Saw the smear campaign live

[mary_poppins]

It is unbelievable to me that my narcissistic mother dared to smear me in front of my brother while in the same house with me. So my mother is sick and has been in bed for two days (with the flu) and I've been running errands for her and buying her meds because there's no one else that could do that.

Anyway, one of my brothers stops by and gets worried that she is sick. She then says that she needs to go buy medicine on her own because no one else could do it    So, he then ran errands for her even though I've already done that (and would probably need to do it for a few days this week).

She instantly turns into the helpless victim once my brother visits. I saw that when he left, she got out of the bed and was energetic and did stuff around the house (her illness has suddenly disappeared?) So now my brother thinks I didn't help my mother with the flu because..(insert reason here). She would lie and missrepresent the reality JUST TO SUIT HER OWN SICK PURPOSE.

No wonder me an my brother don't have a relationship. It's obvious why. Sometimes I want to become a fly on the wall when narcissistic mother has dinner with my brother to listen to what she says about me. These people are sick and the only way to deal with them is by not engaging and not talking to them.

[moglow]

I figured out a while back that whatever mother says to me about others, she's also saying ABOUT me to them/others. I saw it play over and over again all my life, but it took me a good while to really see it for what it is. She has an uncanny ability to see those vulnerabilities in people while at the same time cancelling them out altogether. Complete and total lack of empathy but she still plays people on her level.

[JR]

narcs behave differently in front of other people than they treat you, i too have been treated the exact same way you have and it truly is narcs trying to smear and demean you in front of others so they get a upper hand on you making others falsely believe your bad, bad to them, dumb, irresponsible, lazy, etc. and people will actually drink the coolaid and believe it, or at least ponder the possibilities that its all true judge you accordingly to what the narc tells them, win for the narc, these tactics are meant to upset you and get you to go off on them which is narcissistic supply which they use to regulate themselves, these people are very emotionally disturbed and want to purposely upset their targets. remember no good deed(helping them) goes unpunished. its easy to say but stay the heck away from them and their enablers and flying monkeys even if they are family as much as possible.

[mary_poppins]

narcs behave differently in front of other people than they treat you, i too have been treated the exact same way you have and it truly is narcs trying to smear and demean you in front of others so they get a upper hand on you making others falsely believe your bad, bad to them, dumb, irresponsible, lazy, etc. and people will actually drink the coolaid and believe it, or at least ponder the possibilities that its all true judge you accordingly to what the narc tells them, win for the narc, these tactics are meant to upset you and get you to go off on them which is narcissistic supply which they use to regulate themselves, these people are very emotionally disturbed and want to purposely upset their targets. remember no good deed(helping them) goes unpunished. its easy to say but stay the heck away from them and their enablers and flying monkeys even if they are family as much as possible.

No good deed goes unpunished. Yes, this is definitely true. I will slowly go VLC with them and then hopefully, when ready, go NC. It's very upsetting anyway to witness the smear campaign and deceit..

[JR]

narcs behave differently in front of other people than they treat you, i too have been treated the exact same way you have and it truly is narcs trying to smear and demean you in front of others so they get a upper hand on you making others falsely believe your bad, bad to them, dumb, irresponsible, lazy, etc. and people will actually drink the coolaid and believe it, or at least ponder the possibilities that its all true judge you accordingly to what the narc tells them, win for the narc, these tactics are meant to upset you and get you to go off on them which is narcissistic supply which they use to regulate themselves, these people are very emotionally disturbed and want to purposely upset their targets. remember no good deed(helping them) goes unpunished. its easy to say but stay the heck away from them and their enablers and flying monkeys even if they are family as much as possible.

