Will they ever change? PD mum

[sweet1987]

Hi all
It's been a long time since I've posted.
I've been dealing with the reality of mum being an undiagnosed bpd or  npd for about 6 years now.
I set many boundaries and have a an okay relationship with my mum and it felt like we had a good run. She apologiesd and things were calm. But recently she keeps making situations out of anything I message, then I see the same patterns, emotional blackmail, manipulation, love bombing, shaming, blaming, I'm a "bad daughter" if I don't do what she wants when she wants it. It's like she is pushing against my boundaries.
The problem is I think I got to comfortable, because things had been calm I started thinking more about a way forward and having a better and closer relationship with her, but I think this was just me getting caught up in fantasy again. I know she can never be the mum I want and I need to be the one to give that to myself now and heal my inner child, but it's so hard. Anyway the point is, when she started doing all her usual behaviours I felt so unprepared and even though it's been a few years and I've had so much counseling, it's like what she was doing actually worked on me and it really annoyed me, because I was once at a point where it would bounce off me because I knew what she was like. Now it feels like I'm right back at the start. can anyone relate to this. A parent being almost normal for a long time then dici g straight back into their pd behaviors, maybe that's part of the manipulation too. I just don't know.   

[Andeza]

We call it "good behavior." They act right for long enough to snow you into thinking things can be okay or they can change, but they get comfortable and start slipping. Before I went NC my uBPDm was trying that for a couple of months, but she's really bad at it and slips back into her patterns hard and fast.

[moglow]

Hey Sweet "welcome" back! So here's the thing - we're all who we are and do what we do until we choose to do otherwise. It's not easy and it's for sure a learning process, but for most of us when we know better we work to do better. Some choose not. They're "happy" being who they are and blaming others for not protecting them [in whatever form they choose at that moment in time]. They blather through life, complaining and manipulating others into being their caretakers. Lets face it, if they didn't do it themselves and it fails, they get to keep on blaming someone else. They accept little/no responsibility and continue on.

We're human. Like it or not, we have built in expectations for what we want from our parents, because it's what we've been told and have seen within other families. Somewhere along the way, we have to learn to expect, think and do for ourselves instead of others. Putting those expectations on people who have already shown us who they are and what they're capable of ... it just hurts us in the long run. I'm also of the opinion that every one of us has stuff, whether we choose to face or discuss it with others, ignore it or deal with it best we can. We're all responsible for our own, not theirs. Alternately, they aren't responsible for ours.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing, no contact or full on enmeshment and taking on everything she dishes. You can choose whatever level of contact you find comfort or peace with, limited or very limited as far or not as you need. You can choose to go just.this.far [whatever feels best for you] and no further. You can shut down the blaming and complaining as her being who she is, not.your.stuff.

I'm not saying be rude or disrespectful, but you need to abide by your boundaries if you're going to find peace. Maybe don't respond to every text and phone call. If there's not an legitimate question or need, it's her spouting who she is. Maybe teach her by example: respond only to the positive. She wants to be ugly or blaming? Nope right out of that nonsense. Just don't respond. She doesn't want to hear it anyway, so don't.

It's a place to start maybe?

[sweet1987]

Hey Sweet "welcome" back! So here's the thing - we're all who we are and do what we do until we choose to do otherwise. It's not easy and it's for sure a learning process, but for most of us when we know better we work to do better. Some choose not. They're "happy" being who they are and blaming others for not protecting them [in whatever form they choose at that moment in time]. They blather through life, complaining and manipulating others into being their caretakers. Lets face it, if they didn't do it themselves and it fails, they get to keep on blaming someone else. They accept little/no responsibility and continue on.

We're human. Like it or not, we have built in expectations for what we want from our parents, because it's what we've been told and have seen within other families. Somewhere along the way, we have to learn to expect, think and do for ourselves instead of others. Putting those expectations on people who have already shown us who they are and what they're capable of ... it just hurts us in the long run. I'm also of the opinion that every one of us has stuff, whether we choose to face or discuss it with others, ignore it or deal with it best we can. We're all responsible for our own, not theirs. Alternately, they aren't responsible for ours.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing, no contact or full on enmeshment and taking on everything she dishes. You can choose whatever level of contact you find comfort or peace with, limited or very limited as far or not as you need. You can choose to go just.this.far [whatever feels best for you] and no further. You can shut down the blaming and complaining as her being who she is, not.your.stuff.

