Daughter wants help. Should I reply?

[britmac]

My adult daughter (middle-aged) has a very minor disability, a seriously disabled son and a mentally disabled husband who is virtually useless at everything. She has been very needy and dependent, and I have not discouraged that. I've always been there for her - at heavy personal cost. But she has periods of being abusive and lately her verbal abuse has escalated and she has even told me she hopes I suffer hurt in my old age. I had to remove her name from my Power of Attorney documents and insert clauses to ensure I am protected.

After a huge barrage of verbal abuse and telling me she doesn't have a mother anymore, two weeks later she is emailing me asking for help. Most of the email is her typical ongoing rant about how hard her life is and whining about things I can't do anything about, but she has asked for advice about something that I can help with. And she has said her family will visit on Sunday (Father's Day in Australia) but at THEIR convenience because her child wants to celebrate the day with just the three of them. No consideration for OUR plans! We are just expected to be here when it suits her to visit, with no prior notice or arrangement. (We actually did have plans of our own!)

I don't know how to answer. I feel inclined to just ignore her, because I feel so used and abused and I'm over it. But she is my child and on the other hand I feel we owe our children unconditional love. She IS needy. But she never considers me or my husband at all.

[SonofThunder]

Hi britmac,

Your situation sounds difficult and i'm sorry it is occurring for you. I have two thoughts.

1. If this was not your daughter, but a similar middle-aged lady who lives near you, treating you and your husband the same way, would you assist?

2. You state you believe that parents owe their children unconditional love.  I believe love is not love if it's conditional, as true love seeks what is best for oneself and others. Imo all people should experience & offer love that is not based on what is received.  I will love myself 1% more than I will love anyone else on the planet (51% rule below). Therefore "no" may actually be what is best and the most loving response for all parties involved, no matter the opinion of the one who is asking for assistance. In your situation, "no" may also be the spark that enables your daughter to experience the love and boundaries you have for yourself and your husband. 

https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/the-51-rule

SoT

[notrightinthehead]

I can relate to the conflict - on the one side wanting to show unconditional love and on the other side feeling taking advantage of and needing to protect your own rights. I cannot tell you what to do, I can only tell you how I resolve such conflict myself. In my case if I give in to others and do what obligation tells me to do, I feel resentment at the same time. And sometimes angry and sad too.

I therefore have decided that I will not allow others to steamroll over me. If I have plans before, I will stick to those. Others have to fit in with my plans. Especially others who disrespect me and hurl abuse at me. And I do not allow myself to be yelled at or abused. The moment someone hurls insults at me, I remove myself from the situation. I do not engage with such people.

People who are needy can be exhausting. But it's my choice how much I get involved. I cannot change their neediness, but I can change my own inner unhealthy need to jump in and solve their problems. Since I learned to take a step back, show sympathy and then express full confidence that they will find a solution, my life has become more manageable.

Good luck to you!

[bloomie]

britmac - there was a time in my own journey where I had to figure out what love actually looks like. What I believed about unconditional love was grounded in years of misunderstanding unconditional love to be equal to not holding space for myself with an opportunistic, sometimes abusive loved one.

I was operating out of fear of losing someone and in the midst I lost myself. 

What I have learned the very hard way is that not having appropriate responses to inappropriate behaviors toward me and demands of me is self abandonment, and allowing these types of behaviors toward me and going along with this gives the relationship I am abandoning myself to preserve, the worst possible chance of ongoing connection.

The best possible chance you may have to come fully out of the fear, obligation and guilt is to figure out what does and does not work for you in all of this and move determinedly in that direction. Having limits, boundaries around your time and resources, is the bedrock of healthy relationships. And it is what love looks like. For yourself and others.

You are here because you most likely are at, or have reached, a saturation point with the unhealthy dynamic between you and your daughter. Stay with yourself and put on your own oxygen mask first in what you describe as an unsafe relationship and proceed with caution is my very best thoughts.

[Rebel13]

Lots of great advice and support here, as always! I just wanted to chime in to say, children deserve unconditional love AS children. When we become adults, we are responsible for our own behavior, and we do not love other adults unconditionally or need other adults to love us unconditionally. I have expectations in my relationship with my partner, that she will treat me with basic respect, even when she feels unhappy, disagrees with me, etc. If she did not do that, it would be hard to feel love for her! I've never been able to understand what exactly is lovable about an adult who treats other adults with disrespect and contempt, who subjects others to temper tantrums, constant conflict, negativity, or other kinds of unpleasant and abusive behavior, and makes no attempt to make amends. Like bloomie said, it is possible to set boundaries and have behavioral expectations without withdrawing love. We all get to care for ourselves and make decisions about how we spend our time, and who with, based on our experience and needs.

I think it would be perfectly fine to not respond, if you don't want to. If you do, you could let your daughter know what time you will be available on Father's Day, and if unfortunately your schedules conflict, you would be sorry to miss them but would hope to make plans another time. If you do have a visit, you can see how that goes and make decisions about future visits with that experience in mind.

[Call Me Cordelia]

My take on unconditional love is a little different. Parents do owe their children unconditional love, at any age, but they don't owe unconditional access to the parents' resources. The children's level of entitlement steadily decreases as they reach independence. I agree that the most loving answer can be, "No."