No good deed goes unpunished. Yes, this is definitely true. I will slowly go VLC with them and then hopefully, when ready, go NC. It's very upsetting anyway to witness the smear campaign and deceit..

im about to get a smear campaign on me from my family very similar to your issues, there was a slight mixup with dropping off my narc mother at my narc sisters house so they could go to the hospital to visit my narc brother who's had a stroke(his own doing) i was sent a text by my sis saying not to bring her to her house(which i never read, I dont live on my phone checking every ten seconds for messages and took her to the narc sis's house) then she called me up on the phone(not a text) and ripped me a new one when i told her i could not turn around to get her now cause i had a previous engagement i had to get to i dont have the time to, these narcs cannot anything that messes up their peter pan narratives, and will lash out when any little thing doesnt go their way. im trying to stay away from this toxic family as much as possible. you really cannot deal with narcs cause they are constantly on the prowl to start a fight with someone over ridiculous reasons just to blow up everyones peace.

[mary_poppins]

I figured out a while back that whatever mother says to me about others, she's also saying ABOUT me to them/others. I saw it play over and over again all my life, but it took me a good while to really see it for what it is. She has an uncanny ability to see those vulnerabilities in people while at the same time cancelling them out altogether. Complete and total lack of empathy but she still plays people on her level.

Hey, moglow.

I thought about your answer a lot and realised this is 100% true. I overheard my PD mom call me exactly the same way she would call her relatives that went no contact with her. She'd complain about her sister to me calling her stupid, irresponsible, an idiot but I think she thinks the same things apply to me.
These people don't have anything good to say about anyone. Must be a nightmare to live in their bodies. Yikes!

[mary_poppins]

narcs behave differently in front of other people than they treat you, i too have been treated the exact same way you have and it truly is narcs trying to smear and demean you in front of others so they get a upper hand on you making others falsely believe your bad, bad to them, dumb, irresponsible, lazy, etc. and people will actually drink the coolaid and believe it, or at least ponder the possibilities that its all true judge you accordingly to what the narc tells them, win for the narc, these tactics are meant to upset you and get you to go off on them which is narcissistic supply which they use to regulate themselves, these people are very emotionally disturbed and want to purposely upset their targets. remember no good deed(helping them) goes unpunished. its easy to say but stay the heck away from them and their enablers and flying monkeys even if they are family as much as possible.

No good deed goes unpunished. Yes, this is definitely true. I will slowly go VLC with them and then hopefully, when ready, go NC. It's very upsetting anyway to witness the smear campaign and deceit..

im about to get a smear campaign on me from my family very similar to your issues, there was a slight mixup with dropping off my narc mother at my narc sisters house so they could go to the hospital to visit my narc brother who's had a stroke(his own doing) i was sent a text by my sis saying not to bring her to her house(which i never read, I dont live on my phone checking every ten seconds for messages and took her to the narc sis's house) then she called me up on the phone(not a text) and ripped me a new one when i told her i could not turn around to get her now cause i had a previous engagement i had to get to i dont have the time to, these narcs cannot anything that messes up their peter pan narratives, and will lash out when any little thing doesnt go their way. im trying to stay away from this toxic family as much as possible. you really cannot deal with narcs cause they are constantly on the prowl to start a fight with someone over ridiculous reasons just to blow up everyones peace.

Yes, you can't deal with these narcs for the reasons you suggested. There's no way a normal person knows when they may explode, start a fight, become moody and triggered and lash out on you. Better cut them off & live unbothered. I'll have zero guilt when I'll cut them off. They deserve to be left behind.

[Liketheducks]

Same here.   My mom has us all on a revolving drama triangle merry-go-round.   She's always the victim, and the rest of us are cycle between persecutor and rescuer.   It has been that way all of my life.   When one of us is persecutor, she will utterly trash that person to anyone who will listen.   Total persona non grata.   She bonds with people over trashing that person.   Until she finds someone else who has wronged her in some way.   

It is so disturbing to watch.   I've also learned long ago that if she talks bad about someone to me, she will eventually talk bad about me to others.    She doesn't see it at all. She completely feels justified in her condemnation of the "villain" in her story.  Not at all aware of what seems so painfully obvious from the outside.   I know that we all have faults.   No one is perfect.   We all have blind spots.   But, watching this cycle for decades now....it just is sad.   I often wonder where she got it from.   

It doesn't matter if that villain is a grandchild, child, friend, distant relative.   She will suddenly go cold and snarky with them.   