I'm not saying be rude or disrespectful, but you need to abide by your boundaries if you're going to find peace. Maybe don't respond to every text and phone call. If there's not an legitimate question or need, it's her spouting who she is. Maybe teach her by example: respond only to the positive. She wants to be ugly or blaming? Nope right out of that nonsense. Just don't respond. She doesn't want to hear it anyway, so don't.

It's a place to start maybe?

.
Thank you so much for this, so true. I just need to reevaluate my boundaries as I've gotten caught up in the fantasy that she can be something other than than what she chooses. There's just this deeply rooted sadness it feels like grieving all over again.

[sweet1987]

We call it "good behavior." They act right for long enough to snow you into thinking things can be okay or they can change, but they get comfortable and start slipping. Before I went NC my uBPDm was trying that for a couple of months, but she's really bad at it and slips back into her patterns hard and fast.

Yes this makes so much sense!

[moglow]

It IS grieving, ongoing and unresolved grief. We want "more" and don't understand why that's not possible. Or we've reached the point where we want to be left alone [even for a while!] and don't know why that's not possible either. Navigating all this is one long grief process. We can work through and find acceptance that it is what it is, but it's hard.

Mine also cycles. She'd be calm and easy and somewhat sociable and I fell for it many times. Over shared and ignored that underlying sense that something was off. She'd get more and more snippy, then go volcanic over some random comment or imagined slight or "someone told me you said xyz ..." And she believed all of it. Nothing I could say or do helped in any way until she got it all out of her system. Then the cycle began again, with her actually asking why I hadn't called or full on denying what/how she'd treated me. All my life, much worse when she was alone.

I think mine's just all about the drama and attention. When she wants a mad, she finds or invents one. Woe betide anyone who had the audacity to insert reality - she isn't interested. She just demands to "vent" or be heard, isn't at all interested in any resolution unless it suits her current purposes.

[Liketheducks]

Mine also do the "good behavior" thing.   Deep down, they'll both still the same.   My therapist claims Dad is NPD, and my BPD....by my symptoms.   They consistently set me up....and consistently let me down.   I'm nearly 55 and I STILL don't always see it coming.   I STILL want to believe they can be different...as they promise....but, it is what it is.  It IS grief.  Grief over what we really deserved in terms of unconditional love and support.  I'm working on myself.   I'm working on not letting it affect me as deeply.   It IS hurtful behavior, but I only have control over myself.

I saw something the other day about us seeking help to deal with people close to us who should seek help. 

Hang in there.   

[NotCryingGlitter]

In order for a "miracle" to happen, the person has to recognize what's wrong, have the heart to admit it and feel guilty, and have the desire to change. Normally, abusive people won't do those things; it's rare they do. The best chance is when it's addressed early on, but most abusers are already set in their ways, because people didn't intervene early enough. Abuse is not just a "family issue"; it's not meant to be a "private" thing -- or it will never stop, which is why there are mandatory reporting laws for certain situations.

Before more recent years, bullying wasn't taken very seriously in schools (it was seen as normal teenager behavior), and neither was the behavior of parents (it was just assumed to be acceptable)...and look where the ignoring of all those things has led us...bulletproof windows in new schools, teenage murderers, and entitled students and parents who think they are justified in any behavior. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

[olivegirl]

It is so exhausting, isn't it?

They know what they are doing. 

Mine would feign confusion, try to suck me into the drama triangle, display overt contempt in order to elicit a reaction, utter something so egregiously racist just to see me get triggered.  🥱 It is nonstop infantile behavior.

Since they are Personality disordered, they were becoming energized by all of their antics.

Finally, after going through multiple surgeries and chemo, I decided out of self-care just to go NC.

They knew what they are doing and they enjoy causing me pain. 

No Contact means my energy is no longer being drained.  I fought it for a long time.  Now I wish I went NC sooner!

