Slip ups

walking on broken glass · April 15, 2025, 06:02:03 AM

I talked to my mum yesterday. She had her 5th round of chemo a week ago and I had called her on that day and then took a little break from contact for six days or so - and of course she never gets in touch herself. She said the usual about the side effects she is experiencing, then she mentioned how she has several things to take care of but she doesn't feel strong enough to go out. I said well if they are not urgent, it can wait. Apparently the internet provider in the holiday home got in touch with her to ask if she wants to renew or cancel the contract, as the current one is expiring. She knows very well how complicated it is to cancel the contract and then get the process started again with the same or another company (she has already done it once for her permanent residence and was complaining non stop about how useless and bureaucratic they were), nevertheless she is considering doing it again. I said to her maybe you can just renew the contract for now so that you don't have to deal with all this. I regretted it as soon as I said it because why should I give my input on this? Also I can tell that she prefers to cancel it. She said 'I was told that it would make sense to cancel it since I don't go to the family home that much'. The invisible agent here ('I was told') is of course my sister. So now I know that this whole conversation will be repeated to my sister and who knows what she is going to say about all this. That perhaps I want to use the holiday home myself and I want to burden my mum with the internet bills.

Aaaargh it's so hard having a conversation without offering any thoughts or comments on anything. I have to remind myself that they are not my friends and anything I say will be used against me. What really bothers me is that I detect the same pattern I used to have with my sis, when we were still in touch. I would put off calling her and then I would feel guilty and would compensate, doing things out of FOG, such as staying longer in the conversation than I had planned. With my mum, I have caught myself thinking that I should videocall her (this had been our default mode of communication but recently I switched to phone conversations mostly) because it's been a while since I had last called her, and I know she prefers video calls. I know I shouldn't be doing things I don't want to do, but, in the same way as with my sister, this would actually mean not being in touch at all, except for getting information about her health. Is the only way to be Out of the FOG not to have contact with them?

moglow · April 15, 2025, 09:07:44 AM

Idea for her: if you're not to have input or comment and your thoughts and opinions are of no value, don't bring it up at all.

For YOU (unless/until you decide no contact is your best option): I suggest what I call grocery store check out line conversation - the lovely (or ugly) weather. Azaleas are blooming. What's for dinner. Random funny story you heard. Basically Limit your personal exposure - if you talk multiple days a week, back it up to once and keep that call short.

Rebel13 · April 15, 2025, 10:54:32 AM

I'm really sorry. This sounds so frustrating for you. Two things that're helping me a little bit with conflicts like this:

1. Framing what I'm doing as my choice, with awareness. "I'll go to lunch with X this time, even though I'd prefer not to, because Y." Sometimes it's just too hard to get that "no" out, even when I know it's what I'd really prefer, but the presumed consequences just seem too daunting. This way at least I acknowledge my feelings AND my reasoning (if flawed) about it rather than trying to talk myself out of them.

2. Making it time limited. "I'm doing this this time," or "Right now I'm choosing to handle this situation this way," leaves the door open for me to make a different choice next time.

On a side note, I did go to lunch with someone recently, despite a few red flags and a gut feeling it wasn't the right choice for me, and my gut was right. However, I learned SO MUCH from hanging in with myself through the experience -- it was horribly unpleasant and disheartening to sit there feeling like I could have been anyone as the other person went on and on about themselves. It's no wonder we have trouble prioritizing ourselves in the face of so many messages that we don't matter.

TimetoHeal · April 15, 2025, 01:48:54 PM

Oh, gosh, do I get it, WOBG! I am right there with you. I hate when I talk to my mom more than about 30 seconds, because it is SO hard not to give an opinion or advice about something, trying to help, like a normal person does. Which is then promptly met with an excuse not to do it or why it was wrong. It is such a trap.

I honestly don't have great advice for you since I haven't figured it out myself yet. It's why NC looks more and more appealing every day. But it's hard to make that decision with an elderly, sick parent. I get it.

Lots of empathy here.

TimetoHeal · April 15, 2025, 01:50:07 PM

Quote from: moglow on April 15, 2025, 09:07:44 AMIdea for her: if you're not to have input or comment and your thoughts and opinions are of no value, don't bring it up at all.

For YOU (unless/until you decide no contact is your best option): I suggest what I call grocery store check out line conversation - the lovely (or ugly) weather. Azaleas are blooming. What's for dinner. Random funny story you heard. Basically Limit your personal exposure - if you talk multiple days a week, back it up to once and keep that call short.

This is EXCELLENT advice. Adopting for myself too!

moglow · April 15, 2025, 02:17:31 PM

@TimetoHeal I had to learn to live my boundaries, without apology or explanation. All mommie dearest was interested in was herself and her opinions [which because truth to her, all evidence to the contrary] and I got tired of trying to be a voice of reason. Now, she gets what she gets, in ever decreasing quantities. I have to remind myself that we really do get what we pay for, and this is all on her.

walking on broken glass · April 15, 2025, 03:12:47 PM

Moglow, Revel and Time to heal, thank you all so much for the words of encouragement and the advice!

It's funny, moglow, how the topics you mention are precisely the ones I recycle in my conversations with mum: the weather, dinner (end of my input) and then she talks about her medical problems and relatives. This would always be our repertoire, even before the recent incident. And it was awkward but it didn't bother me that much because I just thought well, this is how she is as a person, but I didn't feel I had to hide harmless details of my life from her. Now that I know how everything I mention is dissected, I have to remind myself not to share stuff. It is sad and oppressive but I can't go back to 'normal' after what happened. Normal, whatever that was, has gone out the window.

moglow · April 15, 2025, 04:25:11 PM

I hate that for you, Walking, even if it is somewhat freeing to no longer pretend even to yourself. With mine [as you kind of indicated] even what I'm cooking or shopping for dinner can be a minefield of "You never cook for ME!" or "It would be nice if you thought of me when you're shopping, maybe I need something too ..." So I might mention a memory of an old friend of mine who she doesn't know or her liking for hummingbirds, searching for anything that doesn't trigger bad memories. Like i said though, it's a minefield and you never know what'll set her off. So I keep it simple and brief.