[JR]

narcs behave differently in front of other people than they treat you, i too have been treated the exact same way you have and it truly is narcs trying to smear and demean you in front of others so they get a upper hand on you making others falsely believe your bad, bad to them, dumb, irresponsible, lazy, etc. and people will actually drink the coolaid and believe it, or at least ponder the possibilities that its all true judge you accordingly to what the narc tells them, win for the narc, these tactics are meant to upset you and get you to go off on them which is narcissistic supply which they use to regulate themselves, these people are very emotionally disturbed and want to purposely upset their targets. remember no good deed(helping them) goes unpunished. its easy to say but stay the heck away from them and their enablers and flying monkeys even if they are family as much as possible.

No good deed goes unpunished. Yes, this is definitely true. I will slowly go VLC with them and then hopefully, when ready, go NC. It's very upsetting anyway to witness the smear campaign and deceit..

im about to get a smear campaign on me from my family very similar to your issues, there was a slight mixup with dropping off my narc mother at my narc sisters house so they could go to the hospital to visit my narc brother who's had a stroke(his own doing) i was sent a text by my sis saying not to bring her to her house(which i never read, I dont live on my phone checking every ten seconds for messages and took her to the narc sis's house) then she called me up on the phone(not a text) and ripped me a new one when i told her i could not turn around to get her now cause i had a previous engagement i had to get to i dont have the time to, these narcs cannot anything that messes up their peter pan narratives, and will lash out when any little thing doesnt go their way. im trying to stay away from this toxic family as much as possible. you really cannot deal with narcs cause they are constantly on the prowl to start a fight with someone over ridiculous reasons just to blow up everyones peace.

Yes, you can't deal with these narcs for the reasons you suggested. There's no way a normal person knows when they may explode, start a fight, become moody and triggered and lash out on you. Better cut them off & live unbothered. I'll have zero guilt when I'll cut them off. They deserve to be left behind.

Same here.   My mom has us all on a revolving drama triangle merry-go-round.   She's always the victim, and the rest of us are cycle between persecutor and rescuer.   It has been that way all of my life.   When one of us is persecutor, she will utterly trash that person to anyone who will listen.   Total persona non grata.   She bonds with people over trashing that person.   Until she finds someone else who has wronged her in some way.   

It is so disturbing to watch.   I've also learned long ago that if she talks bad about someone to me, she will eventually talk bad about me to others.    She doesn't see it at all. She completely feels justified in her condemnation of the "villain" in her story.  Not at all aware of what seems so painfully obvious from the outside.   I know that we all have faults.   No one is perfect.   We all have blind spots.   But, watching this cycle for decades now....it just is sad.   I often wonder where she got it from.   

It doesn't matter if that villain is a grandchild, child, friend, distant relative.   She will suddenly go cold and snarky with them.   

my experiences dealing with these people is so much like what your dealing with exactly, i could always understand what your dealing with and what your saying cause most of what you've experienced has and is happening to me at this very moment. my main question would be if these narcs are professionally diagnosed with being a NPD narcissist on a extreme spectrum level what can the psychiatrist/psychologist community do with them are far as treatment/meds? i only wish there were more support/groups dealing with this, i could only get relief talking to people who've themselves are or had these horrible relationships with narcs.

[mary_poppins]

@JR

It's funny that you mentioned treatment for NPDs because I was just thinking about it these days. What would the treatment for NPD be like?
I have watched many of Sam Vaknin's videos who is a diagnosed NPD and a great teacher in this disorder (he also knows BPD quite well). He says the best treatment course for NPDs is 'cold therapy'. I'm not sure if he is offering treatment to his clients or not but I trust his word and advice since he has provided the best information on NPD abuse in the community. There's one video where he talks about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh_gifvRh50

[mary_poppins]

And btw, I don't want to suggest that NPD is treatable and if my mom got this therapy would heal. My mom's NPD is so severe that even the mention of therapy, meds or 'help' triggers her and sets her off. Suggesting mom she needs help is very offensive and she may react with aggression to it.
BUT, there are some forms of NPDs that may be treatable. I'm not a therapist so pls take everything I say with a grain of salt.

