD and Randi Kreger. If you have a public library card there is an app called Overdrive / Libby that if they have it, you can read it on a mobile or computer.

I wish I had read this book before starting the process of becoming single again.  Would have helped a great deal. If you decide to go the lawyer route please retain one that is experienced with high conflict people.  I didn't and that bit me in the butt.  Also remember that family court is going to be biased towards her.  The reason that I went the lawyer route was because I needed to have another layer between me and her actions. Even then there were times that the fight / flight would kick in and it was not good

Another thing to consider is that all the assets are going to be split in some fashion and with the baked in bias of the court, and the "evidence" standard in family court is way loose, watch out for shenanigans from her side.  Another thing is do research on the judges in family court circuit as well.  Find out which one is as unbiased as possible. If nothing else get a few free consultations from several different lawyers and ask hard questions like how to protect your assets, which judge is more neutral in rulings and when to file to be placed on that judges docket, which county it would be best to file in and if that is a possibility for you to do. Also expect that the court will be weaponized against you.  In my case I was paying everything, still living in the marital residence, and the former spouse filed motion after motion in an attempt to keep me paying for all the debts, have the court kick me out of the residence and allow her and her "friends" to move in and sell it.  It finally resolved with a cash buyer offering to buy the residence and me threatening to file bankruptcy.

I do not for one second regret becoming single again.  Weight is slowly going down, BP is back to normal, I sleep and wake refreshed, I don't jump into fight or flight when my mobile pops a notification. Life is really really good overall.  It was a costly endeavor though.  I am recovering financially from it. A bit more slowly than I expected because of the crazy inflation going on right now and the alimony payments done via paycheck garnishment even though I was fully compliant.

I wish you all the best as you move forward with this. 

[MaxedOut]

Thank you for sharing, StartingHealing. I have read Splitting, which 100% recommend and did get a lawyer with HCP experience via recs. My spouse retained as well (unfortunately someone a bit more on the aggressive side). So far it's in "avoid court" land, but lots of nasty messaging, rewriting history, etc. Splitting is so good for understanding process but honestly so much of its value is just giving a frame of expectations with PDs. I would already have been surprised and really distressed by some of the stuff and really struggling with the bullying behaviors. Knowing that was likely coming and not to put too much hope in negotiated settlement and to know feelings are facts here, regardless of the fact it's a legal setting is invaluable. It has made me super feel for those going through the process with minor children.

The BIFF communication books (also by a Bill Eddy) have been helpful as well. The second is largely repackaging in a tighter format so I think "It's Not You" would be my recommendation for those.

And yes, the nervous system recovery is nice. I no longer take beta blockers daily. I do have spikes in anxiety sometimes getting a bit near panic attacks but getting more infrequent. My baseline is probably back to pretty normal - and I am a pretty laid back person. I have had a couple therapist conversations about "I worry it sounds like I am making this up, it just sounds like one thing on top of the other. I feel bad coming with more negative stuff." as there was a lot of additional challenges the past couple of years. They could see the "real me" in there and it's nice to be back in a calmer space, my own reality, and with control over much of my life. I have had a couple of people who didn't know anything comment that I "was back" in terms of energy, ways of talking/being.

[MaxedOut]

But of a follow-up. I just looked up the assigned judge. And she has a strong record on DV. Part of the City's commission, involved and awarded by the same DV resource/crisis center I went to a couple of times. Relieved about that bit of info in case things do go that route. It's likely not relevant without kids given state property treatment and alimony in my state but my STBXW has been and is in 100% victim mode (while continuing verbally and emotionally abusive messaging).

[StartingHealing]

MaxedOut
I savvy the comment about "being back" energy wise. I remember the conversation that I had with my mentor and they remarked how I was 'unfolding, expanding' into what I should have been.

Cool! Very good deal that you are already up to speed on things.  Have to say that from the sounds of it, you are far far better prepared than I was. All I knew at the time was if this shite continues, it may not be physical death but I would die just the same.  Whether it was at the mind / emotional or soul level. 

Indeed, I am still shocked at how much the BPD impacts folks outside of themselves. Have you looked into forums and BPD survivor groups on FB?  There is one outofthefog.website . this is where I got the top 100 behaviors of PD folks and it finally got through to me when I turned it into a check list and the former spouse got 98 out of 100 and that's only because I'm not certain about the two. 

Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) Escape from walking on eggshells is a private group on FB. they police members really good. Lots of good intel there plus having a place that is about the damage PD folks do to us nons..

bpdfamily.com watch yourself here.  They have a "poor BPD" mind set and as a result the advice slung doesn't really work for non PD people.  In fact that is something I have noticed. Any site, forum, podcast, that has the "poor BPD" isn't good for folks that are not that way.  Avoid unless you want to see the garbage that is being spun.

Sending you all the best in the getting free from that person. 

[StartingHealing]

Well MaxedOut maybe this could be a good thing with that judge.  Do you have audio, video, text saved that shows the abuse?  Might work.  Depending on your state some have admitted that there is such a thing as emotional coercion which is abuse. fingers crossed for you