[Hilltop]

Hey sweet1987. It's tough and confusing. I have had mainly peaceful past few years of contact with my mother because it was text only. There were still things brought up which triggered pain such as them talking about my sister but mainly it was ok. Then she suggested a few phone calls. Lulled into being comfortable I agreed. At first it was ok, I was happy, things were going well. I thought I had found a place that worked for us.  Until well the issues started again. Now I recently went NC.  If its reduced to only being capable of a text only relationship I have opted out. Further to that hearing about their relationship with my sister is simply too painful for me and my mother has not respected my boundaries of not talking about her. Mind you it was hard to enforce boundaries as I felt I was continuously changing subjects, stating how I felt, its exhausting. It was unpleasant.

So in my experience, no they don't change.  I have found it too exhausting to continue. I don't know if she realises what she is doing or if it's intentional. I kept changing my boundaries until I found the option for me.  Its what you can live with and tolerate, not be caused pain by.  I'm also NC for self care reasons, I am simply drained by it.

[NarcKiddo]

They don't change but I completely recognise the desire to think they will. My logical brain knows my mother won't; I think my emotional brain still hopes she might. As she has got older she has realised her old power plays don't work and she has become increasingly waify. She has also got better at appearing to be interested in me. What used to be a monologue on the phone is now a monologue followed by "And what is going on with you, my dear?" It is obviously a tick box exercise as she is spectacularly uninterested in anything I may have to say. That is partly by my design, of course, since I make myself boring. But then every so often she does something truly hurtful out of the blue. It reminds me that she has not changed - but it also annoys me that it still hurts quite so much as it does. I mean, I should know better by now!

[Tribe16]

can anyone relate to this. A parent being almost normal for a long time then dici g straight back into their pd behaviors, maybe that's part of the manipulation too. I just don't know.

I am feeling for you because I have done the same thing. And I start my first therapy appointment (again) in 90 minutes after almost 2 years after I thought I had it all figured out. My uncle passed last year and while things weren't great, somehow this "softened" my mom a little. I allowed myself that same kind of hope that maybe she was capable of being a nice person again. Her true self reappeared and I feel angry at myself - I feel like I knew better. I allowed my guard to go down and reality punched me right between the eyes. Anyhoo, all this ruminating over the past month feels like back to square one. My logical self knows "SHE WILL NEVER CHANGE". My logical self knows she is emotionally immature. My logical self knows this will not end well. So why won't my logical self allow me not to care about someone who clearly has no interest in me? I'm hoping to start sorting this out once and for all today.

I'm so sorry you are going through this because it sucks the joy out of life and I know it hurts. - I know relief is out there but I feel like I'm looking at life through poop-colored glasses and why and for whom? Nobody who deserves it. Tell that to my heart.

[NotCryingGlitter]

I am feeling for you because I have done the same thing. And I start my first therapy appointment (again) in 90 minutes after almost 2 years after I thought I had it all figured out.

What did you learn (that you're ok with sharing) at the appointment? Did they help with the "takes a miracle to change" thoughts?

You can care about and love a person while still hating the abuse/their behavior; that's normal.

[InvisibleDaughter]

My Mom is NPD, so I understand the dynamic. As she ages, she's 69 now I feel like the times she can appear "normal" are less and less.

I'm surprised your Mom even apologized, my Mom would never!

It's very draining dealing with a NPD parent because they are unpredictable. Maybe you get the nice version or maybe the nasty one.

No matter what, please don't blame yourself for how she acts.

[sweet1987]

can anyone relate to this. A parent being almost normal for a long time then dici g straight back into their pd behaviors, maybe that's part of the manipulation too. I just don't know.

I am feeling for you because I have done the same thing. And I start my first therapy appointment (again) in 90 minutes after almost 2 years after I thought I had it all figured out. My uncle passed last year and while things weren't great, somehow this "softened" my mom a little. I allowed myself that same kind of hope that maybe she was capable of being a nice person again. Her true self reappeared and I feel angry at myself - I feel like I knew better. I allowed my guard to go down and reality punched me right between the eyes. Anyhoo, all this ruminating over the past month feels like back to square one. My logical self knows "SHE WILL NEVER CHANGE". My logical self knows she is emotionally immature. My logical self knows this will not end well. So why won't my logical self allow me not to care about someone who clearly has no interest in me? I'm hoping to start sorting this out once and for all today.

I'm so sorry you are going through this because it sucks the joy out of life and I know it hurts. - I know relief is out there but I feel like I'm looking at life through poop-colored glasses and why and for whom? Nobody who deserves it. Tell that to my heart.

