Spiritual advice

[zad7242]

Curious if anyone has received nuggets of wisdom from a spiritual guide/pastor/priest etc, regarding their relationship with a PD loved one? Particularly seeing their situation from a biblical perspective regarding responsibilities to their loved one, obligations to stay in the relationship etc. Thanks!

[square]

Hi zad,

I think the following threads could be helpful to you:

https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=88837.0

https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=88720.0

https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=88822.0

https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=86099.0

[zad7242]

thank you, exactly what I was looking for

[SonofThunder]

I will add that most Christian books I've read on marriage, assume two mentally healthy people.  With a PD in the mix, it was useless for me to turn to those books for advice.

The Bible's advice though was very useful, but I had to boil all the meat in my relationship off the bone in order to analyze the marriage's foundational core. 

From my Christian Bible perspective:

I will advise you to ask yourself two question as a part of your research. If you believe you have/had unbalanced 'caretaking' traits that attracted your PD spouse to you, but through new education and application you are now becoming a balanced person in the 51% rule (link below):

Q1: would your PDspouse have dated/married you if you were then, the person you are/are-becoming today? 

If the answer is "no", then keep that in mind imo as you do your research in the religion realm.  My spouse repeated in anger at me after my toolbox application journey began, "SoT, you are not the same man I married!! " and that is 100% true! 

I am now the man I should have been long before we met, and my stbx would have surely found another man to marry. I would have not been the 'caretaker' she was seeking out to feed on me once she secured me in a marriage contract with the heavy padlocks of two children. My PDw needed me to host her emotions because she could not host her own.  Is that really a 'marriage' as marriage is designed by God?

Q2: Is it wrong to alter a covenant (marriage is not a one-sided promise, but a covenant between two people) if only one person in the covenant is upholding their side of the agreement?

In the Bible, God designs and also dissolves covenants when humanity doesn't comply with what they agreed, but God 100% upholds his promises. Promises are made from one to another and do not require the other to uphold anything. Covenants are a mutual agreement where both parties have obligations or it's not a valid covenant. God designs both covenants and promises along the Biblical timeline.  Covenants and promises are very different animals.

Potential food for thought while you explore and look beyond the meat, down to the bone. Some stay and some depart and it's a personal decision for each of us to make, but it was good for me to dive deep into my own questions before answering that stay/leave question for myself. 

SoT

https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/the-51-rule

[zad7242]

Thank you for the food for thought, SoT!

My wife and I both agree that we ended up in this marriage on dishonest terms and for other wrong reasons based on our wounds. We were long-distance and I did not know she had a substance addiction issue - which surfaced very early in our marriage. My faith tradition, Roman Catholic, looks at civil divorce as a morally neutral act. It can be made into quite an immoral act if done for selfish motives, etc. What becomes so much more important for a Catholic, if they want to remarry, is whether their marriage was valid in the first place - hence the existence and pursuit of annulments. I know an annulment for me would be a layup based on the reasons given above and my and probably her lack of a truly informed free-will decision to marry.

It's remarkable, but we look for signs and I at least ignored them when I wanted to. My first wife who died during our marriage, warned me about not dating someone with BPD. She had largely recovered from the trauma of having an NPD mother herself. Upon receiving her terminal cancer diagnosis, she even enlisted a couple of her girlfriends to help "screen" any ladies I brought home. Well, COVID happened and none of them had the opportunity to give me feedback on my current wife. However, both of her friends texted me shortly before my first date with my wife and asked to consider calling it off. They couldn't name why they had concerns but they just had a "gut feeling." My late wife must have really seen something in me to know I would be susceptible to this kind of relationship.

[SonofThunder]

How very sorry I am zad, that you lost your first wife to cancer. She seemed to know you very well, assisted by her own trauma of being raised by a NPDm. 

Thank you also for discussing the Roman Catholic tradition. There have been very interesting discussions here at Out of the FOG with other Catholic members who have participated. Some of those discussions may be in the links provided by square and if not, searching up the keywords associated with Catholicism may assist you also in locating comrades here who are Roman Catholic, providing more of the "nuggets of wisdom" you seek.

SoT

[zad7242]

Thank you SoT. Have a Merry Christmas!

[SonofThunder]

Thank you SoT. Have a Merry Christmas!

Likewise zad!

SoT

[A Freeman]

Where does self-discipline factor into the analysis please?

We are all supposed to be learning to be less selfish, more thoughtful and understanding, as if our lives depend upon doing so, which they do.

[zad7242]

Hi, A Freeman,

Thanks for joining this thread. I want to respond to your question, but I want to make sure I understand what you mean by your question. Self-discipline on my part (non-PD partner) or our PD partners? I certainly agree 100% with your second statement, that applies regardless of what crosses we bear, physical, psychological or anything in between. Thanks!

[zad7242]

  Very good way to look at it Pig Wrestler. Often easier to want to protect someone we love, versus ourselves.


  The discussion about the use of contraception between my wife and I has become more frequent and intense the last few weeks. She sees me getting a vasectomy as the only hope for our marriage. She told me this morning she is going to get her tubes tied if I won't. Of course, if she does she will hold it over my head forever that she had to take action that I should have a long time ago. I've consulted multiple priests about it and they tell me to hold firm.