[Lookin 2 B Free]

Hi, Britmac.  As far as having a relationship with an adult child with a disability:  I have found it helpful, if that disability leaves the daughter unable to mentally or emotionally process as an adult, to view their behavior as I would a child's and respond that way.  That adult is still a dependent to some degree and life with a disability is hard, scary, embarrassing and frustrating. When that's directed at me (maybe the only safe person to let down their guard with), I'm pretty good at not taking it personally.  Like NRITH, I give one warning and leave ... (the room,  hang up the phone, etc).  I  don't allow myself to be abused.  Then I don't build up resentment and I can turn right around and provide help needed. Maybe like you would with a 14 YO.  That's been my experience.

[Rebel13]

ChumpLady has reposted a great piece on unconditional love today. She talks about it in the context of infidelity but also gives a parent-child example.

https://www.chumplady.com/the-fiction-of-unconditional-love/

[JellyJam333]

Wow, do I relate in the sense that I know there are many times I need to stay disconnected or not help or withdraw in some aspect, but I just can't seem to do it...

I feel the same to you as it's my responsibility or obligation or duty, and I have a really intense primal drive and pole to fulfil needs to my daughter and children

I am Amir shell of who I used to be, battered inside... Destroyed really.

And yet I keep signing up for more. It's a primal animalistic force that makes me do these things as a mom. The pain of saying no it's far greater than the pain. I know all experience once she's got her needs satisfied and decides to wipe her butt with me again.

Thanks for sharing!

[SonofThunder]

The pain of saying no it's far greater than the pain. I know all experience once she's got her needs satisfied and decides to wipe her butt with me again

JellyJam333,

I will assume you are utilizing speech to text, and the sentences I singled out above are possibly one sentence of:

"The pain of saying no is far greater than the pain I know i'll experience once she's got her needs satisfied and decides to wipe her butt with me again".

*If I am not correct in that re-write, please correct me.

I want to comment on the potential rewritten sentence above.  I have two disordered people in my life. My father and my soon-to-be ex-wife (stbxw).

I became aware of and then educated myself in personality disorders, enough to understand what I was experiencing and how better to protect myself.  But, I still had a large problem; myself.

Following the tools in the toolbox tab above is a matter of educating myself on the tools, but then practicing/honing my skills in their use.  I failed miserably at the front end and progressively became more proficient. 

If you are not familiar with the term 'caretaker' as defined in the wonderful book 'Stop Caretaking the Borderline & Narcisist' by Fjelstad, I highly recommend the read.  I was my own worst enemy because I had become a master caretaker to my father and wife to avoid conflict and keep any sense of peace, but I normalized caretaking behaviors and therefore was caretaking EVERYONE......except myself.

Ive written about it here on Out of the FOG before, but the oxygen mask analogy on commercial airline flights is imo a great visual of the 51% rule in the toolbox tab above (link again below) and also applies to caretaking.

https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/the-51-rule

That rule is the opposite of caretaking. In caretaking behaviors, when the masks drop from the overhead compartment, we take the masks and place them on others, but we forget to claim one for ourselves, or to even share one in a healthy manner.  The instructions are presented properly by the flight attendants to put the mask on ourselves first and then assist others who may not have the ability or calmness in the situation to assist themselves.  When we fail to do that properly, everyone suffers because we fail to care for ourselves. 

My experience in removing my caretaking traits by saying "no" to my disordered people and "yes" to myself within the 51% rule was at first very tumultuous for both them and me, but continuing to stick to my goals saw a change in everyone. I became mentally healthier and energized because of the oxygen mask now being on my face, and the PD's initial outward anger eventually turned to manipulative attempts to punish me for quietly changing myself.

The good part about their changeover from initial outward anger is that the other tools in the toolbox, assist me in self-protecting from the manipulation. Then my PD's began having their manipulative attempts to cause me pain thwarted by my boundaries and other toolbox tools used.  All the while, Im now wearing my oxygen mask.

Back to your sentence, which also ties back to the op's (original post) quandary with an adult child; at first the good focus on our own mental and physical health can be a painful experience for us, but in my experiences (ime), that pain is steadily converted to progressing victories.  All the while, my PD's were steadily learning that to not gasp for air, they had to reach up and take hold of their own mask, vs relying on me. 

I encourage you to steel your backbone, thicken your skin, educate yourself on caretaking and study the toolbox tools (link at bottom). At the same time, start putting on your own oxygen mask and creating a grand strategy as well as tactics to achieve those strategic self-improvement and self-protective goals and press forward!  It will surely be difficult to watch an adult child gasp for air, but they will have to find their own mask. It is there for them somewhere and THEY must find it themselves.  Imo and Ime, saying "no" actually assists your difficult people to stop using you to "wipe her butt", because you will not be providing yourself to be used in that way again. 

SoT

https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-1

[Rebel13]

Another article I just found that talks a little bit about the difference between affection/love and approval in childrearing.

https://counsellingresource.com/features/2014/04/28/affection-approval-character/

(As someone who was raised by affection-impaired manipulative parents I wish there were more concrete examples in there of how to express disapproval without withholding affection!)