Thank you for kind words. And sorry your going through this also. Can definitely relate. It's like an endless loop sometimes. Hugs 🤗

[Tribe16]

What did you learn (that you're ok with sharing) at the appointment? Did they help with the "takes a miracle to change" thoughts?

You can care about and love a person while still hating the abuse/their behavior; that's normal.

First, I apologize for not seeing this and responding over a year later - oops! Since I wrote that, I changed therapists. The last one was nice enough, but after about 5 months I felt like we were spinning wheels, and then when she started telling me about her day, I realized, OK, I'm not willing to pay for this. I recently started seeing a new therapist who is in the same faith as I am - still in the beginning stages, but I like her, and she gives me a lot of homework (seriously, a lot of homework!) and holds me accountable and we discuss and go over it. She's been helpful because I have hang ups from a religious standpoint, and she's made it clear that there's nothing scriptural about accepting abusive treatment from anyone, so even though I have given myself permission a long time ago to withdraw and know that God is not angry with me, it is nice to have someone validate and confirm that.

Also since I last wrote on this thread, much has changed - my Dad passed in March and he was pretty much the last thing Mom and I had in common. In fact we haven't spoken on the phone since the night he passed. I feel like I am not a true "no contact" because while I don't hold hope, I am willing to have a conversation should my mom ever want one. She is the ignoring, ice cold type - and also the type that holds a grudge because I dared to tell her why I have distanced myself, so we are basically no contact. I'm still a "never say never" though, but am realistic about it. I have blocked her on social media due to some hurtful things that happened there; she would still be able to reach me by cell/text or email, but she never reaches out.

My new therapist said that some people have a form of "happiness or satisfaction" by telling themselves they are right and by never backing down. It gives them a feeling of power and self-righteousness that is very soothing to them and they would much rather be in that state of mind than exert themselves by repairing a relationship - that is too much work, and they'd lose that intoxicating "power" feeling. That made a lot more sense to me. It's not something I didn't already know on some level, but the way she explained it as intoxicating to them, just made it more real, that I was always way more attached to Mom than she ever was to me. That is sad of course.

The main thing I'm working on now is short-circuiting negative thought pattern spirals.

[NotCryingGlitter]

What did you learn (that you're ok with sharing) at the appointment? Did they help with the "takes a miracle to change" thoughts?

You can care about and love a person while still hating the abuse/their behavior; that's normal.

First, I apologize for not seeing this and responding over a year later - oops! Since I wrote that, I changed therapists. The last one was nice enough, but after about 5 months I felt like we were spinning wheels, and then when she started telling me about her day, I realized, OK, I'm not willing to pay for this. I recently started seeing a new therapist who is in the same faith as I am - still in the beginning stages, but I like her, and she gives me a lot of homework (seriously, a lot of homework!) and holds me accountable and we discuss and go over it. She's been helpful because I have hang ups from a religious standpoint, and she's made it clear that there's nothing scriptural about accepting abusive treatment from anyone, so even though I have given myself permission a long time ago to withdraw and know that God is not angry with me, it is nice to have someone validate and confirm that.

Also since I last wrote on this thread, much has changed - my Dad passed in March and he was pretty much the last thing Mom and I had in common. In fact we haven't spoken on the phone since the night he passed. I feel like I am not a true "no contact" because while I don't hold hope, I am willing to have a conversation should my mom ever want one. She is the ignoring, ice cold type - and also the type that holds a grudge because I dared to tell her why I have distanced myself, so we are basically no contact. I'm still a "never say never" though, but am realistic about it. I have blocked her on social media due to some hurtful things that happened there; she would still be able to reach me by cell/text or email, but she never reaches out.

My new therapist said that some people have a form of "happiness or satisfaction" by telling themselves they are right and by never backing down. It gives them a feeling of power and self-righteousness that is very soothing to them and they would much rather be in that state of mind than exert themselves by repairing a relationship - that is too much work, and they'd lose that intoxicating "power" feeling. That made a lot more sense to me. It's not something I didn't already know on some level, but the way she explained it as intoxicating to them, just made it more real, that I was always way more attached to Mom than she ever was to me. That is sad of course.

The main thing I'm working on now is short-circuiting negative thought pattern spirals.

I'm sorry for your loss.

I hope things improve for you.

Yeah, the power trip...typical narcissism.