[JR]

@JR

It's funny that you mentioned treatment for NPDs because I was just thinking about it these days. What would the treatment for NPD be like?
I have watched many of Sam Vaknin's videos who is a diagnosed NPD and a great teacher in this disorder (he also knows BPD quite well). He says the best treatment course for NPDs is 'cold therapy'. I'm not sure if he is offering treatment to his clients or not but I trust his word and advice since he has provided the best information on NPD abuse in the community. There's one video where he talks about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh_gifvRh50

And btw, I don't want to suggest that NPD is treatable and if my mom got this therapy would heal. My mom's NPD is so severe that even the mention of therapy, meds or 'help' triggers her and sets her off. Suggesting mom she needs help is very offensive and she may react with aggression to it.
BUT, there are some forms of NPDs that may be treatable. I'm not a therapist so pls take everything I say with a grain of salt.

the first thing is that narcs dont think they have a problem, its everyone else that cause/make them behave badly   my narc mother sees a therapist for depression or when theres a massive stressfull issue arises AKA stroked out golden child narc brother at the moment, so im not sure whether the psychiatrist has seen or knows of the narc behavior cause as we all know they behave differently around other people than how they do us AKA (the narc mask) real diagnosis's for this seem seem to me to be far off to do any good for victims of this abuse cause most normal people have no idea or believe what the victims are talking about, like, isnt a narcissist someone to stands in front of the mirror too much in love with themselves? hell nooooo

[Tribe16]

My mom's NPD is so severe that even the mention of therapy, meds or 'help' triggers her and sets her off. Suggesting mom she needs help is very offensive and she may react with aggression to it.

Once I gingerly suggested a therapist could be of value to her during one of her rageful meltdowns, she shrieked at me that "You're the one with the major self-esteem problem! I don't need therapy!"

How I wished then that I would have asked her, "Where do you think my 'major self-esteem problem' came from?" but I just froze first, fawned second. I don't put myself in those situations any longer.

[moglow]

@JR "my main question would be if these narcs are professionally diagnosed with being a NPD narcissist on a extreme spectrum level what can the psychiatrist/psychologist community do with them are far as treatment/meds? i only wish there were more support/groups dealing with this, i could only get relief talking to people who've themselves are or had these horrible relationships with narcs."

Okay I'll play - knowing what youve experienced with the pwNPD in your life, how do you see them getting (and acknowledging) any diagnosis, much less finding and actively pursuing treatment for same? [/size]

My mother is *presumed* N/BPD, due to her complete inability to look at herself. Self involved as she is, any negative (or less than positive) behavior on her part is quickly attributed to others. There's a whole heap of fault finding and blame shifting, redirecting to any and everyone but herself. She'll gladly accept accolades, while rarely accepting personal responsibility where she falls short. No recognition that we ALL fall short, but for her there's no balance. She's very much good/bad, black/white, all/nothing thinking, has been that way all my life.[/size]

No, I don't personally believe there is a "cure" for NPD, but I do know of a few with BPD who worked hard to manage their behavior.

[Liketheducks]

I just posted about a niece who was diagnosed with BPD.   She's started medication and DBT just last week.   She's absolutely thrilled to get answers about her difficulties.    I think it is treatable.   There is also a NPD content creator on TikTok who posts videos about his journey with therapy and fully owns some of the really heinous things he did to the people in his life.   And...then there is my mother, who has gone to therapy and got absolutely nothing out of it....other than the take away that she's perfect and everyone else has issues...and devours self-help books like they're candy...finding validation in EVERY one of them.

I don't think there is a cure for this.   That being said, I really hesitate to paint all individuals that we here perceive as having a PD with the same brush.   While I get a lot of solace and advice here...and certainly validation about my FOO and the patterns of behavior....I think it is really easy for us here to get black and white with the people who drive us to visit this forum.   I know it took me a very long time to get to the point where I could have some empathy for my parents.   That empathy doesn't mean I have to accept their behavior, but I can see now that they have done what they could with what they were dealt.

I think much of our difficulties with those we perceive with PD issues in this forum...are greatly, greatly diminished as we heal ourselves.  After all, you really only have control over yourself.  At least that is the case for me.   I'm so very grateful for that.